Bighorn TL3 / XLR Shouldered and Prefit Switch barrel testing/review

[padom]

I have a Shilen 26" Stainless Select Match Savage Prefit in 223 Wylde on the way as well as a Bartlein shouldered barrel also 26" to test with my Bighorn TL3/XLR setup. I am going to be comparing accuracy, velocity and SD's at 100yds and then at 300 and 500 with Hornady 75 ELD-M. Loads will be developed with both Varget and 8208XBR.

With the TL3's swappable bolt heads and tight tolerances you can make a nice switch barrel with either a prefit/nut setup or a shouldered barrel. You do not need to send your action back to the smith each time once they have taken initial measurements when spinning up your first barrel.

A lot of members have been asking if a prefit compares to a shouldered cut rifle barrel spun up by a smith accuracy wise for half the cost. I am going to test that and post the results.

 

[jackinfl]

I don't have an answer for you, but I do have a question. Why not go with a shouldered barrel and just torque it on?

 

[padom]

Because I want to test the accuracy of a cheaper prefit vs the cost of a shouldered barrel. I already have Bartlein shouldered barrels on my TL3, I want to test a prefit to see how the cheaper cost stacks up to the shouldered barrels accuracy wise.

Shillen Prefit - $339
Criterion Prefit - $300

Shouldered barrel - $650-$750 (Cost of a Bartlein blank shipped to my door is $360 plus smiths charge of between $325 - $425 to fit, chamber and thread muzzle)

 

[jackinfl]

Got it. Makes perfect sense. Please share your experience.

 

[lte82]

What brass are you using and what is your loaded neck diameter? Do you want to turn necks? Will you ever shoot something like an 80 vld or 90 gr? What's the freebore diameter and length on the 223 match chamber?

 

[padom]

I will be using LC and Lapua. No I do not want to turn necks. I wouldn't know loaded neck diameter as I don't have the bullets or the gun or Lapua brass yet...

probably won't shoot an 80vld or 90gr bullet. Just what I mentioned in the OP. The info given on the chambers are taken directly from NSW site, I have no other info

 

[lte82]

Loaded diameter with Lapua is around .248-.249. A 252 neck would probably be ok. I would pass on the .246. The only thing we don't know is the freebore dimensions which I think is key. I would personally pick the wylde chamber for what you want to do since those are proven.

 

[Steel head]

Wylde chambers are easy to load for, forgiving and are friendly with 69-75/77 bullets.

 

[supercorndogs]

Wylde is what I went with. I was about .02 off at 2.5 with the 75 A max. Extra powder space and barrel length got me a high node velocity 3000fps. It is a 28" criterion blank, but it was spun up by Apache Gun Works.

 

[padom]

Nice. That's what I'm looking for. 75 ELDM around 3000 and magazine length without seating deep in the case. What mags are you running?

 

[arm017]

Hey thanks for documenting this Padmon. This is such a common question I'm sure many shooters have- especially with the popularity of 6 mm cartridges and shorter barrel life.

223 wylde seems like a solid choice based upon reputation alone. Especially in this given situation.


So the NSS savage barrels are threaded for the TL3 action, but they are not shouldered/ head spaced for the TL3? Meaning you have to use the barrel nut/ go- no go gauges to properly install?

Also do their prices include threading the muzzle? I had strayed away from this route previously because I was accounting for all of the extra tools, extra 75 $ to thread the muzzle figuring we were about back at similar costs as the traditional route.

 

[padom]

Yea Im going 223 Wylde and just ordered 2 boxes of Lapua brass. Its on sale at OTM for $53.99!

Yes, if you want the muzzle threaded your paying an additional $75 but your still at $400 vs $700-$750.... I bought the Bighorn action wrench ($80), Viper Barrel vise ($58), NSS Barrel nut ($28) and NSS barrel nut wrench ($18) and I already own 223 rem Forster Go/No-Go and Field gauges. So yes you have an up front expense of $184 but after that initial investment you can buy as many prefits as your heart desires or shouldered barrels and install and remove them with these tools. Its a one and done. I see Greg at Bugholes is offering Savage prefit Bartleins for $500 which is a heck of a deal. A little more money than a Criterion or Shillen but way cheaper than a shouldered Bartlein, Kreiger, Hawk Hill, etc...

 

[Eagle1899]

Wylde would be my choice. Just as Steel Head said... its a very forgiving and accurate chamber.

Interesting subject. I've often wondered about jam nut vs shoulder pre-fits.

Please keep us updated on what you find.

 

[padom]

Parts are on the way. Just have to call NSS on Monday and put the order in for the Shillen. My shouldered Bartlein 6.5x47L on my TL3 is hammering right now. Will be interesting to see how it does being removed then reinstalled when I want to shoot x47L. A lot of testing about to take place. lol

 

[lead ƒarmer]

This is literally exactly what I am planning to do soon! Following with much interest.

 

[Geno C.]

I'm going to say in theory, a prefit will shoot just as good as a shouldered barrel or equal quality. I don't think the gun cares whether a shoulder holds he barrel square or a nut. Like any barrel company, there are good ones and not so good ones. Hard to make a 100% equal comparison in this case. I would think the only way to make the comparison closer would be to take a shouldered barrel and get a load them thread it like a prefit and get a load. Then compare.

 

[BoilerUP]

Any particular reason you choose Shilen instead of Criterion?

 

[padom]

No resson, just because my other Shilen barrels straight shoot so I went with them.

 

[FatBoy]

I think you'll be very happy with the Wylde chamber. I have about a half dozen ARs with Wyldes in 1:7 twist and they shoot 55gr flat bases up to 80gr HPBTs extremely well and brass holds up well.

 

[spaniel]

I would go with the Wylde, and I would have no qualms about a prefit barrel. I have many and they are every bit as accurate as shouldered ones.

 

[supercorndogs]

Nice. That's what I'm looking for. 75 ELDM around 3000 and magazine length without seating deep in the case. What mags are you running?

Some of the old AI polymers. I think I had about 2.55 total without modifying them.

 

[supercorndogs]

No resson, just because my other Shillen barrels straight shoot so I went with them.

Shillen makes remage prefits? I checked their sight, did you just call them?

 

[padom]

TL3 takes Savage small shank prefits. NSS has them

http://northlandshooterssupply.com/match-grade-barrels/shilen-savage/

 

[supercorndogs]

TL3 takes Savage small shank prefits. NSS has them

http://northlandshooterssupply.com/match-grade-barrels/shilen-savage/

Oops, got ya. I guess that should have been a no brainer, considering you already mentioned the TL3 action. I saw Criterion and thought Remage.

 

[padom]

Well I spoke to NSS today. They had two 26" Shillen Stainless Select Match prefits in stock in 223 Wylde. They had a Varmint contour 1:8 twist and a Bull in 1:7 twist, both with 11 degree target crowns. I went with the 26" Bull 1:7 along with their squared and trued barrel nut and wrench. I will just have my local smith thread the muzzle for my suppressor mount. All together with the barrel, nut and wrench it was $408 shipped. All my future barrels will only be $339.00 plus shipping since I will already have the nut, wrench and barrel vice. My next barrel will be something in 6mm.

For those following this thread, NSS said to apply anti seize to the barrel threads before installing the nut and screwing the barrel into the action and to torque the barrel nut to 45-50 ft lbs. Also, for those with Bighorn TL3's, they said it was extremely important to remove the ejector or you can cause serious damage. They said they were aware of a few instances where the person did not remove the ejector for headspacing.

They said the barrel would ship out today so I should have it shortly. Stay tuned.

 

[arm017]

What would be causing the damage to the mechical ejector on the TL3? I guess if you use the NSS action wrench? Maybe you wouldn't have to remove the mechanical ejector if you used the TL3 action wrench?

Regardless- great bit of information to know. As I think we are all flirting with this idea too. Thanks padom.


I am excited to see how she shoots

 

[padom]

Improper headspace was implied if you leave the ejector in. I was always taught to remove this when headspacing a barrel.

 

[nexusfire]

Wylde chambers are easy to load for, forgiving and are friendly with 69-75/77 bullets.

My 223 wylde chamber is about .070 shorter than my 223 chamber in my surgeon. Shooting 50gr vmax. I don't think I could do 75gr bullets in the wylde chamber.

 

[2c1fr]

Very nice op can't wait to see your results!

 

[Carl_Ross]

Removing the ejector? I'm not sure why you'd need to, I haven't on the three TL3's I've installed barrel nut style barrels on. If there is an important reason to do so I'd love to know it.

There is an issue with the extractor, namely trying to "snap" the extractor claw over a steel gauge. I didn't get the memo and gouged the extractor doing exactly that on the first one I installed. They replaced it, and now I slip the gauge rim under the extractor from the bottom when headspacing.

Also, my NSS barrels shoot great and arrive quickly. Excellent value and minimum levels of patience required if you are looking for something reasonably popular.

 

[padom]

This is what NSS told me. They may have meant extractor.. This is my first prefit barrel install.

 

[JMcBurn]

OP:

My buddy has a 24" savage stainless prefit from Mcgowen that shoots in the .2-.4 MOA with the 75 bthp at the ranges where I shoot paper (1-200 yards) and it costs like $325. It is a 1-7 Twist Wylde chamber.

Little load data for you
2.522" OAL to lands with the 75gr ELD-M. 1.982" length to ogive at the lands.

I was mag restricted to ~2.400"

24gr of 8208 was as far as I went up to, but it netted 2920 fps. But that load was in between nodes. I am gonna go higher next loading. I am thinking it is gonna end up being in a little under 3000 where the node is.

Very early into lead development as I like to shoot the cheap 75 bthp bullets (<$0.14 a piece when you buy in bulk and the 75 bthp shoots in ARs also)

 

[JMcBurn]

This is what NSS told me. They may have meant extractor.. This is my first prefit barrel install.

That is a problem on non CRF manual eject actions like a normal savage. The ejector/extractor presses on the head space gage and can affect the true head space.

 

[padom]

That is a problem on non CRF manual eject actions like a normal savage. The ejector/extractor presses on the head space gage and can affect the true head space.

Well I can tell you they told me specifically the TL3, and advised me to read the directions that came with it. Said they had numerous people not read the directions that came with the TL3 and had major issues. I told them my smith didnt give me directions with the TL3, I picked up the barreled action. Thats when they said to remove the ejector or extractor when headspacing..

 

[hunter223]

I am about to order a 26" Shilen 223 Savage small shank prefit barrel in Varmint contour from NSW along with their barrel nut for my TL3. Received my TL3 223 bolt head from Bighorn yesterday and their action wrench is on the way.

I plan to run the 75 ELD-M bullet mostly but will also shoot 77 TMK and the 73 ELD-M's and 75 BTHP's as well. What chamber do you guys recommend?

Here are my options


223 Rem.

223 Rem. (.246″)

223 Rem. (.252″)

223 Match (AR-15)

223 Rem Wylde

Just built myself a 223 bolt gun that has a wylde chamber and it shoots 1/4 with factory stuff

 

[padom]

So I talked to Aaron over at Bighorn today. He said yes and no on what NSS said about headspacing. As mentioned above, do not insert a headspace gauge and close the bolt, it will cause damage. You need to put the headspace gauge under the extractor and guide it into the chamber.

 

[krumfola]

I am about to order a 26" Shilen 223 Savage small shank prefit barrel in Varmint contour from NSW along with their barrel nut for my TL3. Received my TL3 223 bolt head from Bighorn yesterday and their action wrench is on the way.

I plan to run the 75 ELD-M bullet mostly but will also shoot 77 TMK and the 73 ELD-M's and 75 BTHP's as well. What chamber do you guys recommend?

Here are my options


223 Rem.

223 Rem. (.246″)

223 Rem. (.252″)

223 Match (AR-15)

223 Rem Wylde

I've found a few threads over on accurateshooter about this topic. Based on the results that others have shared, and the fact that I'm not a pro, for my purposes the savings of a pre-fit are worth it to me.

 

[demolitionman]

Thanks padom. Good stuff here. I simply remove the firing pin and extractor when headpacing with go gauges. Not sure how bad this will look on me but then i mic a piece of tape to check its 3 thousandths and use it for the no go.

and fwiw ive got a .243 criterion that honestly barely shoots moa. No matter what handload of what combo. Tried them all. I deal with it.

 

[padom]

Have Dan over at Inline Fabrication making me a new top mounting plate for my barrel vise. Gotta love the Inline Fabrication Ultramounts!! Hopefully my Shillen shoots a lot better than that...Lapua brass arrived today, barrel, nut and wrench will be here tomorrow. Bighorn rear action wrench wont be here till early next week..

 

[demolitionman]

Hehehe your all sorts of excited! Im sure it'll be a hammer!!

 

[padom]

My 26" Shillen Stainless Select Match barrel, barrel nut and wrench arrived from NSS yesterday. Looks good. I will do initial testing with the 11 target crown but will eventually have it threaded so I can attach my suppressor. Just waiting on my Bighorn rear entry action wrench which shipped but wont be here till Wednesday. Gonna load up some test rounds so I have them ready to go when the wrench gets here Tuesday.

Big thank you to the guys over at XLR Industries who are sending me a Evolution chassis for the testing. I will be picking up another savage prefit barrel (not sure if it will be another Shillen or a Bartlein this time) so I can do a complete TL3/ XLR / Prefit switch barrel rig. I will be testing swapping barrels back and forth (probably some 6mm cartridge) to test accuracy.

 

[Steel head]

My 223 wylde chamber is about .070 shorter than my 223 chamber in my surgeon. Shooting 50gr vmax. I don't think I could do 75gr bullets in the wylde chamber.

I shoot 75/77 all day in mine.
Im thinking something is up with yours because my results are definitely the norm.

 

[padom]

Just checked distance to the lands with a bunch of different bullets I have on the shelf. Only thing I dont have yet is the 75 ELD-M. Happy with the numbers, all of theses will fit in an MDT mag at the lands..

52 ELD-M: 2.276"
73 ELD-M: 2.376"
75 ELD-M: ???
68 BTHP: 2.331"
75 BTHP: 2.325"
55 VMAX: 2.283"
60 VMAX: 2.283"

52 SMK: 2.268"
69 SMK: 2.338"
77 SMK: 2.274"
69 TMK: 2.398"
77 TMK: 2.405"

70 RDF: 2.390"
77 CC: 2.350"

 

[padom]

Want to give a big thank you to Josh at Patriot Valley Arms for letting me stop by and use his shop today. He's a busy man so it was much appreciated! Now I dont have to wait till next week for my action wrench to arrive to install and test this barrel. He also threaded the muzzle for me while I was there! Its all ready to go.


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[arm017]

Awesome!! I spend more time looking at your back porch than my own padom!

 

[arm017]

What coating is that on your TL3? cerakote? DLC?

 

[padom]

Lol. Yea it's DLC

 

[SRPowah]

I was really interested in this idea myself, so I can't wait to see the results.

 

[cjgemm]

Use some thread lock on your barrel nut when you set it up and voila - you have a shouldered barrel making consistency easier.

 

[JMcBurn]

Just checked distance to the lands with a bunch of different bullets I have on the shelf. Only thing I dont have yet is the 75 ELD-M. Happy with the numbers, all of theses will fit in an MDT mag at the lands..

52 ELD-M: 2.276"
73 ELD-M: 2.376"
75 ELD-M: ???
68 BTHP: 2.331"
75 BTHP: 2.325"
55 VMAX: 2.283"
60 VMAX: 2.283"

52 SMK: 2.268"
69 SMK: 2.338"
77 SMK: 2.274"
69 TMK: 2.398"
77 TMK: 2.405"

70 RDF: 2.390"
77 CC: 2.350"

Padom,

Based off your numbers the 75 eld should be around 2.485" oal when I am comparing your oal numbers verus mine.

Good luck cant wait to hear see how this thing shoots.