Best way to shorten FL size die UPDATE!!!!

[BK7saum]

Does anyone have a recommendation on how to shorten or remove material from the base of a Forster full length resize die? I have used the die on two presses and I need to take about .002-.003" off the die.

Do I send it back to Forster? Or file the bottom of the die or use a belt sander?

Even when I have the die threaded in so that the press cams over very hard, the case chambers, but there is tension on the bolt. Not a whole lot, but I don't want to gall the bolt on the lug abutments.

This is a custom chambered rifle with a minimum spec chamber. The die in question is a Forster Full Length die.

My redding body die will resize the brass enough so that the bolt easily closes.

On another note, do you recommend using the body die and then the neck die or having the Forster die worked on to FL resize without the expander.

Which should result in the least runout? I don't have a way to check the concentricity of the resized brass at this point.

Any suggestions/tips/hints are welcome and appreciated. Kinda ran both questions together here, but they are related issues.

Thanks,

BLK7

 

[hugo121175]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

You could bring it to your local machine shop. They can take it off and make it nice....

Hugo

 

[BK7saum]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

I hadn't really considered that yet. I don't really know any of the local guys well or how receptive they are to walkin work of that sort.

Leaning toward sending it back to Forster and also getting the neck opened up about .001 to have the proper neck tension out of one die. I get a smidge over .003 neck tension right now with that die.

Thanks, BLK7

 

[IES]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

I was in a similar situation last spring.

I called the local machine shop who in turn recommended (said he didn't have the capability or experience himself) another local machinist for the job. Called ahead, scheduled appointment, and 30min after they opened their doors I was all paid and had shorter FL die in hand...and got to BS the machinists.

That being said, maybe with Forster you stand a better chance of it being modded correctly the first time?

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

IMHO using the same die in two different presses is not a good idea, because no two anything is machined the same, are you unable to bump the shoulder back, are you camming over with the press, did you set up your die with a headspace gauge or by the instructions that came with it, and are you getting .003 tension without the expander ball, or with.

 

[mscott]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

If you only need .002-.003" just carefully bump it on a belt sander.

 

[BK7saum]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

I am unable to bump the shoulder with the Forster Die. Tried it in my coax and in my rcbs press. Despite HARD camover using both presses still not enough bump. Need. 002-.003" more bump.

Setting up die with headspace gauge. Been reloading for 20 years. Know how to set up the die.

The brass is neck turned. I get .003" without the expander ball.

Thanks. Any suggestions on shortening the die. Will it matter about using a belt sander. That would be quicker.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMHO using the same die in two different presses is not a good idea, because no two anything is machined the same, are you unable to bump the shoulder back, are you camming over with the press, did you set up your die with a headspace gauge or by the instructions that came with it, and are you getting .003 tension without the expander ball, or with. </div></div>

 

[DRAM40A1]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

Take that .002 to .003 off the top of the shell holder. that will allow the case to go further into the die.

 

[BK7saum]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

That is not an option on the coax press I want to use. If I stayed with the rockchucker that will work.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

I would send it back to Forster, they will fix that for free, I just wanted to make sure its the die and not..............., as for reaming the neck I want to send mine in for my 260 but haven't decided on what I want it reamed to, a 290 bushing works good with Rem and Win7-08 brass necked down, but I'm waiting on Lapua 260 brass see if 290 will work with it too.

 

[BK7saum]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would send it back to Forster, they will fix that for free, I just wanted to make sure its the die and not..............., as for reaming the neck I want to send mine in for my 260 but haven't decided on what I want it reamed to, a 290 bushing works good with Rem and Win7-08 brass necked down, but I'm waiting on Lapua 260 brass see if 290 will work with it too. </div></div>

Yeah, I need to play with the redding die neck bushings to see what bushings work best to get the right neck tension. Then send it in to be shortened and the neck reamed. That way I can full length size and get the right neck tension all in one step.

I guess it will eventually go to Forster to fix both at the same time once I get neck tension figured out.

Thanks all.

BLK7

 

[Guest]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLK7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have a recommendation on how to shorten or remove material from the base of a Forster full length resize die? I have used the die on two presses and I need to take about .002-.003" off the die.</div></div>

Try a different shell holder, I've seen as much as 0.001 - 0.020 difference between some brands. Shell holders are easy to trim 0.002-3 from, an can be done with a good stone and a few minutes of your time.

Think outside of the box, some things just need elbow grease.

 

[fish30114]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

Perhaps in reverse order, but 'a smidge over .003' neck tension is perfectly fine IMO. Even with neck turning, I wouldn't sweat getting that down 1 thou. If you really HAVE to do that, then I'd vote to send it back to Forster--but I wouldn't.

I've zizzed a few thou off of several dies with my belt sander, if you get a little more than you need it isn't a factor IME, the die bottoming out against the shellholder (or shell plate in the Coax) isn't a factor on getting your case sized accurately, in fact I have a BUNCH of dies that haven't been touched, and are 10-15 thou and maybe even more off of the shellholder when the press is fully raised, to get the proper sizing, and it doens't phase the operations/results.

Bump it on your belt sander, shoot some of your new ammo made with it, and then measure it on the target face as Glen Zediker says!

 

[littlerascal56]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

I also use a belt sander to take a few thousands off the bottom...did it to dies for some of my TIGHT chambered rifles. Even if you take a few thousands too much...won't matter as you just set your lock ring to size to what you need.

Seems like I have to do it for the dies the run in my CO-AX more so then the RCBS machine.

 

[nesikabay]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

Redding makes shell holders that are different in hight. Dont grind on your die. If you have to remove it remove it from your shell holder. There cheaper to replace

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

+1 if you need to grind something make it the shell holder; can replace them for less than $20.00, the dies are more expensive.

JeffVN

 

[BK7saum]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

Just an update. I decided to shorten my Forster FL sizer die by filing the bottom. Figured that way, I wouldn't screw it up all at once. I measured the length of the die from base to top as a guideline to establish how much I would remove.

Well, by taking a little at a time, I ended up removing .025" off the bottom. At .023" off, the die would size but there was a slight bit of cam-over. I filed an additional .002" off to make sure the bottom of the die was square within .001" by measuring the length of the die around the circumference. Now I get the proper bump with the bottom of the die just a couple of thousandths off the shellholder jaws of my co-ax press.

Very pleased with the results. I chamfered and polished the die base and it came out great.

I was really suprised that it took .020"+ to get the shoulder to bump .001". I know this is a custom tight chamber but apparently the die reamer may have been run a little too deep.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and tips. Just thought I'd give those interested an update.

BLK7

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

"I was really suprised that it took .020"+ to get the shoulder to bump .001"."

Seems impossible, don't it? But, it clearly isn't.

What you're seeing rises from the fact that brass springs back in length as well as diameter. Thus, if you measure your nicely resized cases you will still find about 3 thou of variation in the same box. Sorta makes all those proud statements some loaders proclaim that their ammo is precise because they take such care in their processes to be something of a joke. IMHO. Anyway, you fixed it the proper way.

It's amusing that so many wanted you to sand down your shell holder and one fellow suggests you use Redding's shell holders that are even thicker than a normal shell holder!

 

[BK7saum]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

Fuzzball,

When resized i get .001-.003" of bump and the diameter at the shoulder is about .003" less than the shoulder of a fired case. So there is a little bit of space, but not a bad fit between die and chamber.

You're right, there is variation in how much the shoulder body is bumped between cases. This was sizing on the first firing. I guess the greater the number of times they're sized the more variation you see due to differences in work hardening of the neck and shoulder of the brass.

I don't expect them to come out perfect, just bumped enough that the chamber easily without overworking the brass.

BLK7

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

"When resized i get .001-.003" of bump..."

It would be excellant IF we could simply match the resized shoulder location to the fired position, the fired is already smaller than the chamber. Moving it back further accomplishes nothing except increased case stretch.

You are correct that the variation gets a bit bigger with each cycle due to work hardening.

 

[hrt4me]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 if you need to grind something make it the shell holder; can replace them for less than $20.00, the dies are more expensive.

JeffVN </div></div>

This was gonna be my recommendation as well, but glad it worked out for you.

 

[BK7saum]

Re: Best way to shorten FL size die

I might have gone that route if I had a shellholder to work with. The forster coax press uses shellholder jaws in a retainer. So it wasn't really an option as I was setting up to use the coax.