Bighorn Origin vs APR G2

[03pierce17]

Greetings everyone, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post. I enjoy the endless amount of valueable information shared here. I have searched and read everything I could on the titled subject and still have some remaining questions. A little background on myself I'm a retired Marine scout sniper and I'm eager to start a custom 6.5 CM build of my own. At the moment I'm focusing on selecting an action which has proven to be a more difficult task than exspected. This is due to the sheer volume of high quality actions available today.

I am trying to stay around the $850-$900 mark with my action purchase. I would love to go for it all and get something like an impact precision 737R .308 BF I just don't know if I can justify spending the extra $. So I have been looking at the Origin and APR G2.

APR G2:

Full DLC coated, CRF, mechanical ejection, bolt face appears to be a copy of Ed Browns model 704 bolt design, side bolt release, fluted bolt, pinned rail 8-40 base screws, pinned recoil lug, 1 1/16 x 20 tpi threads, .062 firing pin dia, strait threaded bolt knob.

Thoughts- Not a very big following. I've researched this forum and others through google and have not found an many reviewers talking about or showing videos of their APR G2 actions. All of the Alamo builds I have seen on YouTube we're all Remington 700s trued or Curtis Axioms. It would be nice to see someone running one of these actions to see how smooth they run and how well they feed. Also removing material at one of the two lugs for placement of the extractor looks as though it could compromise the strength of the two lug system. I'm not a professional gun smith or certified in metalergy, it just created some concern. Considering it's an Ed Brown design it could be solid and just my own anxiety bothering me.

BigHorn Origin- I won't bore you with the details it's a highly appraised action here on SH. I did have a few questions about the action though. Why is there a sight hole in the bolt to where you can see the firing pin spring assembly? Appears to be visible when bolt is open pulled slightly to halfway back. This looks like a welcome entrance for dirt and other debris to work itself into the critical components. Has anyone had any issues with the pin for the interchangeable bolt heads trying to walk out on them during normal firing and manipulation of the bolt? And finally the salt bath nitrided bolt and receiver. Is this a good coating that has lasted on your origins. I read on some threads that the temperatures required to execute the nitride treatment can compromise the heat treating of the metals in turn softening the metal.

These are all initial thoughts and not bashing either action. If you have had the chance to own or work with one of these actions your input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks ahead of time,

Matt

Images

#1 Bighorn bolt head
#2 APR G2 bolt head
#3 LAW M704 bolt face

 

[Another Casual]

I'm happy with my origin. As far has the boly heads working out, the firing pin goes through the cross pin that holds the bolt head in place. Basically the bolt head isn't coming off unless you've taking out the firing pin and then the cross pin.

No complaints about the nitride coating here, but mine isn't high round count by any stretch.

Hope this helps.

 

[03pierce17]

Great that definitely helps thank you. What about the other hole in the bolt does it serve a purpose, and do you get any dirt or grime in there because of it? This is a TL3i s the Origin the same?

 

[hereinaz]

Buddy has all three. Tells me the Alamo runs smoother than Origin. And would buy Alamo over Origin, but TL3 over Alamo.

 

[03pierce17]

Wow! Very interesting, It would be nice to see a video on one cycling through a mag. I think aesthetically they look great I like the deeper flutes, DLC coating, and to hear they cycle really smooth is really a plus. Are there more APR G2 users out there that just don't bring them up as much as people do their Bighorn actions?

 

[b6graham]

Wow! Very interesting, It would be nice to see a video on one cycling through a mag. I think aesthetically they look great I like the deeper flutes, DLC coating, and to hear they cycle really smooth is really a plus. Are there more APR G2 users out there that just don't bring them up as much as people do their Bighorn actions?

unlikely. i doubt there are anywhere near the number. one, its Bighorn. two savage prefits. three shouldered barrels, 4 interchangeable boltheads with TL3

 

[03pierce17]

Those are great points on Bighorn, and being that they are more widely used I suspect they would have a large support team to match their customer base. There is a nice video of a TL3 review by SHLowlight displaying how well it cycles on YouTube. I would assume the Origin would exemplify the same cycling ability. On APR's website it says the G2 excepts savage pre-fits, would this include shouldered barrels? Or is it simply stating barrel nut pre-fits?

 

[03pierce17]

Does anyone have pics of an APR G2 disassembled? Curious as to if it has a bayonet style firing pin assembly and ease of breakdown. Also any thoughts on Bighorn floating bolthead design vs APR fixed bolt head. My thought process seems to think less moving parts, equals more reliability in the sense that there are less things to possibly break or malfunction. Also can anyone with an APR G2 tell me if the bolt is solid with no holes for carbon and brass shavings to work their way in through.

 

[hereinaz]

Those are great points on Bighorn, and being that they are more widely used I suspect they would have a large support team to match their customer base. There is a nice video of a TL3 review by SHLowlight displaying how well it cycles on YouTube. I would assume the Origin would exemplify the same cycling ability. On APR's website it says the G2 excepts savage pre-fits, would this include shouldered barrels? Or is it simply stating barrel nut pre-fits?

Origin is not as smooth as TL3 per my buddy. He showed me the Alamo and Origin cycle by tipping the rifle and the Alamo was better than the Origin. I really wanna get my hands on one.

You can use barrel nuts or shouldered barrels on any standard sort of rifle. You can find shouldered prefits for Bighorn easier than Alamo. Savage prefits work great in both.

 

[03pierce17]

Thanks hereinaz that's great info! I'm really wanting to get my hands on one to and feel how smooth they are. Good point about barrels too.

 

[Another Casual]

The bolt hole you're referencing is likely there to route gas away from the shooter and down through the mag in the event in the case of a burst primer or over pressure situation. Similar to how Mausers and other actions do it. My one gripe with the Origin is the amount of cock on close it has with the trigger I'm using (super 700). Its easy enough to time it, just haven't worked up the nerve to do it.

 

[03pierce17]

That makes total sense now thanks for that insight on the over pressure design and heads up on trigger timing. I'll have to do a little research on trigger compatibility before buying one and trigger timing because that's all new to me.

 

[Overclok79]

My G2 action and Criterion barrel have been a solid sub MOA gun. I've only put 40 rds through it so far, but I am very happy and have zero issues to report. Bolt Disassembly is easy. Just rotate the shroud 90* clockwise? and it comes right out. No tools needed.

 

[Zermatt Arms]

BigHorn Origin- I won't bore you with the details it's a highly appraised action here on SH. I did have a few questions about the action though. 1) Why is there a sight hole in the bolt to where you can see the firing pin spring assembly? Appears to be visible when bolt is open pulled slightly to halfway back. This looks like a welcome entrance for dirt and other debris to work itself into the critical components. 2) Has anyone had any issues with the pin for the interchangeable bolt heads trying to walk out on them during normal firing and manipulation of the bolt? And finally the salt bath nitrided bolt and receiver. 3) Is this a good coating that has lasted on your origins. I read on some threads that the temperatures required to execute the nitride treatment can compromise the heat treating of the metals in turn softening the metal.

1) The port (hole) in the bolt body is there for safety reasons. In an over pressure situation, the gases will flow back through the bolt and out that port into the magazine well which will direct debris away from your face. Any pieces that continue to flow back are captured by the shroud which has holes drilled in it to collect said debris.

To address your concern, we haven't seen this to cause any issues collecting dirt or dust.

2) The cross pin is secured by a combination of tension (wavy washer between bolt body and gas block) and solid "retaining pin" (the firing pin shaft runs through a bore in the cross pin to retain it). As long as the bolt is properly assembled, the cross pin will not move.

3) Nitride is not a coating. Nitride is a surface treatment and the black left behind is merely a byproduct of the process. It will absolutely show wear in contact points and leave shiny areas. This is most commonly seen on the bolt body as it's in motion and easily removable to see every surface. Nirtide is the final process these actions go through. The material we are using for these products receives and reacts to nitride very well and creates a VERY safe product. There is no concern necessary for compromising the heat treat condition to an unsafe level.

If you have any questions regarding our products, please let us know and we will happily work through them with you. There's a lot of information here. Some good, some great and some...you get it. If we see suspect information, we do our best to intercept it and correct it before it gets out of hand.

Thank you - Ray

 

[jeredharlan]

There arent likely many running the G2 because its only been available for a few months. I built my first custom gun with one and am very new to bolt guns so I may not have much to offer, but would be glad to help. PM me and I can text pictures or videos.

 

[03pierce17]

Thanks Ray for touching up on all those details. Overclok79 thanks for the update on your G2 that setup seems to be performing very well. I appreciate the pic looks like it's putting out some nice groups, and sounds like disassembly is as easy as any other custom. Jeredharlan thank you PM sent, and I was unaware that the G2 was still pretty fresh to the precision world.

 

[03pierce17]

Does anyone have any opinions on a fixed style mechanical ejector in the Origin vs moving spring style in the G2? Also any pics showing how thick the bolt stop metal is on each. I found these two images showing the different style ejectectors. This maybe a question more fitting for the gunsmith section.