Better training: 100 rounds one day a week or 20 rounds a day for five days a week?

[noahmercy]

Is there a general consensus on training regimens? While I know that my skills would improve quickly shooting a hundred a day seven days a week, it's just not currently in the cards. I am on a very limited budget, but sacrifice in some areas of my life so I can get trigger time. I can probably afford a hundred rounds a week to shoot right now. Do you think I would see more improvement by shooting all the rounds in one range session each week or shooting five days a week, twenty shots a day?

My gut instinct is that spreading the shooting out would be more productive. There would be a wider variety of wind, light, and other atmospheric conditions. I also wouldn't have to deal with fatigue. On the flip side, since I am really just getting my feet wet with long range shooting, I feel like I may get more of the fundamentals nailed down with a long session each week, and have more confidence that misses aren't just because I didn't compensate properly for the differing conditions.

I'd certainly value the input of those who have "been there-done that" (regardless of if you have the T-shirt!), as well as the rationale behind your answers.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Better training: 100 rounds one day a week or 20 rounds a day for five days a...

Personally, you'd be better off dry firing for 20 minutes a day and then a decent range session or two once a week.

I see it as two ways. If you limit your self to 20 rounds 5 times a week then there is going to be a time that you are shooting really good and that 20 rounds is going to go quick. So what do you do? Shoot a little more?

On the flip side, say you wanna go for 100 all in one day and you get there and you're shooting strait shitty. Do you continue to shoot and just waste ammo or do you pack up and go home?

My advice is to just go shoot and see what works best for you. 100 rds a week is plenty. And if you have the time to go 5 times a week then you are doing good. Set a game plan and just go shoot. If your session is going good then pay attention to what is going right and spend your rounds wisely. If the session is going bad then chalk it up to a bad day, save your ammo for another time. We have good range sessions and bad range sessions so you just have to roll with it.

I always go to the range with 100 rounds so I know I have them if I needed them. If I was really in a groove and having fun, but usually after 30-40 I call it good and save for another day.


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[Sterling Shooter]

The questions are: How much practice at supported prone do you need to get it, that's to say, how much practice is needed to build a steady position? How much practice do you need to understand the position is consistent? How much practice is necessary to discern perspective of aim is consistent? How much practice do you need to understand how to correctly counter for wind and weather effects? Putting a round count on these questions does not assure progress. Simply put, you practice on the things that need attention. The most important thing is to first get a data book also known as a score book. Recording shots and conditions in the score book will help you diagnose the cause/s of error, as well as see trends and build confidence. Since you may not have access to a range with pit service where shots can be marked with a spotting disk, you may need a spotting scope to see bullet strikes which may limit you to the distance bullet holes can be discerned with the spotting scope. Nevertheless, you can learn everything there is to know at short range with the exception of how to properly counter for wind and weather effects. I shoot at the MR-31 target, a 600 yard reduced course target for shooting at 100 yards. For wind and weather training I enter LR competitions which also gives me a reward for all of my effort. The bottom line, make your practice schedule meaningful. Call and plot each shot; and, attempt to determine the cause of shot misplacement from shot to shot. If you cannot discern the cause/s of error focus on what needs to be accomplished, i.e. sight alignment and trigger control. This sort of smart practice will hasten the results you are seeking.

 

[40xs]

Sterling hit the nail on the head. Shooting hundreds of rounds poorly only builds bad habits that are hard to correct. How many times have you seen guys show up at a range with several boxes of ammo and blast away like they are fighting a war. After wasting $100 bucks worth of ammo they have learned nothing, zilch, zero! I just shake my head and think..how foolish. It is not the quantity of shooting...it's the quality of training. I love to see guys come into an indoor range and commence to blasting away at a 5 yard target while holding their pistola horizontal like a gang banger. Are they impressing anyone? yeah.. with their ignorance. I'd love to have the ammo they waste. They actually leave feeling good about themselves and probably couldn't hit the target frame at 25yds.

 

[djskit]

+1 on shooting too much and ingraining bad habits. I shot a lot of steel matches and got into a real funk of muscling the rifle into position. The targert were big enoug so I could get away with it, but really showed up on paper - couldn't hit a 1" dot on paper at 100 in a match to save my life.

Tons of dry practice and limited qaulity live fire is the answer.

 

[Exo]

Ok, I know this is geared towards pistols but the fundamentals are the same Shooting Drill- The One-Box Workout | Active Response Training if you took 50 rounds, twice a week to the range, focusing on what Sterling Shooter said as well as what Darkside-Six said and incorporate it together, I think you would see better results.

Dry fire like a sum-bitch! 20 minutes a day is great! Practice prone, sitting, standing or using the back of your couch as a barrier if you want.

If you run a ranging reticle, practice that at home too. I pick a new window a week in my house, set my rifle up on my tripod, and make a guestimate on the range to "that window" or "that sign". Then range it out as most windows, signs, etc are going to be similarly sized to what you can measure (i.e. the window your looking out of, or the sign right infront of your house)

The biggest thing is to be honest with yourself. Bad range days happen, it sucks, but it happens. Get a log book (it can be a notebook, doesnt need to be fancy). A spotting scope (or binoculars, again nothing fancy). If your shooting bad, try to figure out why. Is it the day, your technique, missed wind calls??? try downloading a shooting app on your phone, they will help diagnose things a bit too. I personally run Strelok+ , and FWIW, find it just as usefull as shooter or any of those other $10+ apps. You would be amazed at how much practice you can get accomplished at home. The best bet is to take a class. Look through the LEO sections at your local Community College for cheap classes. I took a 2 day "precision rifle" class put on the local swat sniper instructor through my community college for like $80 + we needed...200rds of ammo? (still had 40rds left over) spread out over two days, it atleast helps with technique and holds, etc...

 

[mark5pt56]

I wouldn't get wrapped around shooting "x" number of rounds verses doing what has been mentioned above. As you work on positions, etc. dry fire them, then shoot until you feel comfortable or if you only have x number available for that session, dry fire them some more. Like SS mentioned-what are you doing with those rounds? I would say consistent frequency would be better. If you are training for a match, condition yourself so you aren't exhausted half way through it.

 

[jameybaxter]

the quantity of the rounds is almost irrelevant as to the quality of the shots and the time allotted for the range trip. Any idiot can go blast 100 rounds.

If I shot 100 rounds I would be out there all day long.

Most of shooting is mental, then mechanical. It isn't like practicing your golf swing. Shooting 100 rounds with a minor flaw in your physical setup will cause errors, but there are MANY different ways to shoot and many positions to shoot from. It also depends on where you are in your progression as a shooter, and what your goal is.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I do 5 rds w/o the can then 5 rds with. The next trip it's the other way around. Rain, shine, cold or hot.
Over laying a weeks worth of targets gets you average group size. Wish I was a <1 moa all day every day shooter.

 

[limamike56]

For me less seems to be more.

 

[VoxPatriam]

Decent read on the same topic for you.
Train like a samurai: Ten Arrows « breachbangclear.com

 

[mark5pt56]

Decent read on the same topic for you.
Train like a samurai: Ten Arrows « breachbangclear.com

On a different topic, when I used to powerlift, I figured this out quickly.

 

[M40_A1]

I try to make a point of getting to the range at least once a week. I take 20 rounds with me but plan to shoot 10. I shoot varying distances. My objective is to maintain my wind reading "abilities" (LOL). The fundamentals ALWAYS come in to play, whether the target is at 100 or 600 yards, or the wind is zero or 20 mph across. Less is more, just make every shot meaningful. You don't have to get a fancy log book. Just a sheet of paper and write the pertinent information isn a way you can easily reference it later. If money and components were no object, however, I'd shoot more, more often. But, I'd still keep my round count per session on the low side to make each shot mentally significant.

BTW, you CANNOT equate hand gun point shooting to aimed precision rifle. Point shooting REQUIRES hundreds of rounds per session, and often. You will never learn muscle memory with a few shots here and there.

 

[VoxPatriam]

On a different topic, when I used to powerlift, I figured this out quickly.

Absolutely. Sometimes less really is more. Obviously this doesn't apply to everything, but I believe the principle is sound.

 

[noahmercy]

Thanks, guys! For the record, the "100 rounds" was more a representative number than a hard one. I know there are weeks that I may have only fifty or even twenty.

I utilize extensive dry-fire practice with handguns, but I never felt it would provide as much benefit with long guns. From the comments on here, it would appear I was wrong, and it's time to get some snap caps! That will certainly help during the weeks when I can't get to the range due to deep snow conditions. (Hey, eventually I hope to get in good enough shape that I can hump my rifle and ruck on snow shoes, but right now 3-6 feet of the white stuff on the range keeps me home!)

As to stopping when you are doing everything right...I guess I've done that on several occasions without realizing it. I have made some great shots with rimfire rifles and pistols over the years, and invariably I pack it in for the day after having made those shots. With centerfire though, I confess to having doggedly burned through boxes of ammo trying to "force" a rifle to shoot where I want, not knowing which detail (shooter, rifle, ammo, optic) might be thwarting me. I guess I should approach shooting more like I do load development; work on one variable at a time in small increments until it is no longer a factor (or its potential to disrupt groups is minimized).

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Thanks, guys! For the record, the "100 rounds" was more a representative number than a hard one. I know there are weeks that I may have only fifty or even twenty.

I utilize extensive dry-fire practice with handguns, but I never felt it would provide as much benefit with long guns. From the comments on here, it would appear I was wrong, and it's time to get some snap caps! That will certainly help during the weeks when I can't get to the range due to deep snow conditions. (Hey, eventually I hope to get in good enough shape that I can hump my rifle and ruck on snow shoes, but right now 3-6 feet of the white stuff on the range keeps me home!)

As to stopping when you are doing everything right...I guess I've done that on several occasions without realizing it. I have made some great shots with rimfire rifles and pistols over the years, and invariably I pack it in for the day after having made those shots. With centerfire though, I confess to having doggedly burned through boxes of ammo trying to "force" a rifle to shoot where I want, not knowing which detail (shooter, rifle, ammo, optic) might be thwarting me. I guess I should approach shooting more like I do load development; work on one variable at a time in small increments until it is no longer a factor (or its potential to disrupt groups is minimized).

You really can't work on one variable at a time, since the act of firing is an integrated act with many things supporting sight alignment and trigger control. You can address prevalent issues, such as trigger control; but, that's not the point. The point is, every group you shoot, where shots actually do not intersect point of aim, indicates a multitude of shooter errors; and, it is these errors which must be addressed if progress is to be seen. Think about that. Unless all shots go through the same hole, the group is nothing more than an overall impression of shot misplacement. This fact makes it important to have a data book handy to record all calls and shots so that you can see trends while shooting. For example, vertical strings, horizontal strings, and shots outside of the group are patterns revealing in most cases the possible cause/s for such error; and, when you do indeed correctly identify the cause/s of error, you will naturally undertake to not make the error again, that's to say, if you shoot a vertical string, knowing that inconsistent stock pressure can be a cause for this error you might concentrate on resting the entire weight of you head on the stock. At any rate, get a data book, or a High Power Rifle Score Book and annotate it at every range session. From this you will actually see your progress, you will build confidence, and you will better understand the sight adjustment required for wind and weather conditions which you have observed on earlier sessions. Bottom-line, do not dismiss the data book. Get one; and, get a highly qualified coach or mentor to show you how to properly annotate the book.

Remember "practice" is shot to shot analysis. Either the bullet path intersects line of sight or it does not intersect line of sight. If it intersects then the shooter's practice or effort has produced a satisfactory result. It the shot does not intersect line of sight then the cause of shot misplacement must be discerned, or the shooter must concentrate better on what is needed to accomplish the task. I don't think practice is ever finished, even when the results are satisfactory. The more we do something the better we can do it, if we pause to analyze rather than just shoot again to repeat the mistake.

One more thing, to correct error you need to know the possible causes for shooter error. A manual on basic rifle marksmanship with a section on shooter/target analysis will list the possible causes of error for both horizontal and vertical strings, which can make troubleshooting more productive. i'd suggest you buy the USAMU's Service Rifle Guide available from the CMP. This guide will indeed guide you to get the most satisfaction from your participation in the shooting sports.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Fall in straight behind your rifle (spine and bore parallel) with bipod loaded while NPA is on your target and completely relaxed (no muscle tension)... check.
Press the trigger straight back while at the bottom of your breathing cycle... click

Stand up and repeat... until you get it down perfectly. Without doing anything different send a live one down range for verification.

Once you become a master at the above move toward shooting positions you commonly find yourself in while searching for ways to increase your stability in each... experiment.

See Rifle’s Only DVD’s for a more in depth explanation of the above or better yet enroll in a course and get it straight from Jacob Bynum.

 

[ZiaHunter]

I am the range at least one day each weekend since my work schedule doe not permit me to go during the week. I spend most weekday evenings at the reloading bench. I always try to have a plan when I go to the range with certain objectives in mind and think about them during the week. Whether its working on a certain position, breathing, load development, etc. I spend the first few minutes checking my fundamentals and dry firing. That generally gives me an indication whether I am ready to live fire. If not I start over again. I don't predetermine how many rounds I plan on shooting that day but certainly bring enough ammo in case I choose to shoot more. I live in the SW and we may be shooting in near freezing temps or at 103 degrees as was the case last weekend. I keep a log of how the rifles and ammo perform at different temperatures. This has been very helpful in determining which powders to select.

I always start live fire with checking my cold bore and 100 yard zero and then shoot a number of groups at 100 to check my precision before going to longer distances. There are some days where I shoot very well and those that I don't. On those days I usually cut the session short and go back an analyze what I was doing wrong. I am a cyclist and ride 60 to 90 miles over the course of a weekend and its funny on the days that I am a little tired and relaxed is when I shoot the best.

 

[duhk23]

Quality over quantity. Space it out.

 

[wrangler5]

If you are limited in either time or money (or both, it sounds like) it might be worth checking out Lanny Bassham's CDs on Mental Management for the shooting sports (not sure what he calls 'em now, but they're on his web site.) He won Olympic silver in '72 and gold in '76 in smallbore rifle. He claims to have lost the gold in '72 because he lost his cool on the first (prone) stage - that despite having shot in international competitions for years, the Olympics was just a different deal and he wasn't prepared for it mentally. So he spent the next 4 years developing his mental game, which paid off in '76.

One of his techniques is what I'd call comprehensive dry firing - not just aiming and pulling the trigger but working to imagine everything going on while you're in the process of doing that. For him it was imagining himself at a match with all of the attendant sights, sounds and smells. He was ROTC in college and on the Army AMU before and during his Olympic matches, but says that after his gold medal the Army took him off the team and sent him out to be a supply officer somewhere in order to broaden his military experience. His new post was hours from a shooting range, but he wasn't ready to quit shooting. He claims that he spent a year just doing regular but comprehensive dry firing 5-6 days a week, and then went to and won the national championship without having fired a live round for a year. And he claims to have done the same thing the next year. (I haven't been able to find records of smallbore champions from that era to verify this, but I think it's at least plausible, given his level of competence and experience.)

His Mental Management CDs seem expensive, but there's about 5 hours of training on 'em, and if you think in terms of the number of boxes of ammo they cost and the benefit you can get without having to fire as many rounds, they're a pretty good deal. I used his techniques (then on cassette tapes) when I was shooting NRA High Power matches in the '80s and '90s (200/300/600 yards, iron sights, M1-A match rifle in 308) and can testify that they helped when I put in my time. The best 600 yard target I ever shot was a 196-5X. On that day I was using his techniques as well as I ever did, and it was the easiest target I ever shot - which is what he says happens when everything is clicking. I thought it was pretty good for a practicing tax lawyer.

Anyway, it might be worth looking into. (I have no connection to Mr Bassham beyond having a brother in law who also lives in Texas.)

 

[M40_A1]

For him it was imagining himself at a match with all of the attendant sights, sounds and smells.

Interesting. I know for myself that just the smell of gun smoke gets my heart pumping, and it takes some effort to counteract it (mind over matter).

I've also considered having a recording of range sounds to use during snapping in, especially for junior shooters to use as I'm sure even the sounds of competition shooting affect the human body through the mind as well.

 

[mark5pt56]

Interesting. I know for myself that just the smell of gun smoke gets my heart pumping, and it takes some effort to counteract it (mind over matter).

I've also considered having a recording of range sounds to use during snapping in, especially for junior shooters to use as I'm sure even the sounds of competition shooting affect the human body through the mind as well.

You know what Gunny Hathcock said

down arrow symbol(sig line)

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Interesting. I know for myself that just the smell of gun smoke gets my heart pumping, and it takes some effort to counteract it (mind over matter).

I've also considered having a recording of range sounds to use during snapping in, especially for junior shooters to use as I'm sure even the sounds of competition shooting affect the human body through the mind as well.

Good luck figuring it out. I mean that sincerely. In all my appearances at the 200 yard line to shoot the standing event, I have had an inclination to just vomit. I'm a pile of nerves. I've addressed the issue most successfully with a blind call and plot exercise, but, still sometimes, the sights and sounds of the match distract me, overcoming where my focus needs to be. Then, the adrenalin is triggered. When that happens, I have a problem settling down enough to just be able to hold the 7 ring.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I suggest one round each session, however often as your schedule permits.

The idea that you will be firing multiple rounds can lead to the mental habit of thinking that missing is OK, you'll get it with the next one.

When you only have one shot, you need to make it work, period. Working on this, it may be possible to make every shot work.

In any case, get away from the idea of firing repeatedly as part of a series of shots. Maybe you can trick your mind into doing this all several times a session; I mean get up do something else, then come back and shoot another single shot.

When I shoot a match and am required to shoot repeatedly, I treat each shot as a complete match, which I win or lose every time I fire. It's not as easy as it might sound; playing mind games with your own mind.

Greg