Best value for each category of reloading tool?

[McJerkins]

Hello. I am going to be purchasing tools for reloading 6.5cm within the next few weeks and will be reloading for casual PRS along with reloading some hunting cartridges. The only tool I have already decided on is the Forster Co-Ax for my first press. I have tried to do a lot of research, but it seems difficult to find honest/unbiased reviews and opinions of most reloading equipment. Never been the one to just go buy the most expensive, or least expensive, of anything unless I did proper research to make sure I actually want and need that item. If the best-in-category is only a little better but 2x as expensive as next-best option, that's not what I'm looking for. If there is a tool where you feel no expense should be spared, let us know why you feel that way and how much easier it makes your job (but also include the next-best alternative please). I want to buy all the proper items the first time around... I'm not trying to cheap out on this stuff, but not trying to spend $3000 either. What would you consider to be the best value in each of these tool categories?

UPDATED VVVVVVV

Press - Initially decided on Co-Ax, but now considering MEC Marksman
Dies - ?
Priming Tool - Frankford Arsenal Perfect Seat
Powder Measure - ?
Case Trimming - LE Wilson Micrometer Trimmer or Giraud Tri-Way
Brass Cleaning Tools - Berry's Tumbler and Frankford Arsenal Media Seperator
Case Lube - Making my own with Iso Alcohol/Lanolin, but Hornady Unique costs less than $1 per oz... Neither are expensive.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Honestly, the higher priced components are usually the best. Even if it's just for the quality of life upgrade.

One of the best examples is the Primal Rights Primer Seater. Yes, it's $600 for a priming tool.....but once you use it you realize just the ease/comfort makes it worth every penny.

-Sizing Dies - SAC. Not as expensive as something like area419, but work very well with lots of shoulder options.
-Seating Dies - I'm actually faster with an arbor press. If only using a couple cartridges, Wilson chamber seating dies. If many, the SAC infinity die. $800 total for all the bases and the die seems like a lot, but you can now seat basically every cartridge created.
-Priming tool - Primal Rights hands down
-Powder measure - The upcoming ingenuity. Or an Autotrickler V3 paired with Ingenuity trickler. A Matchmaster is also acceptable
-Case Trimming - for speed, Henderson. For absolute best result, Giraud. The Henderson uses pilots. Sometimes you can scratch the inside of your necks.
-Brass cleaning - pretty much anything works

 

[McJerkins]

@Rio Precision Gunworks Thanks for the info. I saw that primer seater yesterday and then I saw the price. It was a little staggering after seeing options ranging from $30 for hand seater to $150ish for the Forster and RCBS priming tools, then stumbling upon that $600 tool while reading the Ultimate Reloader article. That is definitely the type of thing I would consider purchasing after first proving to myself that reloading is a hobby I really enjoy, but not something I would be willing to buy starting off. I have not yet suffered enough to convince myself to buy that thing. lol

 

[hafejd30]

Press - Already decided on Forster Co-Ax
Dies - ?
Priming Tool - ?
Powder Measure - ?
Case Trimming - ?
Brass Cleaning Tools - ?
Case Lube - Making my own with Iso Alcohol/Lanolin

Dies: Lee collet/Redding body/Redding seater
Priming tool: RCBS
Powder Measure: RCBS 1500 combo
Case Trimmer: RCBS
Brass cleaner: decent tumbler and rcbs case prep center

I’ve used this combo for 15+ years with excellent results

 

[McJerkins]

@hafejd30 I initially considered the RCBS Rock Chucker prior to deciding on the Co-Ax, so I'm not against the RCBS stuff. I think I may have decided to start with the Hornady Auto Charge Pro for the powder measure and potentially upgrade to a more precise measuring tool as my shooting skills progress.

You're referencing the RCBS Bench-mounted priming tool right?

 

[hafejd30]

@hafejd30 I initially considered the RCBS Rock Chucker prior to deciding on the Co-Ax, so I'm not against the RCBS stuff. I think I may have decided to start with the Hornady Auto Charge Pro for the powder measure and potentially upgrade to a more precise measuring tool as my shooting skills progress.

You're referencing the RCBS Bench-mounted priming tool right?

No the hand primer. I have one set up for small primers the other for large. The newer ones may be universal I’m not sure

I’ve also been using the rock chucker since I started reloading

I also run a bench source annealer

You don’t need to spend top dollar to get great results. You’ll find many guys on here who load just as well on their coax or rock chucker as they do on their 419. Same for everything else. Some stuff is a luxury but some like die quality and tools that make it more efficient in general pay off

Start with quality brass like Lapua and you’ll save yourself headaches down the road

 

[McJerkins]

@hafejd30 Ah I see. Apparently Erik Cortina was using that annealer, or one similar, for a very long time until the AMP came out. I guessed it cost $2k when I saw the AMP... $1600, close enough. Super cool though.

I understand the benefit of annealing the case but not sure if an annealer is something I would buy from the start.

I have a bunch of Norma 6.5 factory ammo I need to shoot so I was going to use that brass first, but also bought about 10 different boxes of factory ammo to see what the gun likes - maybe I can get ideas on where to start using data from factory loads.

 

[iceng]

You need to weigh up speed VS consistency.

You may have the most consistent ammo over 100 loaded rounds, but if it takes you 10mins per round, you will be dead before you enjoy shooting it.

If you can make ammo once per second, but its only as good as factory,.. then juat buy factory.

Hand loading IS NOT CHEAPER. Handloading is like buying top shelf ammo when its on special or in bulk. THATS the benefit. Consistent top shelf ammo.

You have a co-ax.. start with redding type-s dies, and anhalf decent digital scale. Hornady, rcbs, lyman, whatever. See if you even enjoy doing it.

As you start loading, you realise the priming part is fruatrating you. So buy a gucci primer. Then thats sorted. Then you look into seating, or whatever.

Build up gradually. I get you wanna drop coin on top end gear, but i promise you, IT WONT MAKE YOU A BETTER RELOADER.

Reloading is different. I do it one way, you will do it another, and @308pirate does it naked. We all have our styles.

Learn yours by slowly building up. By please, for everyones sake. Wear clothes.

 

[308pirate]

Reloading is different. I do it one way, you will do it another, and @308pirate does it naked. We all have our styles.

Learn yours by slowly building up. By please, for everyones sake. Wear clothes.

I found your camera in my reloading room

 

[Threadcutter308]

I found your camera in my reloading room

Yeah, wasn't that about a year ago ?

And.....you're just now getting around to telling him ?

 

[iceng]

He found it. He didnt remove it.

 

[padom]

21st Century Hand priming tool if your not looking for high speed priming. Click adjustable seating depth, very high quality will last a lifetime

L.E. Wilson FL Bushing sizing dies are very nice and a step above your Redding and Forster. Just made with more attention to detail/quality and size like butter.. Redding or Forster micrometer seating die

One thing I can't say enough about is trimming. Spend the money now and forget it forever...Henderson Case Trimmer. One of the best things I've bought

 

[Un_named]

Hello. I am going to be purchasing tools for reloading 6.5cm within the next few weeks and will be reloading for casual PRS along with reloading some hunting cartridges. The only tool I have already decided on is the Forster Co-Ax for my first press. I have tried to do a lot of research, but it seems difficult to find honest/unbiased reviews and opinions of most reloading equipment. Never been the one to just go buy the most expensive, or least expensive, of anything unless I did proper research to make sure I actually want and need that item. If the best-in-category is only a little better but 2x as expensive as next-best option, that's not what I'm looking for. If there is a tool where you feel no expense should be spared, let us know why you feel that way and how much easier it makes your job (but also include the next-best alternative please). I want to buy all the proper items the first time around... I'm not trying to cheap out on this stuff, but not trying to spend $3000 either. What would you consider to be the best value in each of these tool categories?

Press - Already decided on Forster Co-Ax
Dies - ?
Priming Tool - ?
Powder Measure - ?
Case Trimming - ?
Brass Cleaning Tools - ?
Case Lube - Making my own with Iso Alcohol/Lanolin

If there's something I'm missing, just let me know.

In my opinion start with the basics. Get a manual or 2. The co-ax has a primer set up on it that works fine once you learn how to set it up. A shorter handle aids in the feel of seating primers. For dies, Forster are not crazy expensive and come with the lock rings that are made to work with your press choice. Buy a Chargemaster or similar and some check weights. For case trimming a lathe type is slow and some models really are tough to operate consistently. Forster is OK but Wilson makes it easier with case holders. One of the most used tools on my bench is a RCBS trim mate, all the manufactures make one. I prefer the Lyman tools for it.

You won't know what you like until you start so what reviews well/costs the most may not work for you. Once you start reloading and enjoy the process you can go crazy upgrading.

 

[spife7980]

Mechanized.

A digital powder meter like a charge master and a powered trimmer with a three way blade.

The digital powder means it’s doing its thing while you seat a bullet etc, it removes your time from that process.

Same with a three way trimmer, trim chamfer and deburr in one pass instead of handling each piece of brass three times and the powered aspect saves your elbow grease.

Spending more isn’t about results over mid priced gear, it’s about saving time and frustrations which makes the hobby much more enjoyable rather than a chore.

 

[CK1.0]

Press - Already decided on Forster Co-Ax. Co-Ax handle/stroke + human arms = lame. The little Lyman Ideal press (~$100) is better
Dies - Almost doesn't matter, avoid Mighty Armory, Hornady Match sets are the best bang for the buck
Priming Tool - Frankford Arsenal Platinum Perfect Seat priming tool (like a 21st Century, but way faster)
Powder Measure - A&D FX120i + Ingenuity Precision powder measure + ~$100 misc AT parts/Lee PP measure (not cheap but worth the cost)
Case Trimming - DeWalt cordless drill + Frankford Arsenal Universal Precision Case Trimmer
Brass Cleaning Tools - dry tumbler + 20-40 grit corn cob blast media (much finer than the usual stuff)
Case Lube - Making my own with Iso Alcohol/Lanolin

 

[McJerkins]

You need to weigh up speed VS consistency.

You may have the most consistent ammo over 100 loaded rounds, but if it takes you 10mins per round, you will be dead before you enjoy shooting it.

If you can make ammo once per second, but its only as good as factory,.. then juat buy factory.

Hand loading IS NOT CHEAPER. Handloading is like buying top shelf ammo when its on special or in bulk. THATS the benefit. Consistent top shelf ammo.

You have a co-ax.. start with redding type-s dies, and anhalf decent digital scale. Hornady, rcbs, lyman, whatever. See if you even enjoy doing it.

As you start loading, you realise the priming part is fruatrating you. So buy a gucci primer. Then thats sorted. Then you look into seating, or whatever.

Build up gradually. I get you wanna drop coin on top end gear, but i promise you, IT WONT MAKE YOU A BETTER RELOADER.

Reloading is different. I do it one way, you will do it another, and @308pirate does it naked. We all have our styles.

Learn yours by slowly building up. By please, for everyones sake. Wear clothes.

I understand that reloading is not cheaper, but I only shoot 1-2 times per month so it's not a giant expense for me. I edited my initial post prior to you posting where I added that "I do not want to spend $3000." So I'm not trying to buy the best of the best. I am trying to find the best value. Best value is usually never the most expensive item. lol I DO want to get the most accuracy out of the money I do spend on this bolt gun, and I also appreciate the knowledge/self sufficiency aspect of reloading.

It seems like most of these reloading tools hold their value fairly well, especially if I only used them for a bit before deciding to sell/upgrade. Thank you for the recommendations! Will decide on naked v. clothed at a later point.

 

[McJerkins]

Press - Already decided on Forster Co-Ax. Co-Ax handle/stroke + human arms = lame. The little Lyman Ideal press (~$100) is better
Dies - Almost doesn't matter, avoid Mighty Armory, Hornady Match sets are the best bang for the buck
Priming Tool - Frankford Arsenal Platinum Perfect Seat priming tool (like a 21st Century, but way faster)
Powder Measure - A&D FX120i + Ingenuity Precision powder measure + ~$100 misc AT parts/Lee PP measure (not cheap but worth the cost)
Case Trimming - DeWalt cordless drill + Frankford Arsenal Universal Precision Case Trimmer
Brass Cleaning Tools - dry tumbler + 20-40 grit corn cob blast media (much finer than the usual stuff)
Case Lube - Making my own with Iso Alcohol/Lanolin

I've only ever seen people rave about the Co-Ax. You've used one and do not like it? Can you be more specific about why you don't like it? I'm sure I could 3d print or make a new handle out of wood if that's an issue.

 

[spife7980]

A coax pivots in a different position than others that are hinged below. He didn’t have the bench located correctly so sure, it’s weird if you mount it wrong, but there is nothing wrong with the press.
With my table couch set up the ideal press he recommends would hit the handle on the floor but the coax is perfect.
Get what you want, just mount it correctly.

 

[CK1.0]

I've only ever seen people rave about the Co-Ax. You've used one and do not like it? Can you be more specific about why you don't like it? I'm sure I could 3d print or make a new handle out of wood if that's an issue.

I don't have anything to say about the ammo a Co-Ax makes, that's not it. They make great ammo.

I've just used 3 different ones, each mounted a little differently (different heights, with and without Inline Fab risers), and still haven't encountered one that was mounted in such a way that was ergonomic for a human to use comfortably. The over-the-top stroke is just weird, and while no single-stage press is going to break any speed records, I just think it's best to pick one that will let one work a little faster while not wrecking their shoulder (and I'm 6'2", so if you're shorter than me, then it probably is worse).

When cranking out rounds on a progressive press (like a Dillon), getting the handle close to the same height as one's shoulder is a huge pain saver over time, and the same thing applies to a single-stage press.

Getting the press to the right height so you can work efficiently is more important than many think/know, whether one of Inline Fabrication's or the universal one that Lyman makes (I have/like both), IMHO getting a riser isn't an option, it's a must.

This is a counter-height bench (36") with the little Lyman on a Lyman riser (Dillon on an Inline Fab).

 

[McJerkins]

@CK1.0 Thank you for elaborating. Hopefully other people with the same questions I've had will find this thread, so it should help more people than just I.

I'm a 5'10" midget, but I can fit into racecars easier so it's an alright trade. lol Car guy first, guns come second...

One of the things that was appealing about the Co-Ax was the shell holders not being necessary, but it seems that I need shell holders for multiple uses and not just the press so I'll end up buying them anyway.

Also, do you happen to have the a link to that diagram on your wall? I'd like one for 6.5cm.

 

[CK1.0]

@CK1.0 Thank you for elaborating. Hopefully other people with the same questions I've had will find this thread, so it should help more people than just I.

I'm a 5'10" midget, but I can fit into racecars easier so it's an alright trade. lol Car guy first, guns come second...

One of the things that was appealing about the Co-Ax was the shell holders not being necessary, but it seems that I need shell holders for multiple uses and not just the press so I'll end up buying them anyway.

Also, do you happen to have the a link to that diagram on your wall? I'd like one for 6.5cm.

The best advice I can give when it comes to reloading tools is to consider how you'll use them and how simple and solid they are in their most basic form (be weary of gadgets). The longer I do this, the more I'm impressed with stuff that does one specific job kick-ass over stuff that tries to do a bunch of different stuff doing it half-ass.

With some things (like fancy powder droppers that drop every charge to the kernel in seconds) you're going to have to open your wallet to get the best performance... but a lot of the other stuff is caveman stuff and it comes down to what you like and what works for you. Remember, there are dudes winning golden bullets while loading their shit on $100 Lee presses.

You'll find the SAAMI drawing on page 39 (or 51 of the PDF): https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...99.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

 

[SanPatHogger]

How many rounds do you shoot in a month? Year? If you are just a casual shooter and only fire a few rounds here and there, you can load really good ammo on some really cheap equipment. If you shoot hundreds of rounds a month and are training like crazy and shooting every match you can find you will want equipment that is faster. I think a lot of people spend money on reloading faster.

 

[308pirate]

He found it. He didnt remove it.

Cause you liked what you saw

 

[Molon]

I'm sure I could 3d print or make a new handle out of wood if that's an issue.

There is no "issue." Some people seem to think that you're required to stand squarely in front of the press like you would with a Dillon progressive press. You're aren't.

Place the Co-Ax press on a counter-height bench and stand slightly off to one side of the press. The motion to operate the Co-Ax is so easy and smooth that you don't even have to grasp the handle with your whole hand; you can operate it with just your fingers.

....

 

[Vyx313]

I'm in the same boat as you with respect to quality/price decisions. After quite a bit of research, here's what I came up with. I haven't purchased an annealer or trimmer yet but everything else is on its way.

Part	Item	Vendor	Price	Comments
Calipers			$ -	Already Have
Bullet Puller	RCBS	RCBS	$ 32.00	Need to add appropriate collet.
Reloading Blocks	MTM Universal	Midway	$ 20.00	QTY 2
Funnel	Frankford Arsenal AL Funnel	Midway	$ 30.00
Headspace Comparator	Hornady 5 Bushing Set	Midway	$ 45.00
Bullet Comparator	Hornady Basic Set	Midway	$ 34.00
Case Lube	Hornady One Shot	Midway	$ 18.00
Brass Tumbler	Berry QD500	Midway	$ 70.00
Media	Corn Cob Media	RCBS	$ 10.00
Media Separator	Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series	Midway	$ 47.00
Hand Primer	Frankford Arsenal Perfect Seat	OpticsPlanet	$ 78.00
Case Trimmer	Giraud 6.5	Giraud	$ 110.00
Case Prep/Debur/Bevel	^^Combo with above		$ -
Annealer	Annealeze	Annealeze	$ 275.00	AGS Annealer? Forum10 for discount.
Powder Dispenser	Chargemaster Link	RCBS	$ 160.00	Chargemaster Lite from SH
Press	Forster Coax	OpticsPlanet	$ 375.00
Press Mount	Ultramount for Forster Coax	Midway	$ 105.00
Shell Holder	Shell Holder #3		$ -	Won't need this with Forster, Primer comes with it.
Expander Mandre	21st Centruy	21st	$ 104.00	Body + 3 mandrels
Sizing Die	RCBS Matchmaster Full Length 6.5	RCBS	$ 89.00
Seating Die	^^Combo with above		$ -
Neck Bushing	RCBS	RCBS	$ 17.00
Lock Rings	Forster	OpticsPlanet	$ 62.80
Press Cover	Forster Cover	OpticsPlanet	$ 22.00
			$ 1,703.80	Total

 

[R_A_W]

Dies - LE Wilson FL Sizing Die, Lee Collet, RCBS Matchmaster Seater. I have a few full sets of Redding Type S Match dies & they're nowhere near the fit/finish quality as LE Wilsons or the new Matchmasters. I doubt I ever buy another Redding die. I used to use Forester Ultra Micrometers as well (still have them), but the Matchmasters are nicer.

Priming Tool - 21st Century Innovation Super Precision adjustable hand primer (I forget the exact name)

Powder Measure - The easy solution is to get a used Matchmaster... but the more I reload for precision, the more I want to say start with an FX-120i instead, even if you don't get an AT or ST. You can throw w/ a powder throw & trickle w/ a manual or vibratory trickler until you decide to upgrade to an AT or ST. It's actually not slow, other than it precludes multitasking.

 

[ZA206]

I'm in the same boat as you with respect to quality/price decisions. After quite a bit of research, here's what I came up with. I haven't purchased an annealer or trimmer yet but everything else is on its way.

Part	Item	Vendor	Price	Comments
Calipers			$ -	Already Have
Bullet Puller	RCBS	RCBS	$ 32.00	Need to add appropriate collet.
Reloading Blocks	MTM Universal	Midway	$ 20.00	QTY 2
Funnel	Frankford Arsenal AL Funnel	Midway	$ 30.00
Headspace Comparator	Hornady 5 Bushing Set	Midway	$ 45.00
Bullet Comparator	Hornady Basic Set	Midway	$ 34.00
Case Lube	Hornady One Shot	Midway	$ 18.00
Brass Tumbler	Berry QD500	Midway	$ 70.00
Media	Corn Cob Media	RCBS	$ 10.00
Media Separator	Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series	Midway	$ 47.00
Hand Primer	Frankford Arsenal Perfect Seat	OpticsPlanet	$ 78.00
Case Trimmer	Giraud 6.5	Giraud	$ 110.00
Case Prep/Debur/Bevel	^^Combo with above		$ -
Annealer	Annealeze	Annealeze	$ 275.00	AGS Annealer? Forum10 for discount.
Powder Dispenser	Chargemaster Link	RCBS	$ 160.00	Chargemaster Lite from SH
Press	Forster Coax	OpticsPlanet	$ 375.00
Press Mount	Ultramount for Forster Coax	Midway	$ 105.00
Shell Holder	Shell Holder #3		$ -	Won't need this with Forster, Primer comes with it.
Expander Mandre	21st Centruy	21st	$ 104.00	Body + 3 mandrels
Sizing Die	RCBS Matchmaster Full Length 6.5	RCBS	$ 89.00
Seating Die	^^Combo with above		$ -
Neck Bushing	RCBS	RCBS	$ 17.00
Lock Rings	Forster	OpticsPlanet	$ 62.80
Press Cover	Forster Cover	OpticsPlanet	$ 22.00
			$ 1,703.80	Total

I thought Giraud wouldn't make a 6.5 CM Tri-Way....

Skip the Hornady One shot lube... it's not worth the headache. Just get some Imperial sizing wax and just wipe it off when you are done. If you use the homebrew lanolin deal, that needs a full pass through the tumbler to get that stuff off!

I'd get a seating die with a micrometer, this should almost be mandatory.

You don't need 3 expander mandrels starting out, you probably only need the .262" turning mandrel.

As for annealers, look at the Ugly Annealer.

lock rings = HORNADY!!!

 

[JAS-SH]

Hello. I am going to be purchasing tools for reloading 6.5cm within the next few weeks and will be reloading for casual PRS along with reloading some hunting cartridges. The only tool I have already decided on is the Forster Co-Ax for my first press. I have tried to do a lot of research, but it seems difficult to find honest/unbiased reviews and opinions of most reloading equipment. Never been the one to just go buy the most expensive, or least expensive, of anything unless I did proper research to make sure I actually want and need that item. If the best-in-category is only a little better but 2x as expensive as next-best option, that's not what I'm looking for. If there is a tool where you feel no expense should be spared, let us know why you feel that way and how much easier it makes your job (but also include the next-best alternative please). I want to buy all the proper items the first time around... I'm not trying to cheap out on this stuff, but not trying to spend $3000 either. What would you consider to be the best value in each of these tool categories?

Press - Already decided on Forster Co-Ax
Dies - ?
Priming Tool - ?
Powder Measure - ?
Case Trimming - ?
Brass Cleaning Tools - ?
Case Lube - Making my own with Iso Alcohol/Lanolin

If there's something I'm missing, just let me know.

Pay attention here. A bunch of these posts above have nothing to do with what you want to do - casual PRS and hunting. Both of those are not benchrest nor f-class. So again pay attention.

You have already decided on the Forster coax. Ok, then prime on the press - it's made for that. I prefer to use an arbor press for bullet seating in addition to a regular resizing press but you don't need to be that accurate for what you want to do.

Dies - any quality resizing die will do, as long as it has a micrometer to nail down shoulder bump. That's all you will use it for.

Priming tool - don't nee one (see Forster)

Powder measure - this is different because you need a scale. The funny thing is that all these digital scales advertise .1 grain "accuracy". That is flat out not true. Them marketeers left the (+/-) in front of the .1 out. In reality, that number is .3 grain accuracy. Why? say you throw a charge that is zero. The next is is +.1, the next one is -.1. Accordingly, they call it .1 accuracy when the spread is really .3.grains.

Moving on - I would just first, get a simple but really good manual powder charge drop like the Hornady lock-n-load benchrest grade manual powder measure. Why? because it has a smaller cylinder than the standard one and that makes drops more accurate.

Second, I would get an old fashioned beam scale. None of this .3 grain error. When the beam scale says zero, IT IS ZERO. Charge short on the drop charger and tickler in the rest. You will get good at it quick and be able to drop a charge into a primed case in around 10-seconds, faster than most electronic dispensers. By the way the most expensive powder charge gizmo cost $3800! and it's a beam scale with a green (maybe RCBS powder charge dropper that has all been encased and fully automated.

Case trimmer: Go manual and any well adjusted trimmer will work.

Brass cleaning: don't have to do it every time unless you're shooting an AR or a badly chambered bolt rifle. Media tumblers are the cheapest and well proven. Stay away from ultrasonic.

Case lube: Imperial wax. No oils - no more cleaning afterwards. Just wipe the case.

​

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Pay attention here. A bunch of these posts above have nothing to do with what you want to do - casual PRS and hunting. Both of those are not benchrest nor f-class. So again pay attention.

You have already decided on the Forster coax. Ok, then prime on the press - it's made for that. I prefer to use an arbor press for bullet seating in addition to a regular resizing press but you don't need to be that accurate for what you want to do.

Dies - any quality resizing die will do, as long as it has a micrometer to nail down shoulder bump. That's all you will use it for.

Priming tool - don't nee one (see Forster)

Powder measure - this is different because you need a scale. The funny thing is that all these digital scales advertise .1 grain "accuracy". That is flat out not true. Them marketeers left the (+/-) in front of the .1 out. In reality, that number is .3 grain accuracy. Why? say you throw a charge that is zero. The next is is +.1, the next one is -.1. Accordingly, they call it .1 accuracy when the spread is really .3.grains.

Moving on - I would just first, get a simple but really good manual powder charge drop like the Hornady lock-n-load benchrest grade manual powder measure. Why? because it has a smaller cylinder than the standard one and that makes drops more accurate.

Second, I would get an old fashioned beam scale. None of this .3 grain error. When the beam scale says zero, IT IS ZERO. Charge on the drop charger and tickler in the rest. You will get good at it quick and be able to drop a charge in around 10-seconds, faster than most electronic dispensers. By the way the most expensive powder charge gizmo cost $3800! and it's a beam scale with a green (maybe RCBS powder charge dropper that has all been encased and fully automated.

Case trimmer: Go manual and any well adjusted trimmer will work.

Brass cleaning: don't have to do it every time unless you're shooting an AR or a badly chambered bolt rifle. Media tumblers are the cheapest and well proven. Stay away from ultrasonic.

Case lube: Imperial wax. No oils - no more cleaning afterwards. Just wipe the case.

​

An FX 120i is good to one milligram, which is roughly a single kernel of most powders or 0.01gr not 0.1. Even by your definition, that would still be .03gr.

And your RCBS beam scale is .1gr.


This is why even the best shooters in F class or others that require as close to kernel precision use an Fx120i or better. Since you mentioned the Prometheus, Brand has been quoted on video saying if things like the Fx-120 systems were around the, he'd likely have never made the Prometheus.


Let's just keep the air clean and not make claims that are incorrect, such as a balance beam being more precise than a lab scale.

 

[JAS-SH]

An FX 120i is good to one milligram, which is roughly a single kernel of most powders or 0.01gr not 0.1. Even by your definition, that would still be .03gr.

And your RCBS beam scale is .1gr.


This is why even the best shooters in F class or others that require as close to kernel precision use an Fx120i or better. Since you mentioned the Prometheus, Brand has been quoted on video saying if things like the Fx-120 systems were around the, he'd likely have never made the Prometheus.


Let's just keep the air clean and not make claims that are incorrect, such as a balance beam being more precise than a lab scale.

And here we go again <G>...

The OP does NOT need that accuracy - PAY ATTENTION..

Do you even know how much difference .1 grain makes in actual vertical accuracy? Do the math and report back (I already calculated that).

 

[McJerkins]

@JAS-SH I appreciate everybody's input, and I wanted this to be a discussion as well purchasing advice thread (which is good because that's what it has become), but you are the first one, other than @Vyx313, to cater your response to the use-case in my situation. I tried to give as much information as I could in my original post, considering my limited knowledge on the subject.

Ignoring the entire "beam scale vs automated," "$800 scale" discussion for now. Converse amongst yourselves with that one. lol

For the money I'm trying to spend, and my intended uses of these tools, yes... certain manual items do seem to be a good idea. One reason is because I trust myself with certain things more than I would trust anything automated/computerized. It should keep my mind from wandering and potentially end up making a big mistake.

Thank you.

 

[McJerkins]

@Vyx313 Damn, this was super helpful to see an itemized list with values beside it. Simple I know, and one of the first things I should have done. Also, you have included little things in this list that I have overlooked (or not realized that I may need). Thank you!

 

[CK1.0]

Consistent powder drops is one of the toughest things to accomplish without spending some loot...

That said, until one has the budget to get a more Gucci setup, one can buy a decent-quality volumetric powder measure and stick to the newer more temperature-insensitive ball powders and do pretty damn good. That really wasn't even an option for long-range/precision rifle a few years ago. One can easily and consistently drop Sta-Ball to within +/- 0.1gn , turning out stuff with SDs in the teens, that is plenty good enough for practice ammo out to 1250 yards (I know because I did it for quite a while).

I had one of my best PRS finishes ever while shooting Sta-Ball 6.5 dropped straight into the cases with a ~$60 Lyman Brass Smith powder measure.

I still use the same powder measure for my bulk charges with my FX120i/Ingenuity Precision powder trickler setup (until Paul releases his bulk dropper).

 

[R_A_W]

After quite a bit of research, here's what I came up with.

Going through your list... few comments

Hornady's bullet puller is better than the RCBS
You don't really need a $50 media separator
You list the Giraud Tri-Way as a 6.5... Do then make one that works with 6.5 CM?
Hornady One Shot is just ok, but lanolin/alcohol is better & cheaper
I'd consider a set of Redding Competition Shellholders for use when FL sizing

Good list though

 

[McJerkins]

Consistent powder drops is one of the toughest things to accomplish without spending some loot...

That said, until one has the budget to get a more Gucci setup, one can buy a decent-quality volumetric powder measure and stick to the newer more temperature-insensitive ball powders and do pretty damn good. That really wasn't even an option for long-range/precision rifle a few years ago. One can easily and consistently drop Sta-Ball to within +/- 0.1gn , turning out stuff with SDs in the teens, that is plenty good enough for practice ammo out to 1250 yards (I know because I did it for quite a while).

I had one of my best PRS finishes ever while shooting Sta-Ball 6.5 dropped straight into the cases with a ~$60 Lyman Brass Smith powder measure.

I still use the same powder measure for my bulk charges with my FX120i/Ingenuity Precision powder trickler setup (until Paul releases his bulk dropper).

If I went with a manual powder measure, I was planning on throwing under what I wanted and just using a trickler to add slightly more to get proper amount. I'm not worried about spending a few more seconds per cartridge to do that. No big deal at all.

 

[straightshooter1]

Second, I would get an old fashioned beam scale. None of this .3 grain error. When the beam scale says zero, IT IS ZERO.

Actually, that's only true if the beam scale has been tuned and is set up properly.

I've played around with a couple beam scales and use a computer camera hooked up to a laptop to get a very close look at the scale's pointer that I can see plenty of movement with just a single granule powder (like with Varget). Very often I'd get a different reading from one time to another with exactly the same powder. I discovered a lot of the variation was do the various pressures put on the arm at different angles as I set the pan onto the scale. I was able to mitigate that to some extent. The scales I used were not tuned in any way either. Zero on a beam scale doesn't necessarily mean it's actually zero.

Expensive lab quality electronic scales are way more sensitive and accurate than any beam scale and faster, or they've be using beam scales in the high tech labs of today.

Charge short on the drop charger and tickler in the rest. You will get good at it quick and be able to drop a charge into a primed case in around 10-seconds, faster than most electronic dispensers. By the way the most expensive powder charge gizmo cost $3800! and it's a beam scale with a green (maybe RCBS powder charge dropper that has all been encased and fully automated.

Yes, the very expensive gizmo (the Prometheus Gen II) uses a beam scale . . . that has been highly tuned, specifically set up and enclosed in a container to avoid outside influences. That's the kind of thing where when the beam scale says zero, it's darn close to perfectly zero.

It all still comes down to . . . you get what you pay for.

 

[R_A_W]

a computer camera hooked up to a laptop to get a very close look at the scale's pointer that I can see plenty of movement with just a single granule powder (like with Varget).

Pretty cool. Something you developed?

 

[straightshooter1]

Pretty cool. Something you developed?

It was something I thought up on my own (I'm kinda a techy nerd to some extent and a tinkerer) and later found a few others who came up with the same idea for what they do.

BTW, other than being able to see small movement, the camera set up takes away the problem with parallax when looking at the pointer.

 

[JAS-SH]

Actually, that's only true if the beams scale has been tuned and is set up properly.

Duh!

 

[JAS-SH]

If I went with a manual powder measure, I was planning on throwing under what I wanted and just using a trickler to add slightly more to get proper amount. I'm not worried about spending a few more seconds per cartridge to do that. No big deal at all.

Great choice. Make sure you can trickle and exact charge. For that you need a very accurate beam scale (trust your eyes!). Excellent beam scales are not inexpensive (staring at ~ 100 bucks). There's a reason for that - quality.

People will tell you that a beam scale has all kind of problems but they don't tell you what they are. When well calibrated (easy) and it says ZER0 - it IS ZERO. a perfect charge. They are that sensitive (good scales).

People will say, well.... there will be parallax errors depending at your viewing position when looking at the pointer. News flash. If you always look at it from the same position it will always be ZERO because it always points the same! Perfect load.

And once you become proficient at it, and that doesn't take long at all, they work every time and the whole thing is quick, as quick or quicker than electronic dispensers, And, no batteries nor induction errors - Ref: The generation of electromotive force in a closed circuit by a varying magnetic flux through the circuit.

Beam scales have been around for 2000 years +. Digital scales, not so much. Guess which ones have been perfected....

If you really want to get into the measuring weeds (you really don't need to for reloading) read this:

https://astro.pas.rochester.edu/~aquillen/phy141/lectures/pdfs/uncertainty_nc.pdf

 

[R_A_W]

I actually count my kernels individually. 41.7gr = 2,085 kernels.

People will say, well... you'll lose count depending on how ADD you are. News flash. If you write down each kernel, you will always get the same load. Perfect load.

 

[straightshooter1]

I actually count my kernels individually. 41.7gr = 2,085 kernels.

People will say, well... you'll lose count depending on how ADD you are. News flash. If you write down each kernel, you will always get the same load. Perfect load.

But first, you've got to measure each kernel's dimensions and mass to make sure they're all the same size so that number will add up to the same weight.

 

[R_A_W]

I sort my kernels

 

[spife7980]

Pretty cool. Something you developed?

Yeah its cool and its accurate... but its back to taking a bunch of time while you sit there and stare at it waiting for it to settle, then you trickle your kernel and wait, then trickle a kernel and wait, then trickle a kernal and wait, oops, to much, pull a kernal out and wait. Slow as hell and boring as fuck.

Get a beam if you are doomsday prepping, get a chargemaster if you want to have fun reloading or do more than 50 rounds a month.

 

[R_A_W]

@straightshooter1 now you have to develop some beam stabilizer to weigh loads faster

How does the Prometheus do it?

 

[CK1.0]

If I went with a manual powder measure, I was planning on throwing under what I wanted and just using a trickler to add slightly more to get proper amount. I'm not worried about spending a few more seconds per cartridge to do that. No big deal at all.

This is a great way to start; however, trickling every round gets tiresome fast, and you/we can only be as good as the quality of our scales, so it can be hard to experience the upside to all that pain without a scale that's up to the task (something with +/- 0.02gn resolution).

With any run-of-the-mill scale that has a typical +/- 0.1gn resolution, ball powder is a lot less painful to deal with, and after some practice, it's not too hard to hit one's target weight dead-on to a tenth of a grain just about every time, no trickling necessary. Of course, one can trickle ball powders too if they like... the stuff flows like water and is easy to control, far less anguish than trickling stick powder.

Now that there is stuff like Sta-Ball out there, I almost believe dropping and then manually trickling extruded stick powder is a form of self-torture that one shouldn't even bother with lol.

If you're set on using stick powders and can live with +/- 0.1gn resolution, as has been mentioned, just get a Chargemaster or Chargemaster-alike (whatever is cheapest, they're all about the same).

 

[straightshooter1]

@straightshooter1 now you have to develop some beam stabilizer to weigh loads faster

How does the Prometheus do it?

To me it looks like a couple of things combined. Like other powder beam scales a magnet is the primary stabilizer, but its location is at the opposite end of the beam close to the fulcrum, along with a short stop for both directions, than we we typically see in our beam scales, so there's less distance traveled. Along with that, the "pointer" is also at that opposite end where its shadow is then projected onto a screen at other end making it look much bigger than it really is. This setup makes for quicker stabilization and reading very small movements.

The quicker stabilization is only one element of the total speed for the Prometheus for getting a powder charge into a case. One has to adjust the mounted powder thrower close to the desired weight and then the speedy electronic trickler makes for fast trickling to the desired weight and then the measured charge is easily dropped directly into a case.

That's about as well as I can describe it with my limited knowledge of its details.

 

[ZA206]

LOL at using a beam scale. Screw that. You guys suggesting that shit have too much free time on your hands.
OP will use that thing once and after he loads 50 rounds with it, he will start shopping for digital scales.

OP should get a quality digital like a Gempro or something unless he wants to get serious out of the gate, in that case get the A&D FX-120i and be done with it.

 

[Evintos]

Relatively cheap upgrade for the Coax that is worth getting is the Inline Fabrication roller lever. Short version if mounting the press on a Inline Fabrication ultramount or standard length if Coax is mounted on bench top.

 

[Haney]

LOL at using a beam scale. Screw that. You guys suggesting that shit have too much free time on your hands.
OP will use that thing once and after he loads 50 rounds with it, he will start shopping for digital scales.

OP should get a quality digital like a Gempro or something unless he wants to get serious out of the gate, in that case get the A&D FX-120i and be done with it.

How long did you use a beam scale before you decided to buy a digital scale ?