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Gunsmithing Bighorn TL3 Stiff Bolt Close

EastCOYotes

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 10, 2019
419
148
Idalia Colorado
I have a new Bighorn TL3 and after installing a new TT Diamond trigger I notice that the bolt closes harder than I think it should. It’s not hard to close, but definitely more resistance than there should be.

I’ve read maybe this is related to timing the trigger to the action?

Maybe this will smooth out as things break in?
 
Do you have some lube on the lugs and the part of the firing pin assembly that rotates in the bolt body?
 
I do have the lugs lubed but haven’t actually disassembled the bolt to lubricate anything internally.

Maybe I’ll have a local smith look at it, not sure I wanna risk screwing up my new trigger by trying it myself.
 
Use the tail end of a set of calipers to measure how much cock on close you have on the firing pin.

How much does the firing pin protrude from the bolt when the handle is in the up position? How much does it protrude after you close the bolt? The difference between the two numbers is the amount of cock on close that you have.
 
Use the tail end of a set of calipers to measure how much cock on close you have on the firing pin.

How much does the firing pin protrude from the bolt when the handle is in the up position? How much does it protrude after you close the bolt? The difference between the two numbers is the amount of cock on close that you have.

I will check this tonight... if I measure a good amount what steps can I take to get rid of the cock on close?
 
I will check this tonight... if I measure a good amount what steps can I take to get rid of the cock on close?

The way you remove cock on close is by timing the trigger, which involves filing material off the sear. Apparently not too hard to do if you're careful and mechanically inclined (and willing to buy a new sear if you mess up and file off too much). Bighorn will also do it for you for a small fee if you send them your action/trigger.

The reason I suggested measuring is so you can tell whether that's the issue that needs to be addressed.
 
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I’ve had similar issues with a couple triggers...stone grinding the cocking piece fixed the issue. Have done this with three rifles. Not all were Bighorn. You can’t be haphazard with it but it isn’t difficult to do.
 
The TL3 is a bit harder to close than other actions. Nothing overly excessive though. I have a trigger tech in mine and its harder to clsoe than say an impact but nothing crazy.
 
Mind giving us the details? I may try to do same with mine.

It’s mentioned quite a bit in the bighorn origin thread.

I did buy a spare cocking piece from Bighorn just in case I screwed up filing the original cocking piece. It’s $25-35 from bighorn.

I’ll have to get pictures because it’s hard to explain with just words.

You need to file or dremel the ramped part of the cocking piece a little at a time until you are satisfied with the close. Maintaining the angle of the “ramp”. Then I polished it up

I’m not an expert and not even super mechanically inclined so please do more research and ask before you do it. But it worked for me

Only reason I didn’t send mine in was because at the time I was shooting damn near every other day and had a lot of matches coming up.

But it’s only $50 and they’ll do it 100% correctly
 
The TL3 is a bit harder to close than other actions. Nothing overly excessive though. I have a trigger tech in mine and its harder to clsoe than say an impact but nothing crazy.

I believe this is trigger related not TL3 related. All of my TL3's arent hard to close at all. They all have jewels in them. I pulled my TT out. I just like the Jewell at 8oz better.
 
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Thanks. I’ll check over in the Origin thread. I don’t remember seeing it, but hadn’t been there in a while.
 
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I believe this is trigger related not TL3 related. All of my TL3's arent hard to close at all. They all have jewels in them. I pulled my TT out. I just like the Jewell at 8oz better.

I agree from the way he's describing it. That aside, of the customs I've used, (Surgeon, Impact, Defiance, etc) The TL3 probably has one of if not the lightest bolt lifts, but one of the hardest bolt closes. But it's nothing major.
 
I have TT Diamonds in two different TL3 actions. Both have about 10 thousandths of firing pin movement for cock on close, and I would say that bolt close feels smooth and normal. Here's how they measure....

TL3 #1 = starting position 0.035 protrusion, fired/decocked -0.138 depth, closed bolt (cocked) 0.045 protrusion
TL3 #2 = starting position 0.041 protrusion, fired/decocked -0.142 depth, closed bolt (cocked) 0.051 protrusion
 
I agree from the way he's describing it. That aside, of the customs I've used, (Surgeon, Impact, Defiance, etc) The TL3 probably has one of if not the lightest bolt lifts, but one of the hardest bolt closes. But it's nothing major.

Which trigger are you using? I use jewell like Padom, and mine are exceptionally good on open and close.
 
I believe this is trigger related not TL3 related. All of my TL3's arent hard to close at all. They all have jewels in them. I pulled my TT out. I just like the Jewell at 8oz better.

Padom is right.... I experience this depending on the trigger on my tl3s. Some triggers do and some don’t.
 
Triggertech. Mine are good too. Maybe I made it sound worse than it is. My
Buddy uses a box and his feels the same. The Tl3 just has a harder close than other actions. Most action there’s an initial hump to cock on close and then it’s light. The tl3 is somewhat heavy the whole way I think because of the spring in the floating bolt head would be my guess. It’s very smooth and not bad at all but coming from an impact it was one of the first things I noticed.
 
Triggertech. Mine are good too. Maybe I made it sound worse than it is. My
Buddy uses a box and his feels the same. The Tl3 just has a harder close than other actions. Most action there’s an initial hump to cock on close and then it’s light. The tl3 is somewhat heavy the whole way I think because of the spring in the floating bolt head would be my guess. It’s very smooth and not bad at all but coming from an impact it was one of the first things I noticed.

You ever lube up the striker assembly? It’s under a thrust load when opening/closing.
 
I will check this tonight... if I measure a good amount what steps can I take to get rid of the cock on close?
Just send it to a professional. Send it to Bighorn; or TS Customs and others can do as well.

rates.JPG
 
most likely trigger timing.


you can send it to bighorn for $50 and they'll time it perfectly and send it back out same day.


or if you are a DIY guy it's possible. i timed my origin
They also sell the cocking piece separately in .010 increments now. I may be off on the increments but ray said they have different lengths available
 
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They also sell the cocking piece separately in .010 increments now. I may be off on the increments but ray said they have different lengths available

I remember a while back they mentioned they were going to start doing that - I hadn’t followed up though. That’s a good way to go then
 
Confirmed that you can get a different sized cocking piece. I just spoke with them and if you take the cocking pin protrusion measurements described above they will send you a new cocking pin for the measurements that you need. This is the route I’m planning on going.
 
So I’ve got about 0.030” of cock on close, I’ll follow up with what I get back from Bighorn.
 

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They also sell the cocking piece separately in .010 increments now. I may be off on the increments but ray said they have different lengths available
Thanks for this little tidbit.
I've got a little more cock-on-close on my origin than I'd like. I didn't feel like messing with filing the action though.
I planned to send it to have them time the trigger this fall. I might try this as an interim step.

Steve
 
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Thanks for this little tidbit.
I've got a little more cock-on-close on my origin than I'd like. I didn't feel like messing with filing the action though.
I planned to send it to have them time the trigger this fall. I might try this as an interim step.

Steve


you won't have to send it in if you get a different cocking piece that is the right dimension. that's all they would do if you sent it in - file the cocking piece to the right dimension
 
I told them about my measured .030" of cock on close, and they are sending me a a new cocking piece undersized by that amount. New cocking piece plus shipping was $33. Order was placed thursday and I'm supposed to receive the new cocking piece tomorrow. I can follow up with my results after I get the new one in.
 
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Anyone ever check the tolerances of a specific model of trigger? We know the Bighorn's tolerances are very tight. Is it safe to say that if I needed a cocking piece undersized by .030 on my Origin/TL3 with a TT Diamond that if I got another Origin/TL3 with another Diamond trigger it would need the same size cocking piece?
 
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Anyone ever check the tolerances of a specific model of trigger? We know the Bighorn's tolerances are very tight. Is it safe to say that if I needed a cocking piece undersized by .030 on my Origin with a TT Diamond that if I got another Origin with another Diamond trigger it would need the same size cocking piece?

My guess is that stacking tolerances start to come into play so it would be safer to wait and see how the parts fit before ordering new cocking pieces. Likely not to blame on tolerances for one particular party, just lots and lots of pieces that need to line up and can each vary a little on their own.
 
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Any follow-up to this? How did the new cocking piece work? I've got an Origin and SR3 I think could benefit from this.
 
The new piece they sent me did the trick. Got rid of my cock on close almost entirely and was easy to install. When I went back together with my bolt I did accidentally leave firing pin protrusion a little short but that’s easy to adjust as well.

Well worth the $ to get the custom cocking piece from them.
 
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My experience:

We finished up a BH Origin last evening. It too required an abnormal amount of effort to close into battery. First thing I did was remove the fire control assembly to explore if the barrel had been installed with too tight of breech clearance. That was not the case. The bolt flopped into battery under its own weight with the FC removed.

Next, looked over the machine work. No inclusions visible that would indicate a machine finishing flaw. Now compress the striker spring. It moved freely with predictable resistance derived from compression of the spring. Reinstall the FC and pay attention to the effort required to rotate it into the "installed" position. (the 180* turn you have to make once you get the lug engaged down in the bore) Again, it moved easily compared to the effort required to close the bolt when inside the receiver.

Hmmmm.....

So, tore it back down. I applied some copper "chap stick" copper antiseize to the single lug in the shroud that keys into the bolt. Reassemble. It gets a little better. Work the dog piss out of it and it continues to improve. Pull it apart one more time and put a couple drops (literally) of Remington oil on the striker assembly. Put it all back together and it got a bit better.

Contact client, advise, then go home with the intention of working it more today. One of the staff beat me to it. He dry cycled the action prolly close to 100 times. Then I walk over and start fingering it and the problem goes away entirely.

Neither of us laid a hand on the cocking piece or modified a single part. We didn't even tear it down beyond a normal field strip.


Years ago while working at Nesika:

All Nesika actions were designed as a "cock on open only". Meaning that you do not compress the striker spring any further by closing the bolt (like it does on an M700). IF you were not paying attention during a final assembly and you allowed the bolt the "climb the ramps" you could be certain that the action would destroy itself within 200 rounds of use. This was a design flaw in the product due to material selection. Just wasn't hard/tough enough and this condition results in the lugs of the bolt/receiver destroying one another.

Very frustrating...

Bighorns don't have this problem, but it goes to the point. If you watch the cocking indicator on the shroud as you close the bolt and you witness it moving forward ever so slightly, then you have a CoO only type event and its fine. There's literally nothing to fix here because its doing exactly what its designed to do. If it falls an abnormal amount, there's a problem, but so long as you see it nudge forward a teeny bit, you don't have light strikes on primers, and you don't feel a distinct "tick" when closing the bolt, your fine. Go shoot the piss out of it.

The inverse:

If you see the indicator expose more of itself as you do this, then there's an issue. First, double check. It will expose more indicator as you close the bolt and you'll feel a "tick" as you close. That tick is the lugs on the bolt climbing off the receiver's clearance ramps as they transition up onto the lug abutments. It's pulling (screwing, like a nut/bolt) the bolt forward but the pin cannot move with it because the trigger prevents it. This is a "partial cock on close" scenario. -Same as an M700.

Changing the cocking piece location, distance, angle, whatever, only has the effect of altering this timing. In our case it would have made zero difference as the action was displaying a completely different behavior. It had abnormal friction while rotating. There was no "tick" or CoC indication.

A scenario I offer as an alternate consideration:

I would just put out there that if you go through the trouble of running the action, discovering something wierd, tearing it apart, reading stuff like this online, ordering parts, mailing stuff or doing it at home, and then it suddenly stops. It might not actually be from you replacing/chewing on parts.

It could very well be that whatever was being lethargic in our receiver was doing the same thing in yours and because you tore it down/assembled a half dozen times, you got it to work itself out. The parts you modified could very well end up as a placebo of sorts.

My only point is anymore with big companies like BH, ARC, etc, I'm reluctant to go chewing on the parts as they have a pretty darn good handle on what they are doing.

Hope this helps.

C.
 
To follow up on the comment above, I took some measurements on two recent BigHorn actions, one Origin and one SR3. I took three measurements of the pin protusion: 1.) Full Open 2.) Closed to "Hitch" 3.) Fully Closed.

SR3 - Very Smooth, Effort is light and as I feel it should be
1.) 0.058"
2.) 0.035"
3.) 0.043"
COC = 0.008"

Origin - Very Notchy & Heavy, Excessive Effort required to close
1.) 0.098"
2.) 0.0795"
3.) 0.132"
COC = 0.052"

The Origin will definitely be going to Bighorn for a massage.
 
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I do have the lugs lubed but haven’t actually disassembled the bolt to lubricate anything internally.

Maybe I’ll have a local smith look at it, not sure I wanna risk screwing up my new trigger by trying it myself.

I'd suggest NOT taking it to a local 'smith. The advice above about sending it back to Bighorn and spending $50.00 is very good advice.
 
To follow up on the comment above, I took some measurements on two recent BigHorn actions, one Origin and one SR3. I took three measurements of the pin protusion: 1.) Full Open 2.) Closed to "Hitch" 3.) Fully Closed.

SR3 - Very Smooth, Effort is light and as I feel it should be
1.) 0.058"
2.) 0.035"
3.) 0.043"
COC = 0.008"

Origin - Very Notchy & Heavy, Excessive Effort required to close
1.) 0.098"
2.) 0.0795"
3.) 0.132"
COC = 0.052"

The Origin will definitely be going to Bighorn for a massage.

I had almost identical numbers.
0.093
0.0758
0.123

What did you find out?
 
I have the same issue with my trigger tech diamond. I'm not a big fan of these triggers like most are. I hope you never have to send one back to canada either. Good luck with customs if so.
I fixed my problem by going with a Huber. Most underrated trigger on the market.
 
I talked to Bighorn and there is a bolt update also. After my match next weekend my action is going back to get their update bolt and the trigger timed
 
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My TL3 has a heavy close. The problem is in the cocking piece lug. I timed the sear and there is zero cock on close. I degreased the assembly and lubricated it with gun oil and it felt like it was going to seize. I regreased with marine grease and the resistance was reduced dramatically. There are wear marks opposite the locking lug on the striker assembly. The rifle functions fine for what it's worth.
 
They said if you have a hitch in the closing action send it back and they’re fix it with the updated bolt. All I know
 
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I hope you never have to send one back to canada either. Good luck with customs if so.

I actually just sent back a TT trigger today. They had me ship it to a place in Alabama. The customer service person I emailed is located in Canada but they must have a place in the US now.
 
I am at an impasse. I really want a BnA tacsport but the correct top sear for the TL3 is back ordered and will take a while to come in. Should I buy the BnA with the normal sear and send my trigger and action to bighorn? Or buy a TT diamond and run the risk I'll need to send it in too?
 
I am at an impasse. I really want a BnA tacsport but the correct top sear for the TL3 is back ordered and will take a while to come in. Should I buy the BnA with the normal sear and send my trigger and action to bighorn? Or buy a TT diamond and run the risk I'll need to send it in too?

If you’re willing to install a separate cocking piece on your own for the TT you don’t necessarily have to send the action back to Bighorn. If you get them good measurements of your cock on close you should get good results with a new cocking piece they can send you. Not to say they wouldn’t do an even better job if you sent your action in.
 
I am at an impasse. I really want a BnA tacsport but the correct top sear for the TL3 is back ordered and will take a while to come in. Should I buy the BnA with the normal sear and send my trigger and action to bighorn? Or buy a TT diamond and run the risk I'll need to send it in too?
Personally, I would hold out for the BnA. It is well worth it over the trigger tech line up.