Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

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Augustus

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Hmm, wonder what happened to the GS 414 he tested with this chambering.
 

TiroFijo

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Wow! I see they advertise the 416 VM as "well suited for extreme
long range shooting or for African Dangerous Game"...

For sure some people have more money than brain and hunting ethics...
 

wadcutter

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow! I see they advertise the 416 VM as "well suited for extreme
long range shooting or for African Dangerous Game"...

For sure some people have more money than brain and hunting ethics... </div></div>
I donno, a nice custom double rifle chambered in .416 VM would make a handy rifle for African game.
 

Donald

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Augustus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm, wonder what happened to the GS 414 he tested with this chambering. </div></div>

A very good question what happened to the 414gr GSC???
 

shoot1760

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

I can't speak for Dave, but he and I have both played with the GS 414 and I've also shot the new GS 425HV. They both stabalize in an 8 twist. Dave called me yesterday and told me he is having great luck with the Cutting Edge 350 & the 370, he was getting awesome velocities in both his 10 twist and his 10.5 twist for the new 375VM.
Last year I put my 8 twist down and started playing with both the Cutting edge 350 and 370 in my 10 twist snipe tac. After all my testing, Im leaning towards a smaller bullet like the 350. In fact, if Dave gets similar results next week in his testing, Im sending him my 8 twist and he's going to change my snipe tac to one of the first Viersco Mags.
Again, I can't speak for Dave, but I think he's still planning on using the GS414 in the VM. But I think the smaller bullets in the 10 twist pencil out as good or better than the larger 400's depending on what your needs are.

cheers
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works


Shoot1760,

My understanding is that Dave's 414 testing has not been very extensive. To date he has not gone beyond 1,500 yards.

Have you taken it further?
 

shoot1760

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

No, but based on my tests, there's nothing to suggest that the GS414 won't go beyond a mile. I did not switch because it was unstable, I switched because I feel the 350 and the 370 bullets will be more mainstream along with a ten twist.

cheers
 
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Augustus

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Zman, you stated in a prior thread the 425HV made football shaped holes with full house loads from your 8.25 twist, is that correct.
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Zman,

I am a little confused as to how "penciling it out" equals "mainstream". A projectile weight of 400 grains is a very good fit for the Cheytac case... and there is nothing particularly mainstream about that cartridge, irrespective of bullet weight.

If you are going to assume the role of reporter, you owe the reader due diligence. Having "nothing to suggest" something, good or bad, is hardly an accepted test protocol.
 

goober

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow! I see they advertise the 416 VM as "well suited for extreme
long range shooting or for African Dangerous Game"...

For sure some people have more money than brain and hunting ethics... </div></div>Estoy en acuerdo contigo
 

ridge rider

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">......

For sure some people have more money than brain and hunting ethics... </div></div>

I note your comment....tell me.... "is this based on jealousy because you simply cannot afford one of these big boomers".....BTW I can afford one of these and that is why I make my comments. Your response please.......
 

shoot1760

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

You will need to read my thread, I don't recall the speed, but as I neared the top end of my velocity curve, I got foot ball sized holes at 500 yards with the GS425 HVs, so I backed her down a bit and they were stable.
We saw some very similar issues with the 338 cal in the first Gen Bergers. I saw lots of reports about the bullet being unstable, but as long as I kept it under 3,000 fps my berger Gen 1 was a freaking one holer, I was getting 1/4 moa on the berger while others were having issues.
 

shoot1760

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Noel, seriously, I really think you need to get off your keyboard and go get a freaking gun and shoot it. Don't sit here and lecture me about protocol. I build guns, I shoot guns,,Im not a (wanta bee), Im not a thread stealer, Im not a troll, I like to shoot guns and bullets that are cutting edge. If follks want to know more about my statements, they can ask and I will be happy to elaborate on any statements that I make.
After spending thousands on bullets, powder, and barrels from 8.25 twist to 10 twist for the 375 cal, I personally like the 350 and the 370's in the 10 twist. I also like the Rocky Mtn and the Cutting Edge bullets. For me, they do pencil better than the bigger 400's, if folks want me to elaborate, I will. Frankly, I owe you no explanation.
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Shoot1760,

You "need to" limit your comments to what you know.

I just reviewed your other thread, and saw that my assessment of your Cutting Edge problem was correct, ie; it was not a bullet problem, but a rifling problem. I also see that you presently have no barrel that will stabilize a 400 grain projectile at the velocities to which the case is capable of driving it. This is not a choice that you made by virtue of any "penciling", but the only option that remains for you.

Regarding your "test" methods, please lecture me Kelly; explain again how it is that you know either one of the GS bullets which you "tested" are suitable. You do not have to answer,but left as it presently stands, you look somewhat foolish at this point.
 

ELR researcher

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Hi Guys:

The thread is titled, "Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works" and my post does not address what Dave did NOT post on his site, only what he did. Please start another thread if you care to debate other topics.

Thanks.
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

... A cartridge minus ballistic data, now there is a properly contained, but useless, topic.
 

ELR researcher

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Dave is posting updates on his site (reverse chrological order - latest at top) as he works down from a 42" barrel:

So far:

UPDATE: Feb. 7, 2012

Installed new test barrel, Lilja 10" twist 42" long (no muzzle brake) rifle 22.5#
H-BMG 50 powder
375 grain cutting edge bullet
3497 fps
10,181 foot pounds
100yd zero.... add 13.5 moa for 1000yd shot
same powder charge as tested with 33.5" barrel
This barrel is a bit tighter and thus developed a bit more pressure.

-------------------------------------
Test #2
V V 20n29
375gn bullet
Vel. dropped to 3300fps
Powder to slow for this bullet weight
-------------------------------------
I will be shortening the barrel by 2" increments to see where the optimum barrel length falls for
this case design. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">All results will be posted here. [Emphasis added and link - http://www.blackdiamondrifles.com/375_Viersco_Magnum.html]</span></span>


UPDATE: Feb. 5, 2012

33.5" barrel test

375gn Cutting Edge bullet
H-BMG 50 powder
3300 fps
9100 Foot pounds at the muzzle
10 twist barrel 33.5" long
3000 yds super sonic possible
------------------------------------

350gn Predator solid
H-BMG50
3450 fps
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

ELR,

If you want discussion limited only to what Dave said in your link, then provide the link, and ask Frank to lock your thread.

Augustus's original question/obervation was not formed in a vacuum.
 

dynamic research

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Dave is doing a great job with a new cartridge. This is a lengthly and expensive process. I have am glad there are inovative people such as Dave to keep the gun world interesting..
 

ridge rider

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

For sure some people have more money than brain and hunting ethics... </div></div>

I got all 3, don't see anything wrong with that, guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

"... a lengthy and expensive process."...

... Agreed Steve, but not one that is breaking new ground.

If you would like the Predators to perform well at those velocities, PM me. I have some information to pass on that you might find valuable relating to fouling.

Best,
Noel
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Steve, check your messages.
 

Ragnarok

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

Impressive results from the 375VM2 round. This is exactly what im looking for, High powered long range caliber.

Great work. It is fantastic to have guys like David, developing new rounds and testing them. Awsome!!
 

shoot1760

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shoot1760,

You "need to" limit your comments to what you know.

I just reviewed your other thread, and saw that my assessment of your Cutting Edge problem was correct, ie; it was not a bullet problem, but a rifling problem. I also see that you presently have no barrel that will stabilize a 400 grain projectile at the velocities to which the case is capable of driving it. This is not a choice that you made by virtue of any "penciling", but the only option that remains for you.

Regarding your "test" methods, please lecture me Kelly; explain again how it is that you know either one of the GS bullets which you "tested" are suitable. You do not have to answer,but left as it presently stands, you look somewhat foolish at this point. </div></div>

Noel, really,,,dude,,get away from your computer key board and go buy gun and go shoot it. Add some value to these forums! Seriously, most of your posts are comments to folks about your vast (perceived) knowledge of ballistics. I can't really recall any of your posts that tell others about groups you shot, or powder charges or load work ups, etc. Most of your posts are bland statements about ballistics. Or they're simply picking fights with others.
Now, back to your foolish statements. I have a much better understanding of GS bullets than you do. Because I have done something you have not done, Yes Noel, I've shot them.
I know for sometime you have been trying to show them (GS bullets) in a bad light hoping that your bullet will outshine them, but it hasn't happened.
Both myself and Dave Viers have no ties to GS bullets and both of us have shot the GS 414's and yes Im sorry, but they do stabilize. The GS414 is a good bullet for those who want to shoot the bigger bullets in an 8 twist.
If I remember right you told everyone last year that there was no way that the GS414 could be stable. Well Noel, you were wrong!!! If anyone here wishes to validate my statments about the GS414, they can email Dave Viers himself at BalckDiamond and verify this.
In the end Noel, it is <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">YOU</span></span> who looks foolish, cause you're blabbing your mouth again instead of adding value. Don't bother to respond, cause I've ran out of patience with your ignorance!!
 

shoot1760

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shoot1760,

You "need to" limit your comments to what you know.

I just reviewed your other thread, and saw that my assessment of your Cutting Edge problem was correct, ie; it was not a bullet problem, but a rifling problem. I also see that you presently have no barrel that will stabilize a 400 grain projectile at the velocities to which the case is capable of driving it. This is not a choice that you made by virtue of any "penciling", but the only option that remains for you.

Regarding your "test" methods, please lecture me Kelly; explain again how it is that you know either one of the GS bullets which you "tested" are suitable. You do not have to answer,but left as it presently stands, you look somewhat foolish at this point. </div></div>

And one more thing...You said that you've reviewed my thread and your assesment was correct? Are you seriously smoking pot? We shot some inconsistant groups with the cutting edge bullets, we plugged the barrel and determinded that it was slightly over bore (bad barrel). And somehow you're a prophet and you called it? Wow, do you have any winning lotto numbers too???

You say that I don't have a barrel that will stabilize a 400 grain projectile. Holy crap you're out to lunch!! How do you know what I (presently) have or don't have? Oh that's right you're a prophet! For you're info, I do have a barrel that will stabilize a 400 grain projectile and it's not your bullet. It's the GS414 as stated earlier. I also shot the GS425HV, and it stabilized also. The 425 did have some trouble at extreme speeds, but when I backed her down she was fine.
I'm done explaining myself to you. In the future, please don't respond to my posts unless you have some REAL LIFE shooting experience that will add value.

chow
 

Noel Carlson

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

"... but it hasn't happened."...

Kelly, you really need to pay closer attention to *objective* third party testing.

GSC has done a fairly thorough job of showing themselves in "a bad light" entirely without any help from me, and "actually shooting them" has reinforced that "perception".

Bring your 338 out to Gunsite next month loaded with GSC... or even your 375 loaded with the GS 414.
 

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Re: Black Diamond Upd, 375 VM2, Barker Machine Works

I have been busy with so many custom rifles and dies that the 375 VM project got side tracked. We had a major flood last summer that stopped all progress here. I have tested several different barrels and twist configurations. I changed the case dimensions twice since starting the project. I have pretty much settled on this version as it seems to have the output that i was looking for in the first place. The 414 bullet will be tested very soon as i just got a new 8 twist barrel in from Benchmark. I havent posted much on the message boards as i am using my website for most information. The original case design did not have the results i wanted, the powder burn required a extra long barrel. The new design really performs good, even with the light bullets (350 grain).

this is the first time i have logged in since last summer, just too darn busy tring to catch up. I have a lot of interested folks following along the build process. Several arms manufacturers are also looking into the VM for long range aplications.

Dave