Sidearms & Scatterguns Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

[MontanaMarine]

I recently picked up one of these holsters so I figured I'd give some initial impressions.

I wanted a simple paddle holster mainly for open-carry for day-to-day use around the home, and in the hills. I like the minimal designs, but also want good retention, but without a thumb break.

This holster seems plenty sturdy for my needs, lightweight, and impervious to conditions. I like leather, but synthetic doesn't make my head hurt. This holster is made of carbon fiber per Blackhawk, but I assume there is polymer holding it all together. It's very stiff.

The holster comes with both beltloop, and paddle mounting options. I went paddle for now. There is adjustability for cant forward or aft making it useful for strongside, or crossdraw wear. I go with strongside.

I have read some comments that the Serpa design is considered by some to be unsafe, in that the release puts your finger on the trigger as the pistol clears the holster. I do not find that to be true. The holster release actually positions your trigger finger straight, and along the frame as the pistol clears the holster.

Drawing, and re-holstering are ergonomic, and intuitive. The pistol locks into the holster with an audible 'click' when reholstered.

Anyway, at first blush I like it. Here are a few pics, with a Glock 17.

Pistol is securely locked in the holster via the locking mechanism that engages the trigger guard. There is a molded groove to let your trigger finger find ther correct position for release and draw.

The release grip is essentially the proper safe grip with trigger finger straight along the frame.

The draw. note trigger finger location in along the frame, not in the trigger guard.

 

[ubet]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Good review.

If I might add on the retention, I have had one for 2months now (for a p220carry). I have carried it A LOT a horseback, never once have I worried about losing my pistol, or holster.

 

[jbell]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

I have had many holsters over the years some cheep over the counter and some custom hand made. I now have had 2 Serpas and I dont think Ill ever buy a different holster from now on. I love them! Not to mention the price is also very nice.

 

[3PER]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

It would behoove you to do more research on these holsters. Just might save you from shooting yourself or having your gun still holstered in your <span style="font-weight: bold">"retention" </span> holster taken right off your belt.

Blackhawk Serpas are not allowed in classes taught by Suarez International.

Personally, I have no dog in the fight, just sayin...

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

fuck Suarez International.... I'll stick w/ MY experience... and I've had a Serpa for something since they came out

 

[KM375]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

These look different than the 1st gen Serpas that I have seen. I believe they have made some improvements to the latest gen


I dont use them, but have in the past tried one. I don't like the release mechanism I have had that fail and the pistol would not release. There is another Thread on M4 carbine that states why a lot of instructors do not like or use them. Put yourself under a little self induced stress and see where that finger that supposedly does not sneak into the trigger mechanism goes.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Serpa failure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOBEJvMZ_f4

Serpa ND caught on camera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE

Another Serpa failure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK1JD_u1yO0

Outline of some problems with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McE1zyDiEMQ

Serpa failure on a call out:
http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=91799

Serpa failure in training:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8774

Serious flaw with Serpa holsters:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33166


Many schools and agencies prohibit Serpa's from use.
When there are other safer, stronger, more reliable holsters on the market, which are just as fast and easy to put on (Safariland 6378 for example)...why anyone would continue to use this critically flawed design is beyond me.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Thanks for the feedback.

Looks like some design problems have been corrected in current version.

At any rate, I'm not an 'operator', or pretending to be one. I think this holster will serve me well.

Like most of us, I have several different type of holsters for different uses. None are perfect for everything.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

My comments from another forum on the second vid JimD linked:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IF your finger in in the trigger guard drawing from a SERPA you're doing it wrong.
IF your safety is off before the muzzle is pointing at the ground at least a few feet ahead of you as its coming up, you're doing it wrong.
IF you are pushing the muzzle towards your centerline as you clear the holster, you are doing it wrong.</div></div>


A guy there made the great analogy that using the SERPA lock is like using toilet paper: if you use even pressure on the pads of your fingers everything works fine, but it you poke hard with the tip of your trigger finger while operating either you can get into shit.....

Personally, I like them, but refuse to argue the point any further.

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

I had a serpa drop leg holster. The first thing I did was disable that finger lock. I was not 100% confident that I could hit that release under stress. The drop leg had the top retention button, and that was very easy to release.

I may just be to old to relearn a new holster design, but I will just stick with Safarilands for drop legs, and whatever pancake holster is comfortable for concealed carry.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Larry Vickers just announced that he's banning them at his classes:http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1043371#post1043371
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI - Serpa holsters are no longer authorized in my classes

I am in Pittsburgh this weekend ( July 9-10) and these classes will be the last with Serpas allowed as the students did not get the word in time to change - I have 3 LE students in the class with them

I am not the first to ban them (Gunsite already has) and I am sure I will not be the last

Please pass the word to anyone planning on attending one of my classes in the future

Be safe

LAV </div></div>

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

I had a SERPA for my G21, I really liked it, I sold the G21 and bought a G35, I wanted a SERPA for it, but BH doesn't make a SERPA for G34/35, and I didnt want the muzzle exposed from a G17/22 model, so I bought a Blade-Tech Thumb Drive for my G35, the BT TD is a better holster all around, and there is absolutely no chance of AD with it, the retention is great, easy release and faster IMHO than a SERPA, which is fast for a holster with retention.

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Interesting read-
I has gifted a Serpa to replace my old thumbbreak one. One thing I have noticed from watching many reserve and full time LE qualify is how fumbling they can be under a bit of stress.

Practise doesnt seem to be a high priority.

I can see a bunch of civilians who's home ranges do not permit practise 'from the draw' being a whole bunch of liabilities waiting to test the value of those release forms of tacticool pistol classes even if they have a good student RO ratio. (anyone know the ratio of the schools banning the serpa?)

I don't own a Glock but did take my non military training with a Glock 17. I now own an XD-45 with a thumb safety so I cant fumble finger the trigger during presentation.

So I dont see this as a Serpa problem but first and foremost a shooter error problem coupled with a less safe pistol problem.

Not opening the Glock can of worms but the design has no other safety than keep your meathook out of the trigger guard.

For 95% of the pistoleros in here there are alot of great schools out there that will permit a serpa holster.

Now a quick wonder about those ND links-

wonder if there are more out there with other holsters?

or is Serpa the only 'flawed' design for Glock users

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Shane, you're gonna dig it.

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Had one for my G17, used it mostly as a range holster but liked the fit, retention and like Shane thought it positioned my trigger finger along the frame just as I would without the Serpa. Sold the G17 and gifted the holster to the purchaser but picked one up for my P226....really crappy fit.

 

[3PER]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">fuck Suarez International.... I'll stick w/ MY experience... and I've had a Serpa for something since they came out </div></div>


You know, I have absolutely no problem with that. There is however a reason these holsters are banned by major training operations. So if you feel the need to use what has been proven to be a fault filled unsafe holster and you end up shooting yourself because of it, that is your choice also. Maybe you should see the thread here in this same forum...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2658770&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....Maybe you should see the thread here in this same forum...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2658770&gonew=1#UNREAD </div></div>

Wow, that's convincing alright. He seems so well 'trained' no wonder he's sharing his 'techniques' on Youtube.

In my opinion, If you believe a Serpa holster will cause you to shoot yourself, your training/habits are very bad.

 

[3PER]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....Maybe you should see the thread here in this same forum...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2658770&gonew=1#UNREAD </div></div>

Wow, that's convincing alright. He seems so well 'trained' no wonder he's sharing his 'techniques' on Youtube.

In my opinion, If you believe a Serpa holster will cause you to shoot yourself, your training/habits are very bad. </div></div>

Every one is entitled to an opinion. Unfortunately yours requires an assumption that is false. <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span> don't believe a Serpa holster will cause me to shoot myself as I don't own one. I merely state the facts in hopes of making others aware whose "training/habits" may not be as perfect as yours.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Stupid gets a lot of folks hurt/killed. If someone is going to place their finger on the trigger, and apply rearward pressure while the muzzle is pointing at them, no holster will prevent that.

The Serpa holster simply does not put your finger on the trigger. If you believe it does, that says more about you than the holster.

 

[3PER]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stupid gets a lot of folks hurt/killed. If someone is going to place their finger on the trigger, and apply rearward pressure while the muzzle is pointing at them, no holster will prevent that.

The Serpa holster simply does not put your finger on the trigger. If you believe it does, that says more about you than the holster. </div></div>


Since you are unable to refute the facts you choose to attack the messenger? That tells me all I need to know about you. Typical tactics of the uneducated or underinformed. MontanaMarine, by all means use your Serpa, I don't give a damn. This thread is about reviews of said holsters and there is a wealth of information that has been made available. In the end it is up to each individual to make their own choice. You have made yours, I have made mine.

 

[ubet]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

3per, why are you so butthurt over serpas? Do you work for safariland or bladetech?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Sounds the same as every anti-SERPA poster on the internet....

As I said above, and fully stand behind:

IF your finger is in the trigger guard drawing from a SERPA you're doing it wrong.
IF your safety is off (or you are applying trigger pressure) before the muzzle is pointing at the ground at least a few feet ahead of you as its coming up, you're doing it wrong.
IF you are pushing the muzzle towards your centerline as you clear the holster, you are doing it wrong.


Suarez, Gunsite and other facilities ban them as a business risk management decision, and they'd be stupid not to since any plaintiff attorney could find tons of anectdotal evidence (including videos like the youtube douchebag shooting himself) that would sway civil suit juries to award any dumbass that shoots themselves in class an assload of money. Doesn't necessarily say shit about the holster, more about our legal system....

 

[gathert]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

You will really like the design. Speed drawings may present a little difficulty before you get used to it, but it will only take a few draws. But you probably wont have to be doing that. Overall its decently cheap and works great. The passive retention works really well, and unless you pull hard enough to break the darn thing, which would require some really serious force like two horses, the pistol wont go anywhere. I like mine and use them for my pistols at the range and concealed carry under my rain jacket or winter coats.

 

[3PER]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds the same as every anti-SERPA poster on the internet....

As I said above, and fully stand behind:

IF your finger is in the trigger guard drawing from a SERPA you're doing it wrong.
IF your safety is off (or you are applying trigger pressure) before the muzzle is pointing at the ground at least a few feet ahead of you as its coming up, you're doing it wrong.
IF you are pushing the muzzle towards your centerline as you clear the holster, you are doing it wrong.


Suarez, Gunsite and other facilities ban them as a business risk management decision, and they'd be stupid not to since any plaintiff attorney could find tons of anectdotal evidence (including videos like the youtube douchebag shooting himself) that would sway civil suit juries to award any dumbass that shoots themselves in class an assload of money. Doesn't necessarily say shit about the holster, more about our legal system....
</div></div>

As I said before I don't give a damn about what people decide to carry, that is their decision. I replied to a thread about the Serpa and gave information I would want to have if making a decision about a product. Ih that makes me a Serpa hater in your eyes, so be it. While in fact responses like yours, MontanaMarines' and others make you look like Serpa suckups because you choose to defend an obviously flawed product.

Oh BTW, all those companies you listed above make you sign a waiver agreeing not to sue before they let you take any of their classes. They ban the Serpa because they feel it is a product that can get you killed by poor design and possible failure. You take their classes to learn how to have the best possible chance of survival should you be LEO, Military, Contract operator or just regular Joe. The Serpa holster doesn't live up to those standards.

I'm out of this one.

 

[fasteddie565]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Meh, I like my Serpas.

I will admit that there are some things that should be considered, such as the dirt and debris clogging the locking mechanism. I believe that BH may have implemented a remedy to this (Other than not rolling in the snow or mud)

Ref these cats that shoot themselves, saying its the holsters fault is like saying that guns kill people. This guy Tex should be disarmed. He violated two basic safety rules of firearms use and then posted it for the world to see. not a very compelling story not to buy a piece of kit. Perhaps he was trained by Suarez?

Speaking of him, yea fuck him and his decisions. I would have Martha Stewart train me first. As far as the reputable schools go, a point to consider is that they may have received a directive from their general liability insurance writer. If their underwriter is drinking the anti-Serpa kool aid, they may just out out an edict stating you will not be covered or your premium will rise if your students use this kit. My point is it may be a liability decision out of their control vs some sort of in depth tactical analysis. Mine has yet to say anything to me, but firearms instruction is not a big part of my business.

Ref the retention drills and the holster breakage, as far as a private citizen goes, your SA sucks if someone gets that close to you and grabs your gun. I am not a cop, but I can see the case being different for them as they are often out-manned and have to get dirty on occasion. Obviously a valid concern.

So I think I will keep my Serpas, Use my SA and hopefully stay out of the snow.

My $.02, its worth what you paid for it.

 

[fasteddie565]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)


Oh BTW, all those companies you listed above make you sign a waiver agreeing not to sue before they let you take any of their classes. They ban the Serpa because they feel it is a product that can get you killed by poor design and possible failure. You take their classes to learn how to have the best possible chance of survival should you be LEO, Military, Contract operator or just regular Joe. The Serpa holster doesn't live up to those standards.

I'm out of this one. [/quote]

I respect your opinion on this, but I don't think you can make the claims above as to why they do it with any degree of certainty, other than your honest opinion.

Oh, and no matter what, you cannot sign your right away to sue someone, no matter what the form says.

 

[Guest]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Another Serpa/Glock user, w/o issue.

Safest way to go threw life,...be smarter than the shit you use, an don't take lead from many of those Hawking shit on TV or the internet for profit.

This includes, Mister, move or I'll sweep you with my muzzle, Vickers. The very first show of his I watched he swipe the Australian bad, coming around a corner. Turned his ass off right then. Bad enough it was done, let alone never edited out. His finger was in fact off the trigger but the fact remains he sweep his partner. Never an excuse for that, no matter the venue, let alone TV role playing.

 

[VKC]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

I use serpa holsters, like them, and switch them out for my different pistols using the same platform. I like how the holster locking mechanism releases because it is intuitive to me and that is where I usually put my finger pointed straight, on the side of the gun and above the trigger guard. After drawing, my finger naturally goes where it should be to maintain safety, out of the trigger guard until I'm on target.

It's all how you train, and actually training extensively with your equipment. It's not about what's cool, but rather what you are familiar with. Pick your preferred platform, stick with it, don't pick numerous different ones and never get proficient with any. Train with the same platform, whatever you choose, and that how you prevent mistakes.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

More people have shot themselves with that holster than any other. There is a reason for that.

I guess Gunsite, Larry Vickers and Kyle Defoor all don't know how to identify problem causing equipment.

Good thing we have people on "teh internets" to talk about how they've never had an issue with it (whatever that means).

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

3PER, you put too much stock in your Youtube heroes. That's OK if it makes you feel good.

Unlike yours, my comments are based on firsthand experience.

I have some thoughts about the training venues that ban the Serpa too. It seems the first gen Serpa had some valid design issues, and recalls and redesign have addressed those. however, no doubt many of those holsters are still out there.

I've looked at a few of the course offerings for beginner defensive handgun classes. The thing that strikes me is that most are one or two days long.

In my experience as a student, and instructor, it takes a lot longer than that to build good muscle memory of proper techniques. We used to go by the standard of approx 2000 repetitions to build muscle memory. We practiced draw and dry fire with close supervision for a week before ever firing live ammo. Probably 500+ draws per day.

In a one or two day class, that kind of muscle memory is just not possible to attain, so some sloppy technique is bound to happen. I can see where bad/incorrect technique (hooked trigger finger) could cause problems with a Serpa, or any other holster, especially with a pistol that has a short trigger stroke.

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">fuck Suarez International.... I'll stick w/ MY experience... and I've had a Serpa for something since they came out </div></div>


You know, I have absolutely no problem with that. There is however a reason these holsters are banned by major training operations. So if you feel the need to use what has been proven to be a fault filled unsafe holster and you end up shooting yourself because of it, that is your choice also. Maybe you should see the thread here in this same forum...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2658770&gonew=1#UNREAD </div></div>

What would you recommend as an alternative ?

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

3per-
I know it sounds like we are distainful of your well meaning warnings. But some of us have had such warnings from age 18 on.

When I enlisted I was handed an individual weapon that is still shit on to this day. We were not any better, we called 'em Mattel Toys. Our grim joke was it wasn't a battle rifle coz when you hit someone with it you now have a parts kit. Yet the battle history of the M16 covers decades. (Don't think I own one today, I got what the other team carried and love it!) point is we TRAINED to use it to it's full advantage and kept our wood handled E-tools for beating folks

Each platoon got a brace of pigs, bless the ass gunner who couldn't keep the ammo belt straight! But we carried em anyway. Learned fire discipline to keep the barrel changes to a minimum and how to quickly reduce a stoppage.

LAW rockets that every so often would take off on opening, we would check the back blast area when ready to fire the 90RCL but before opening a LAW...

I guess what I am saying is some of us learned the hard way long ago NOTHING is without some design weakness, usually more textbook than real world.(OK, the LAW thing was a bit unnerving) We TRAINED to adapt and overcome, not whine and decline.

Take the retention deal-
I tried to rip the serpas off several trainees in the reserve academy. I was not half stepping, I wanted those weapons. I suppose a super ninja world class instructor can do that to some putz civi student who wouldn't think of smashing ninja boy in the face to stop the threat but I can assure you, it ain't easy.

I'd rather try and strip a thumb break pistol while rolling around on the ground with an officer. yeah I drug em down and went round and round, did my soul beaucoup good to get ontop of a cop!

ANY holster can have you finger fucking the trigger if the moron strapped to it is that dense.

You can only make GEAR, fuck that kit talk, fool resistant, not fool proof.

I would have thought super ninja instructors would take the approach of training people to the system they bring.

Hell most rifle schools are willing to teach the horus

did I mention it was crazy hot outside today?

 

[cwhardee13]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Love my serpa. I think the issue is with guys not properly training themselves before use. You buy a gun an shoot it a lot (train yourself) before you carry it or in the military/leo must train with it, I would hope. Its pretty fair to say most buy the serpa or other brands look at it, "its just a holster" an convince themselves they cant fuck it up an continue on with life. Train with what you carry not just your actual firearm. That being said Im 2 deployments deep in Iraq an drawn my M9 more than wanted under stress an have yet to have a negligent discharge. Several times the M9 was out an ready to roll without even thinking about what i was doing. It was natural, part of the design. Know your equipment as you know your firearm. Just sayin.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What would you recommend as an alternative ?</div></div>
Safariland ALS - Model 6377/6378.

 

[ubet]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

jimd, 3per,

I am curious, if joe schmo draws his pistol from a serpa, and during the draw puts his finger in the trigger guard, and the gun goes off, is it bh fault? Or is it joe schmos' fault for finger fucking the trigger? Is it the spoons fault rosie odonell is fat?

We like to blame anything/one other than ourselves. Its always the fault of the rifle, scope, rings, ballistic calc, or the bullets fault. Its never the asshole that is operating it. If you put your finger on the trigger, its gonna fire! SO, when drawing, keep your fucking finger out of the trigger guard until your target is acquired, you think that might help?

I have had 2 ad in my life, one when I was 12, the other two or so weeks ago. You know what they were BOTH MY FAULT, cause my booger hook was on the trigger. Last one, I let the safety off my 700, and like a numb nut had my finger on the trigger, well guess what, it fired (granted I still only missed the steel plate at 600yds by 3 or so inches).

Maybe its not the holsters fault, maybe it is the person drawing the pistols fault? Nope wait cant be, we are perfect and we have to blame a company crazy me!

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jimd, 3per,

I am curious, if joe schmo draws his pistol from a serpa, and during the draw puts his finger in the trigger guard, and the gun goes off, is it bh fault? Or is it joe schmos' fault for finger fucking the trigger? Is it the spoons fault rosie odonell is fat?

We like to blame anything/one other than ourselves. Its always the fault of the rifle, scope, rings, ballistic calc, or the bullets fault. Its never the asshole that is operating it. If you put your finger on the trigger, its gonna fire! SO, when drawing, keep your fucking finger out of the trigger guard until your target is acquired, you think that might help?

I have had 2 ad in my life, one when I was 12, the other two or so weeks ago. You know what they were BOTH MY FAULT, cause my booger hook was on the trigger. Last one, I let the safety off my 700, and like a numb nut had my finger on the trigger, well guess what, it fired (granted I still only missed the steel plate at 600yds by 3 or so inches).

Maybe its not the holsters fault, maybe it is the person drawing the pistols fault? Nope wait cant be, we are perfect and we have to blame a company crazy me!</div></div>

How is designing a holster which requires the user to apply pressure with their trigger finger, TOWARDS the trigger, a "good idea"?

If there was a vehicle out there with an oversized gas pedal, and an undersized brake pedal...would that be just as safe as vehicles with the opposite (every modern vehicle in production)? After all, put your foot on the correct pedal and it's not an issue, right?

How about a table saw with the only off switch being right next to the blade?

There are good ideas, and bad ideas. Pressing in towards the trigger with your trigger finger to get the gun out? Bad idea.

The holster is a cheap piece of junk, prone to breaking during any intense struggle, with an exposed mechanism using lots of tiny weak parts, which requires the person using it (often under duress) to start moving their trigger finger towards the bang switch.

If you can't see the problems with this, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Jim-
have you ever wrecked one wrestling with the owner?

Now the finger going toward the trigger, duress and loss of fine motor skills...

This is why my pistol has a thumb safety. Perhaps the 'cheap' holster isnt to blame as much as a pistol who's only safety is the nimrod keeping his finger out of the trigger.

Onething I have noticed on presentation is the NATURAL tendency of ALL the firing hand fingers curling in to grip the weapon.

Do the high speed ninjas teach some sort of two finger draw while the other two are limply hanging there?

The PROPER release position for a serpa is a straight finger, not a CURVED one. TRAINING is the key here, and that includes the safari.

Training- that little thing that turned a remf into cannon fodder into the mighty ninja warrior we all think we are.

The cheap attack is like the one demanding only the biggest, bulkiest, most expensive scope rings and base be used by everyone who is 'serious' about tacticool.

99% percent of us will be well served by the serpa. Even when some numb nutt attempts to take our holstered weapon away.

IF we get the proper training and execute it with dash, elan, and certain vicious streak that just cant be taught.

Trite comments, like what you ended your post with, are asinine. Everyone knows you dont shit where you eat but the M16 does just that. And so does every woman who has a loving and caring man

You just have to maintain both properly.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...How is designing a holster which requires the user to apply pressure with their trigger finger, TOWARDS the trigger, a "good idea"?</div></div>

2000 words,

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim-
have you ever wrecked one wrestling with the owner? </div></div>

A friend mine runs a disarm class a few times a year. Wrecks them every time.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now the finger going toward the trigger, duress and loss of fine motor skills...

This is why my pistol has a thumb safety. Perhaps the 'cheap' holster isnt to blame as much as a pistol who's only safety is the nimrod keeping his finger out of the trigger.</div></div>
Right, all these striker fired pistols that have been dominating LE using for the past 20 years must be to blame.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Onething I have noticed on presentation is the NATURAL tendency of ALL the firing hand fingers curling in to grip the weapon.

Do the high speed ninjas teach some sort of two finger draw while the other two are limply hanging there?

The PROPER release position for a serpa is a straight finger, not a CURVED one. TRAINING is the key here, and that includes the safari.</div></div>
Any design that forces the user to get that close to the edge is foolish. Other designs leave more room for error and cost nothing more.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Training- that little thing that turned a remf into cannon fodder into the mighty ninja warrior we all think we are.</div></div>
If you've like to compare training resume's with a pistol, let me know.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The cheap attack is like the one demanding only the biggest, bulkiest, most expensive scope rings and base be used by everyone who is 'serious' about tacticool.</div></div>
No it means, if you want a "retention" holster, don't get one that can be destroyed should the feature you bought it for actually get tested.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">99% percent of us will be well served by the serpa. Even when some numb nutt attempts to take our holstered weapon away.</div></div>
99.9% of us won't need a gun in the first place, so yes...most people will "never have a problem".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IF we get the proper training and execute it with dash, elan, and certain vicious streak that just cant be taught.

Trite comments, like what you ended your post with, are asinine. Everyone knows you dont shit where you eat but the M16 does just that. And so does every woman who has a loving and caring man

You just have to maintain both properly.

</div></div>

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...How is designing a holster which requires the user to apply pressure with their trigger finger, TOWARDS the trigger, a "good idea"?</div></div>

2000 words,

</div></div>

ROFL.

This is something like 20 frames per second, so it must be like a <span style="font-style: italic">million words</span> or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84FO-qr2xZI

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Jim-
I asked if YOU have done it.

I have a friend who knows a guy who works with the brother of the guy who... I can tear up an M16 in a heart freakin beat, doesn't mean it isn't an effective weapon- when used properly by someone with training and that chiseled chin determination American Fighting Men are noted for.

Dominating LE? Again you go one world as if no other pistols exist. In the beginning there was great resistance to Glocks, they were roundly dismissed as unsafe due to no 'real' safety. Then a good sales program and everyone was on board, now as other makers wised up other designs are becoming popular. Thumb and grip safeties are back in vogue. Maybe my old bell bottoms will be soon.

BUT again the lack of any safety on a weapon other than keep your finger out the damn hole is obvious, if you dont get that I dont know what to say.

Its odd you see a finger near the trigger as too close to the edge but not so a pistol that lacks any mechanical, positive safety. I see sooooo many other times where a pistol with no grip/thumb safety is an accident waiting the proper goober to come along, not just when you draw the weapon from the holster.

Well Buddy Ruff, start giving some of your pistol bonifides, don't just hint around, you obviously have never tried for yourself most of what you knock the serpa for. Sounds more like you are repeating what your buddy says.

Anyway, the bottomline is training on the proper technique for your gear, knowing how to fight to keep a bad guy off you while you draw your weapon, and how to disable it if you are losing the fight for said weapon. Training, training training.

I'm sure your 'friend' tears up serpas for breakfast and the super ninjas can disarm a serpa owner where safari owners would just snicker...

But for all the nay saying, many combat vet, long service LE types love their serpas and bet their lives on them. Many departments use them. Many comp shooters love them.

Course what they are really betting on is their training and determination, not matter the equipment they use.

But if you want to believe the safari will safe your life when a serpa will let you down go right ahead.

I bet you really believe putting the seat in an upright position will REALLY help in the event of the airliner crashing...

Good luck

 

[Edgewater]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Notquiteright.......excellent post. +1 for everything said. Love the "upright position" comment. Proud owner, and EDUCATED Serpa carrier. Oh, and I also own a Glock.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edgewater</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Notquiteright.......excellent post. +1 for everything said. Love the "upright position" comment. Proud owner, <span style="font-weight: bold">and EDUCATED Serpa carrier.</span> Oh, and I also own a Glock.</div></div>
That's an oxymoron.

 

[M21guy]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

I have two Serpa holsters myself. I have actually little experience with any others, so I'm no expert. I have one issue. The Colt Railgun doesn't always get retained when putting it into the holster without a little wiggle to lock and likes to hang up slightly on the draw. The rest of my pistols work swell. I think for duty I'll be investing in Safariland and giving them a go. They seem better suited. I don't know any department rules on them, but the Serpa doesn't seem like the holster for me.

 

[ubet]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

Jimd,

So its not the persons lack of training, its just the equipments fault? I love that mentality. I have one of those evil guns without a safety, a sig220 carry da/sa, when I draw, my finger is never against the trigger guard, it sits above it, just like in MMs pictures. In fact where the release button is, when I push it in, it pushes against the frame. So I dont know how someone can be getting an AD/ND from it. Unless they have their bugger hook in the tg when it comes out and they are covering themself with it and GASP that is not the holsters fault, that is the "operators" fault, maybe gasp again, he got bad instruction from somebody! THE HORROR!

 

[Edgewater]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

guess I will not be taking any training at


http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/

oh well

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edgewater</div><div class="ubbcode-body">guess I will not be taking any training at


http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/

oh well</div></div>

Me either, it's a forum, not a school.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jimd,

So its not the persons lack of training, its just the equipments fault? I love that mentality.</div></div>

Watch the clip, then tell me how he intentionally placed his finger on the trigger. Look at how fast it happens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE

As for the "lack of training" thing...why is it that Gunsite, Vickers, Defoor, Suarez, Tactical Response, and numerous LE training academies and departments have BANNED these holsters?

If anyone understanding the importance of training...I would think it might be the guys who make a living training people, full time.

I'm done leading horses to water on this one. Apparently there are too many people who are married to their Serpa, and take anything negative said about the design, personally.

If you're not reasonable enough to objectively look at the design, do the research, and see the short-comings...you're not going to learn anything from something I post here, either.

 

[ubet]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jimd,

So its not the persons lack of training, its just the equipments fault? I love that mentality.</div></div>

Watch the clip, then tell me how he intentionally placed his finger on the trigger. Look at how fast it happens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE



If anyone understanding the importance of training...I would think it might be the guys who make a living <span style="text-decoration: line-through">training people</span>, <span style="font-style: italic">defending this country in foreign hostile lands, where if their equipment fails, or their training fails, they die</span> full time.

</div></div>

Just thought I would help you out. I think I would take the opinions of people who are getting shot at for a living a little more valid than anyone else. Seems to be working for them...

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster (review)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blackhawk Serpas are not allowed in classes taught by Suarez International.</div></div>

Suarez says AR's are junk too, his opionion means nothing to me, but I wont go there.

I have two Serpas CQCs, one for a revolver, one for my Beretta I use in competition. I like them.

I watched the video, that was shooter error anyway you look at it. One of the 4 rules of gun safety is not to put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot. He admits his finger "falling in the trigger guard" as he was drawing.

Unless he had some wierd holster, I can't see it. With my CQC, your trigger finger falls on the release. As you pull the gun out, the trigger finger falls along side the slide, it doesn't fall into the trigger guard.

I don't know about schools banning the CQC holsters, but I do know just about ever match or range I've went to, if your finger is on the trigger before its suppose to be, you're ask to leave.

I've watched the video a couple times, then went out and played with my CQC's. I saw nothing that would force my finger to go to the trigger before its suppose to.

SALSA