Anyone know what powder and charge weight Black Hills uses in their 308 win 168gr match rounds? My rifle likes this load but I want to load it myself. Someone help me figure this out please. Thanks
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
Best thing to do is pull one and weigh it. Look at the powder and go from there! I beleive they are loading 4895.
Terry
Best thing to do is pull one and weigh it. Look at the powder and go from there! I beleive they are loading 4895.
Terry
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
SGT ROSS:
I was Wro#$%. Can't say it! The powder in the 308 168gr BHM that I pulled this morning was for sure not 4895. It looks more like Winchester 748 (Ball type powder) or Data 2230-C. Someone may know for sure what it is but 748 is my best guess. Try it and see how it works for you. The Sierra manual list 748 at 2500fps (41.9gr), 2600fps (43.4gr), and 2700fps (44.8gr Max load).
Below is pict of what I pulled. You compare and make your own call. Other opinions??
Terry
SGT ROSS:
I was Wro#$%. Can't say it! The powder in the 308 168gr BHM that I pulled this morning was for sure not 4895. It looks more like Winchester 748 (Ball type powder) or Data 2230-C. Someone may know for sure what it is but 748 is my best guess. Try it and see how it works for you. The Sierra manual list 748 at 2500fps (41.9gr), 2600fps (43.4gr), and 2700fps (44.8gr Max load).
Below is pict of what I pulled. You compare and make your own call. Other opinions??
Terry
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
Yup, don't look like AA2230 for sure.
Ball C-2 also looks like that, but I think it's *usually* a bit darker than WW-748. Both have the occasional flattened sphere in there.
Saw an article in Handloader in the mid-1980s by some benchrest nut who was running his 748 through two sieves to separate out the small granules and the large granules. Testing showed it did reduce his velocity spreads, but I don't remember if it helped his accuracy any. Shooting .308, IIRC, but might have been 6mmBR.
Yup, don't look like AA2230 for sure.
Ball C-2 also looks like that, but I think it's *usually* a bit darker than WW-748. Both have the occasional flattened sphere in there.
Saw an article in Handloader in the mid-1980s by some benchrest nut who was running his 748 through two sieves to separate out the small granules and the large granules. Testing showed it did reduce his velocity spreads, but I don't remember if it helped his accuracy any. Shooting .308, IIRC, but might have been 6mmBR.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jason280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm, 43.2gr of TAC behind a 168... </div></div>
Since we don't *know* that Black Hills is using canister grade TAC (or whatever it is), please work it up to the appropriate velocity.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jason280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm, 43.2gr of TAC behind a 168... </div></div>
Since we don't *know* that Black Hills is using canister grade TAC (or whatever it is), please work it up to the appropriate velocity.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
IIRC, BH is Hornady pills.
IIRC, BH is Hornady pills.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SGT ROSS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My rifle likes this load but I want to load it myself. Someone help me figure this out please. Thanks </div></div>
Chrono BH that your rifle likes and work up a load that matches, with the bullet seated to the same ogive depth, that's what I do to replicate 168FGMM for my rifle and it seems to work just fine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SGT ROSS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My rifle likes this load but I want to load it myself. Someone help me figure this out please. Thanks </div></div>
Chrono BH that your rifle likes and work up a load that matches, with the bullet seated to the same ogive depth, that's what I do to replicate 168FGMM for my rifle and it seems to work just fine.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IIRC, BH is Hornady pills.</div></div>
The 168 is a Hornady, the 175 is a SMK.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IIRC, BH is Hornady pills.</div></div>
The 168 is a Hornady, the 175 is a SMK.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
Here is a pic of some TAC that I took...
Here is a pic of some TAC that I took...
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
sure looks like TAC to me
sure looks like TAC to me
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
I use 748 at 43.5gr (Hornady 168GR AMAX) and get 2600 behind a 24" barrel. I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX and the reloads and the manufactured ammo track very closely. Not saying that they use 748 but...it is close.
I was supposed to go to the range today and could have given a range report; however, it has been raining
for three days straight so I am stuck at home writing on Snipers Hide. 
I use 748 at 43.5gr (Hornady 168GR AMAX) and get 2600 behind a 24" barrel. I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX and the reloads and the manufactured ammo track very closely. Not saying that they use 748 but...it is close.
I was supposed to go to the range today and could have given a range report; however, it has been raining
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
Sierra Manual list TAC 2500fps (38.8gr), 2600fps (40.4gr), and 2700fps (42.0 max). What I pulled is a full grain higher which would put it in the 2800-2850fps range and exceeds what the Seirra manual list as the max charge! I agree that it does look a little like TAC but based on what I pulled and the numbers I would still bet on W748.
The Black Hills 168's I have chrono'd are no where near 2800fps.
See pict!
Picture of Winchester 748
Side / Side Comparison Photo
Photo scale is a little off, however placing them side by side they appear to be twins to me!
Sierra Manual list TAC 2500fps (38.8gr), 2600fps (40.4gr), and 2700fps (42.0 max). What I pulled is a full grain higher which would put it in the 2800-2850fps range and exceeds what the Seirra manual list as the max charge! I agree that it does look a little like TAC but based on what I pulled and the numbers I would still bet on W748.
The Black Hills 168's I have chrono'd are no where near 2800fps.
See pict!
Picture of Winchester 748
Side / Side Comparison Photo
Photo scale is a little off, however placing them side by side they appear to be twins to me!
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX</div></div>
The Black Hills 168gr bullet is not an AMAX.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX</div></div>
The Black Hills 168gr bullet is not an AMAX.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX</div></div>
The Black Hills 168gr bullet is not an AMAX. </div></div>
May be I am missing the point but the Black Hills 308 Win Match, 168 GR Hornady A-Max that I shoot is what I am talking about. I don't use a lot of 168GR HP's anymore. My 308 rifles love the A-MAX. Not that 168 mtach hollow points were bad either; I am tryiing to use one bullet and the A-MAX won out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX</div></div>
The Black Hills 168gr bullet is not an AMAX. </div></div>
May be I am missing the point but the Black Hills 308 Win Match, 168 GR Hornady A-Max that I shoot is what I am talking about. I don't use a lot of 168GR HP's anymore. My 308 rifles love the A-MAX. Not that 168 mtach hollow points were bad either; I am tryiing to use one bullet and the A-MAX won out.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX</div></div>
The Black Hills 168gr bullet is not an AMAX. </div></div>
May be I am missing the point but the Black Hills 308 Win Match, 168 GR Hornady A-Max that I shoot is what I am talking about. I don't use a lot of 168GR HP's anymore. My 308 rifles love the A-MAX. Not that 168 mtach hollow points were bad either; I am tryiing to use one bullet and the A-MAX won out. </div></div>
JStarz,
Are you shooting BHA match ammo (factory loaded) with AMAX bullets? I was confused too as I didn't know that was available.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX</div></div>
The Black Hills 168gr bullet is not an AMAX. </div></div>
May be I am missing the point but the Black Hills 308 Win Match, 168 GR Hornady A-Max that I shoot is what I am talking about. I don't use a lot of 168GR HP's anymore. My 308 rifles love the A-MAX. Not that 168 mtach hollow points were bad either; I am tryiing to use one bullet and the A-MAX won out. </div></div>
JStarz,
Are you shooting BHA match ammo (factory loaded) with AMAX bullets? I was confused too as I didn't know that was available.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX</div></div>
The Black Hills 168gr bullet is not an AMAX. </div></div>
May be I am missing the point but the Black Hills 308 Win Match, 168 GR Hornady A-Max that I shoot is what I am talking about. I don't use a lot of 168GR HP's anymore. My 308 rifles love the A-MAX. Not that 168 mtach hollow points were bad either; I am tryiing to use one bullet and the A-MAX won out. </div></div>
JStarz,
Are you shooting BHA match ammo (factory loaded) with AMAX bullets? I was confused too as I didn't know that was available. </div></div>
Yes, I am shooting the 168GR A-MAX Black Hils Match. I bought 500 rounds in fall to test it out and then work up a load that matches it. I thought it was the Win 748 powder but was never quite sure but I was getting very similar results with 43.5 grains of 748 with a Hornady 168 A-MAX bullet. Black Hills makes some nice accurate rounds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also shoot a lot of BH 168 AMAX</div></div>
The Black Hills 168gr bullet is not an AMAX. </div></div>
May be I am missing the point but the Black Hills 308 Win Match, 168 GR Hornady A-Max that I shoot is what I am talking about. I don't use a lot of 168GR HP's anymore. My 308 rifles love the A-MAX. Not that 168 mtach hollow points were bad either; I am tryiing to use one bullet and the A-MAX won out. </div></div>
JStarz,
Are you shooting BHA match ammo (factory loaded) with AMAX bullets? I was confused too as I didn't know that was available. </div></div>
Yes, I am shooting the 168GR A-MAX Black Hils Match. I bought 500 rounds in fall to test it out and then work up a load that matches it. I thought it was the Win 748 powder but was never quite sure but I was getting very similar results with 43.5 grains of 748 with a Hornady 168 A-MAX bullet. Black Hills makes some nice accurate rounds.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I am shooting the 168GR A-MAX Black Hils Match.</div></div>
Ahh, you're talking about Black Hills <span style="font-weight: bold">GOLD </span>ammo, not the red box stuff.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I am shooting the 168GR A-MAX Black Hils Match.</div></div>
Ahh, you're talking about Black Hills <span style="font-weight: bold">GOLD </span>ammo, not the red box stuff.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
Thanks, JStarz.
In a quandry right now as I have 450 .308 cases ready for a purpose in their lives with SMKs, Nosler and Hornady (HPBTS and AMAXES) in 168,175 and 178 (AMAX) pills and several suitable powders.
Decisions, decisions...
Thanks, JStarz.
In a quandry right now as I have 450 .308 cases ready for a purpose in their lives with SMKs, Nosler and Hornady (HPBTS and AMAXES) in 168,175 and 178 (AMAX) pills and several suitable powders.
Decisions, decisions...
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, JStarz.
In a quandry right now as I have 450 .308 cases ready for a purpose in their lives with SMKs, Nosler and Hornady (HPBTS and AMAXES) in 168,175 and 178 (AMAX) pills and several suitable powders.
Decisions, decisions...</div></div>
not a bad quandry to be in vice having to have all that stuff minus primers or powder...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, JStarz.
In a quandry right now as I have 450 .308 cases ready for a purpose in their lives with SMKs, Nosler and Hornady (HPBTS and AMAXES) in 168,175 and 178 (AMAX) pills and several suitable powders.
Decisions, decisions...</div></div>
not a bad quandry to be in vice having to have all that stuff minus primers or powder...
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
Boy Scouts of America 1970-1975 (including cub scouts ), thrifty bastid ever since!
Boy Scouts of America 1970-1975 (including cub scouts
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, JStarz.
In a quandry right now as I have 450 .308 cases ready for a purpose in their lives with SMKs, Nosler and Hornady (HPBTS and AMAXES) in 168,175 and 178 (AMAX) pills and several suitable powders.
Decisions, decisions... </div></div>
Easy decision-just load up all you have of the 178Amax's 168 Amax's and SMK's and sent the Nosler 168 BTHP's my way
!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, JStarz.
In a quandry right now as I have 450 .308 cases ready for a purpose in their lives with SMKs, Nosler and Hornady (HPBTS and AMAXES) in 168,175 and 178 (AMAX) pills and several suitable powders.
Decisions, decisions... </div></div>
Easy decision-just load up all you have of the 178Amax's 168 Amax's and SMK's and sent the Nosler 168 BTHP's my way
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
I have loaded up to 45 grains ramshot tac with 168 berger vlds in my remington VTR. In 80 degree weather it gave me 2720 fps and .6" groups and with 43.5 grains it averages about 2615 fps 1/2" groups. I seat them 2.830 OAL in lapua brass with WLR primers.
I have loaded up to 45 grains ramshot tac with 168 berger vlds in my remington VTR. In 80 degree weather it gave me 2720 fps and .6" groups and with 43.5 grains it averages about 2615 fps 1/2" groups. I seat them 2.830 OAL in lapua brass with WLR primers.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
A good friend whom is an avid shooter examined the powder from a Blackhills .308 168 Gr. SMK Red box load and a Federal Gold medal match king 168 Gr. SMK under the electron microscope here at the lab. The powder used by Blackhills for this load is indeed Ramshot TAC by electron microscope comparison. The powder used for the Federal Gold Medal load is IMR 4064 also examined and compared under an electron microscope. Enjoy.
A good friend whom is an avid shooter examined the powder from a Blackhills .308 168 Gr. SMK Red box load and a Federal Gold medal match king 168 Gr. SMK under the electron microscope here at the lab. The powder used by Blackhills for this load is indeed Ramshot TAC by electron microscope comparison. The powder used for the Federal Gold Medal load is IMR 4064 also examined and compared under an electron microscope. Enjoy.
Re: Black Hills 308 match powder and charge weight?
Can't say for certain, but I think its BL-C(2). At least it it looks much more comparable to BL-C(2) than 748. Nosler list that powder as its most accurate powder with 165 BT's so it would make sense it would work well with a 168.
Can't say for certain, but I think its BL-C(2). At least it it looks much more comparable to BL-C(2) than 748. Nosler list that powder as its most accurate powder with 165 BT's so it would make sense it would work well with a 168.
