Bighorn TL3 barrel swap question

[catalyst81]

So I have a Bighorn TL3 on the way. I'm having a smith chamber it with a 6.5 CM Bartlein barrel. I've been watching the prefit (Bighorn) testing thread here and reading a bit and has led me to a question. I was considering picking up a Tikka T3X for hunting, but I am now wondering if a prefit Criterion barrel along with a lighter stock would be a good alternative option to the Tikka. Installation of the prefit barrel seems simple enough. What I am unsure of is how difficult would it be to switch out (back and forth) the Bartlein barrel with the pre fit barrel? Would it be too much of a pain (or even possible for me to accomplish without the help of a smith) or could this be a viable option rather than buying a separate hunting gun?

 

[Ledzep]

Most likely your Bartlein is a shouldered barrel, yes?

If that's the case you're going to need an action wrench that slides in the bolt raceway, a torque wrench, and a barrel vise. For the Savage nut style prefit, you need a barrel nut wrench in conjunction with an action wrench and/or barrel vise. Obviously both methods require headspace gauges.


Just understand that swapping barrels in this manner is likely going to require removing the optic and rezeroing every time. By the time you buy the tools, a prefit, and a new stock, you might already be in Tikka T3 hunting rifle territory for price. I guess you'd get to decide between the hassle associated with barrel changes vs. the price of a new scope/rings at that point.

 

[padom]

If you use Bighorns 12 Point barrel nut you dont need any special barrel nut wrench. Just a 1 1/8" wrench you might have in your tool box or can pick up locally for like $7-$8. You will not need headspace gauges for the shouldered Bartlein. Just screw it off and torque it back on when you want to shoot it. For the prefit barrel, you will need headspace gauges but its easy to install. You can buy a barrel vise from OTM Tactical for like $60 and a rear entry action wrench from Patriot Valley or Bighorn for $85.

Prefit Barrel Install

1) Screw the nut all the way onto the barrel
2) lock barrel into barrel vise
3) screw the barrel half way onto the action
4) Insert the GO gauge into the action and close the bolt
5) Screw the barrel all the way onto the action till it stops on the GO gauge
6) tighten the barrel nut tight against the action
7) Put your rear entry action wrench into the action and torque barrel nut
8) Insert NO GO and make sure the bolt doesnt close. If it doesnt your done.

 

[catalyst81]

Thanks for the info. It doesn't look like swapping the barrels would be a big deal or take a lot of time. Pretty cool. The main deterrent seems to be the need to remove and rezero the scope after every swap, which could be annoying if I want to do some long range shooting during hunting season.

 

[BoilerUP]

Here's a related stoopid question that is tangentially related to OP's post:

Does a TL3 action fit in a standard 700SA stock/chassis inlet, or does it require its own inlet?

 

[Supersubes]

Here's a related stoopid question that is tangentially related to OP's post:

Does a TL3 action fit in a standard 700SA stock/chassis inlet, or does it require its own inlet?

The receiver fits fine, but the root of the bolt handle fouls on some stocks. The handle is round like a surgeon, vs the Remington which is flat bottomed and squared sided.

 

[ICU22250]

If you go ahead and just have Josh at PVA spin you up another shouldered barrel in the hunting caliber and barrel contour you want, it would make the barrel swaps even easier as it would be custom fit to the TL3...

 

[christopher.dow]

Here's a related stoopid question that is tangentially related to OP's post:

Does a TL3 action fit in a standard 700SA stock/chassis inlet, or does it require its own inlet?

The bolt handle needs a different cut. XLR handles this well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Sheldon N]

Thanks for the info. It doesn't look like swapping the barrels would be a big deal or take a lot of time. Pretty cool. The main deterrent seems to be the need to remove and rezero the scope after every swap, which could be annoying if I want to do some long range shooting during hunting season.

Another option to seriously consider is just getting shouldered barrels. You lose the need for a go gauge, barrel nut, and wrench for the barrel nut. Slightly higher cost but much more convenient and much more repeatable having the barrel on and off.

I run multiple different shouldered barrels on my TL3 actions, Just clamp the barrel in a vise, action wrench to unscrew the barrel, screw on the new barrel and torque to spec. Takes about 5 minutes. I leave the scope on the gun when swapping barrels. Each barrel has its own point of impact but is very repeatable where it hits once torqued on. I can dial in my offset on the scope, check zero (usually within 0.1 mil) then shoot. If it's just a range day often I won't even bother to check zero. Just dial my known dope and make corrections on the fly if needed to get hits.

 

[cjgemm]

plus

equals no removal of your scope.

 

[Mordamer]

I have a .223 AI barrel and a 6.5x47 Lapua barrel both are shouldered barrels. I remove the stock and I can swap barrels without touching the scope. I have recorded what my point of impact shift is between barrels and it is very repeatable when I torque the barrels to 65 ft-lb each time. Last time I swapped from the .223 AI to the 6.5x47 Lapua I set my scope turrets back to exactly where I had recorded and took it to the range. First shot I took was a first round hit at 840 yards.

If you have a barrel vise where you can clamp on the barrel past the end of the scope there is no need to mess with the scope except to set your turrets for that barrel.

 

[Josh0369]

Not to hijack the thread but I have an additional question regarding the shouldered barrels? Theoretically could you take a shouldered barrel with a brake off of a bighorn and spin it on a buddy's bighorn action?

 

[kthomas]

Another option to seriously consider is just getting shouldered barrels. You lose the need for a go gauge, barrel nut, and wrench for the barrel nut. Slightly higher cost but much more convenient and much more repeatable having the barrel on and off.

I run multiple different shouldered barrels on my TL3 actions, Just clamp the barrel in a vise, action wrench to unscrew the barrel, screw on the new barrel and torque to spec. Takes about 5 minutes. I leave the scope on the gun when swapping barrels. Each barrel has its own point of impact but is very repeatable where it hits once torqued on. I can dial in my offset on the scope, check zero (usually within 0.1 mil) then shoot. If it's just a range day often I won't even bother to check zero. Just dial my known dope and make corrections on the fly if needed to get hits.

This. I personally don't understand the hype around pre-fit barrels and barrel nuts. Very easy to swap out a shouldered barrel when you have the right tools. Arguably no harder than a pre-fit with nut.

Bonus with the TL3 is you can order a chambered up shouldered barrel to your door, gunsmith doesn't even need to see the action.

 

[Sheldon N]

Not to hijack the thread but I have an additional question regarding the shouldered barrels? Theoretically could you take a shouldered barrel with a brake off of a bighorn and spin it on a buddy's bighorn action?

Short answer, yes.

Bighorn has done a great job of holding machining tolerances to the point that the TL3 actions are well within 0.001 of each other, and from what I've heard from gunsmiths more realistically within 0.0005. I don't know if they can guarantee that ALL of them will be exactly the same or that Bighorn endorses this approach, but from a practical perspective I've got a high level of confidence in the action to action consistency.

I've got a pair of TL-3's that headspace and time (engraving location) exactly the same. I have a couple PVA barrels which were chambered based on only having one out of my two TL-3's in hand, but both barrels work perfectly on either action. I have another couple barrels from a different gunsmith that were chambered off the spec of someone elses's TL3 that he'd had in the shop. Just talked to him about it in advance, went over the specifics, and since he'd had several TL3's in hand that were all pretty much identical he just chambered the barrel to match those never having had my action in hand. The headspace on my barrels was perfect, and the engraving timing even lines up in the correct location too. Now obviously this is a non-traditional approach and if things didn't match perfectly that was on me not on the gunsmith, but it worked out great. I recently bought a used barrel from another shooter who had a 7SAUM chambered by a different gunsmith for his TL3. Again, the barrel fit perfectly, headspaced exactly the same on my action and the engraving lined up in the exact same spot. Another incidental story... had a fining pin break on my TL3 and discovered it at a match. Pulled the bolt out of a buddy's TL3 and swapped it back and forth between his action and my action shooting the entire match. Worked perfectly and when I got home the fired brass was exactly in spec same as my normal measurements - headspace matched perfectly.

I'd have no hesitation swapping barrels between actions or buying a second hand barrel from another TL3 action. Obviously you want to check things as you go along, but in my experience the TL3 seems to be plug and play.

 

[Supersubes]

I took this pic of all the sample actions that bighorn had on their table at shot this year. They all had identical thread starts, which is why the barrel off of one will index on another.

 

[Josh0369]

Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you gentlemen.

 

[Dlwheel]

Short answer, yes.

Bighorn has done a great job of holding machining tolerances to the point that the TL3 actions are well within 0.001 of each other, and from what I've heard from gunsmiths more realistically within 0.0005. I don't know if they can guarantee that ALL of them will be exactly the same or that Bighorn endorses this approach, but from a practical perspective I've got a high level of confidence in the action to action consistency.

I've got a pair of TL-3's that headspace and time (engraving location) exactly the same. I have a couple PVA barrels which were chambered based on only having one out of my two TL-3's in hand, but both barrels work perfectly on either action. I have another couple barrels from a different gunsmith that were chambered off the spec of someone elses's TL3 that he'd had in the shop. Just talked to him about it in advance, went over the specifics, and since he'd had several TL3's in hand that were all pretty much identical he just chambered the barrel to match those never having had my action in hand. The headspace on my barrels was perfect, and the engraving timing even lines up in the correct location too. Now obviously this is a non-traditional approach and if things didn't match perfectly that was on me not on the gunsmith, but it worked out great. I recently bought a used barrel from another shooter who had a 7SAUM chambered by a different gunsmith for his TL3. Again, the barrel fit perfectly, headspaced exactly the same on my action and the engraving lined up in the exact same spot. Another incidental story... had a fining pin break on my TL3 and discovered it at a match. Pulled the bolt out of a buddy's TL3 and swapped it back and forth between his action and my action shooting the entire match. Worked perfectly and when I got home the fired brass was exactly in spec same as my normal measurements - headspace matched perfectly.

I'd have no hesitation swapping barrels between actions or buying a second hand barrel from another TL3 action. Obviously you want to check things as you go along, but in my experience the TL3 seems to be plug and play.

Interesting about there firing pin breaking. I have a TL3 with about 2000 live rounds on it and maybe another 500 dry fire. Mine broke as well. Went to the range and no-fire. Evidently broke after the last range day. Aaron said he had not seen any firing pins break at the thick part of the neck before. Obviously he replaced it. Aaron is great to work with. Just surprised to hear of yours breaking as well.


As to swapping barrels. My son and I had three TL3's between us and 6 different barrels. Not only did they swap w/o issue, even the brakes were perfectly aligned from action to action. I also bought a Lapua Dasher barrel chambered for the TL3 and it was perfect as well. Josh did my initial barrels; since then I use Andy Folk with The Firm.

I understand Impact actions will do likewise; but I haven't tested that yet. You can't go wrong with either action, IMHO.

 

[Sheldon N]

Interesting about there firing pin breaking. I have a TL3 with about 2000 live rounds on it and maybe another 500 dry fire. Mine broke as well. Went to the range and no-fire. Evidently broke after the last range day. Aaron said he had not seen any firing pins break at the thick part of the neck before. Obviously he replaced it. Aaron is great to work with. Just surprised to hear of yours breaking as well.

Mine broke after about 2k live rounds and maybe 5-10k dry fires. Have continued on dry firing, just bought myself a spare shroud with complete firing pin and spring assembly and keep it in the range bag. That way if I ever have an issue again I'll always be able to swap out in 5 seconds and continue shooting. Aaron and crew at Bighorn took care of it promptly and without issue. I've broken a Defiance firing pin from dry firing also so It's not just a Bighorn thing.

 

[arm017]

I took this pic of all the sample actions that bighorn had on their table at shot this year. They all had identical thread starts, which is why the barrel off of one will index on another.

beautiful; and why I bought a 2nd TL3 action- Like sheldon says- just have your smith spin up shouldered barrels and you are free to swap between whatever you like. - I have 6.5 x 47, 6x47, 6.5 CM, 223 rem thus far. But the TL3 is such a beautiful action that gives so many possibilities - RE padom's thread with the barrel nut prefits.

 

[cjgemm]

This. I personally don't understand the hype around pre-fit barrels and barrel nuts. Very easy to swap out a shouldered barrel when you have the right tools. Arguably no harder than a pre-fit with nut.

Bonus with the TL3 is you can order a chambered up shouldered barrel to your door, gunsmith doesn't even need to see the action.

Hype and Savage prefits/nuts in the same sentence, who would've thunk...

 

[Kane0519]

plus

equals no removal of your scope.

Have you ever tried loctite to secure the barrel nut to the barrel? I have a pre-fit and a TL3 that I want to try it on, then machine flat into the muzzle end, just like Reubenski.

 

[cjgemm]

Have you ever tried loctite to secure the barrel nut to the barrel? I have a pre-fit and a TL3 that I want to try it on, then machine flat into the muzzle end, just like Reubenski.

yes

 

[PistoleroJesse]

Isn't this the solution people are looking for?
http://www.americanrifle.com/product/barloc-barrel-quick-change-device-for-1-063-x-20tpi-thread/

 

[idahoorion]

I've received my switchlug from West Texas Ordinance, just have to get the action pinned and I'll have one existing barrel reshouldered for it and another barrel spun up from a blank. I'll report in once I get some hands on. I currently do switches with regular shouldered barrels and have used (still am) with nuts on another rifle. hopefully the switchlug will make this simple and with just one small torque wrench a super simple solution.
Idahoorion

 

[m6z]

So on the shouldered barrels you use the action wrench to torque the action onto the barrel? The barrel fixed in barrel blocks/barrel vise.

 

[padom]

So on the shouldered barrels you use the action wrench to torque the action onto the barrel? The barrel fixed in barrel blocks/barrel vise.

Yes

 

[Another Casual]

Isn't this the solution people are looking for?
http://www.americanrifle.com/product/barloc-barrel-quick-change-device-for-1-063-x-20tpi-thread/

I definitely see this being a big jump for switching barrels regularly.
I'm pretty interested in the TL3 and now the Origin, and the barloc. Only thought at this point is that the rail on the bighorn actions extend beyond the recoil lug. I think that might interefer with the barloc. Based on the renderings of the barloc on the nucleus it looks like it protrudes up directly in front of the lug past the base of the rail making believe it would interefer with the bighorn rail. Time will tell!

 

[Conrad]

I definitely see this being a big jump for switching barrels regularly.
I'm pretty interested in the TL3 and now the Origin, and the barloc. Only thought at this point is that the rail on the bighorn actions extend beyond the recoil lug. I think that might interefer with the barloc. Based on the renderings of the barloc on the nucleus it looks like it protrudes up directly in front of the lug past the base of the rail making believe it would interefer with the bighorn rail. Time will tell!

This is a good observation. How are people sorting out the various switchlugs, barlocs, etc to work on the Bighorn TL3?

Thanks!

 

[m6z]

I definitely see this being a big jump for switching barrels regularly.
I'm pretty interested in the TL3 and now the Origin, and the barloc. Only thought at this point is that the rail on the bighorn actions extend beyond the recoil lug. I think that might interefer with the barloc. Based on the renderings of the barloc on the nucleus it looks like it protrudes up directly in front of the lug past the base of the rail making believe it would interefer with the bighorn rail. Time will tell!

That's why I'm hesitant to order a barloc.

Does bighorn offer a rail that doesn't extend past the face of the recoil lug?

 

[supercorndogs]

This. I personally don't understand the hype around pre-fit barrels and barrel nuts. Very easy to swap out a shouldered barrel when you have the right tools. Arguably no harder than a pre-fit with nut.

Bonus with the TL3 is you can order a chambered up shouldered barrel to your door, gunsmith doesn't even need to see the action.

There are probably lots of reasons a person chooses one over the other. I imagine the first for using a prefit with a barrel nut is price and availability. Another reason that pops up in my mind, is ease of removal. It is much easier to stick the barrel in a barrel vice like the viper vice, and remove a nut. Then to put the barrel in a vice and the action in an action wrench. I am kind of surprised everyone is so concerned about absolutely repeatable headspace. I keep a piece of brass that chambers a little tight to set mine up. I guess, to me, the buety of the jam nut on the barrel, is the same as on a sizing die, adjustability. I can set my chamber to my brass from firing number one.

I bet the biggest reason is you can get a decent barrel for the cost of a top quality blank, and most can't shoot the difference between the two.

 

[Conrad]

I guess what I’m getting at, is I wonder which system is going to become the go to for Bighorn prefits. Ideally, going forward you’re going to be able to order a shouldered prefit machined for such and such locking system.

 

[m6z]

The selling point for the shouldered Barloc is the fact that you only need an hex key to swap barrels. No barrel vise, no action wrench, no stock removal.

From someone that's just getting into precision bolt guns this is fantastic.

I've got a Bighorn Origin on order. My current options are:

Shouldered Barloc pre-fit from PVA - The only thing needed to install is a no-go headspace gauge and 5/32 hex key. Screw the barrel on snug by hand and torque the hex key. Verify headspace.

Shouldered pre-fit from PVA - I'll need to buy a barrel vise, an action wrench and a no-go gauge. The no-go gauge isn't required. I'd just like to be able to verify headspace after the barrel is torqued on.

Savage style pre-fit with Barloc - I'll have to buy the Barloc and a go and no-go headspace gauges.

Savage style pre-fit - I'll need to buy a barrel nut, barrel nut wrench, action wrench, go and no-go headspace gauges.

 

[padom]

The selling point for the shouldered Barloc is the fact that you only need an hex key to swap barrels. No barrel vise, no action wrench, no stock removal.

From someone that's just getting into precision bolt guns this is fantastic.

I've got a Bighorn Origin on order. My current options are:

Shouldered Barloc pre-fit from PVA - The only thing needed to install is a no-go headspace gauge and 5/32 hex key. Screw the barrel on snug by hand and torque the hex key. Verify headspace.

Shouldered pre-fit from PVA - I'll need to buy a barrel vise, an action wrench and a no-go gauge.

Savage style pre-fit with Barloc - I'll have to buy the Barloc and a go and no-go headspace gauges.

Savage style pre-fit - I'll need to buy a barrel nut, barrel nut wrench, action wrench, go and no-go headspace gauges.

You will NOT need any GO or No-Go gauges for a shouldered barrel from PVA. You screw it on and torque. The shoulder is what headspaces the barrel.

 

[m6z]

You will NOT need any GO or No-Go gauges for a shouldered barrel from PVA. You screw it on and torque. The shoulder is what headspaces the barrel.

You are correct. It's not a must. It's just conformation for my piece of mind.

 

[xTapouTx]

Sorry if I missed this above but what manufactures are making the shouldered barrels for Bighorn actions? A quick Google gets me to CBI however all their barrels appear to require the barrel nut.

Thanks all!

 

[WDE6mmShooter]

Patriot Valley Arms turns shouldered barrels for Bighorns.

 

[Dschapp44]

You will NOT need any GO or No-Go gauges for a shouldered barrel from PVA. You screw it on and torque. The shoulder is what headspaces the barrel.

What are you torquing these shouldered barrels to?

 

[Codiekfx400]

I torque mine to 75 ft lbs but realistically 45 to 110 ft lbs would do the trick. Don’t forget some kind of grease- anti seize to prevent galling the threads.

 

[amedeo1227]

Curious how the Barloc looks on the origin and TL3. About to order all my stuff for my build, and I’m hesitating. I am afraid I’m not thinking it through enough.

Want the switch barrel option, but afraid of marring the barrel/cerakote in a barrel vise.

 

[BullzeyeNJ]

Who besides PVA makes shouldered chambered barrels for the TL3 action ?

 

[Sutherlandsd]

Who besides PVA makes shouldered chambered barrels for the TL3 action ?

Keystone, Proof, Altus, the list is ever growing...

 

[drwood96]

Curious how the Barloc looks on the origin and TL3. About to order all my stuff for my build, and I’m hesitating. I am afraid I’m not thinking it through enough.

Want the switch barrel option, but afraid of marring the barrel/cerakote in a barrel vise.

I currently have the barrel nut Barloc as I got it before Origin prefits hit the market (Photos below). You'll need to order the action with the shorter rail or contact BigHorn to exchange it. It works but I would not call it a quick changing and the return to zero is about 1.0 mil. The shoulder version is a little faster but there’s a slight change in zero (0.1 - 0.2 mils).

After I shoot out this barrel, I’ll dropping the Barloc and go shouldered prefit exclusively. With action wrench and viper barrel vise, a barrel change takes 5 minutes and better RTZ.

 

[Steel head]

Nice looking rifle.

 

[BWB]

I posted BRAND NEW Shouldered Benchmark MTU barrel chambered in 6 Creed in the classifieds if anyone is looking for one ASAP. Torque it down and shoot!