I mentioned to my mom the other day that I was about to order a Shield .45 since the prices are so good right now with the rebates going. Apparently she has been wanting to get a handgun and take the concealed carry course for awhile so she offered to order my .45 for me if I teach her how to shoot. She is going to order herself a pistol also and it's either the Bodyguard .380 or Shield 9mm. She is 63 years old and what I would consider to be of average strength for a female her age. Either gun should have no problem fitting into her purse or nightstand so that's a non issue. Since she has very limited experience (she shot a couple rounds of 38 spl like 20 years ago) recoil is a large concern of hers. Of these two pistols, using cheap ball ammo, which would likely have the lightest felt recoil? I'm kinda torn because while I think the Shield is probably the better gun, for an extremely novice shooter such as her I like the long heavy trigger pull of the bodyguard. If it fires it'll be intentional.
Sidearms & Scatterguns Bodyguard .380 or Shield 9mm for older lady?
- Thread starter AK4900PA
- Start date
.380 loads that even approach acceptable defense minimum requirements will have more recoil in a small .380 than a single stack 9. 9mm will be cheaper, more availible, and reliabily put down a threat. You also dont need +p or +p+ level loads in 9mm. 124 or 147 gr HST/golddot is all you will ever need. Little blowback .380s are also sprung heavy as shit to be reliable resulting in a harder to charge pistol. .380 is for deeep concelment where nothing else will work....carrying less than 9mm is a false sense of security.
I hate the snappy felt recoil of the body guard 380. The sheild 9 is a joy to shoot as is the Glock 42 380.
My mom went thru the same dilemma a year or so ago and is about the same age. She had a hard time racking the slide on most guns. She ended up picking the sig 938. It was the easiest for her to rack. Maybe take her to a few shops and have her get a feel for each one.
She has to be comfortable with the caliber and gun.
My mom went thru the same dilemma a year or so ago and is about the same age. She had a hard time racking the slide on most guns. She ended up picking the sig 938. It was the easiest for her to rack. Maybe take her to a few shops and have her get a feel for each one.
She has to be comfortable with the caliber and gun.
My wife always has an issue pulling the slide back on a semi and that always concerns me not to mention if she had to do a quick action drill. If you are getting it for someone that is not going to shoot much I think a wheel gun is a better option. That eliminates lots of things that go wrong. My wife has a 38SPL and has no issue with the recoil.
I 100% agree. To someone to is generally unfamiliar with firearms, I believe a wheel gun is the best option. They're just not nearly as complicated as an auto, especially in a high stress environment.
My folks recently when through the same situation. My dad (who is close to 70) wanted to get something for my mom (who is in her late 60's). Well, without asking for my input they decided on a Bodyguard 380. As previously stated, its sprung pretty heavily and she has a difficult time racking the slide with two hands. And guess what...neither one of them carries with one in the chamber, so what good is that going to do you if you can't charge the weapon???
If recoil is a concern get a steel frame J-Frame style revolver in 38spl. You can get them with concealed or shrouded hammers if snags are a possibility.
However, if you/she are dead set on an auto, the shield 9mm is far easier to manipulate (and shoot) than the BG 380. And the BG 380's trigger is garbage.
My mom ended up ordering a 9mm Shield for herself. Including shipping and transfer fee it came out to $257 after rebate. Kinda hard to pass up at that price. Worst case scenario, I'll buy it off her and we can go look at other options. Only issue I really foresee is difficulty racking the slide. We'll find out when it gets here.
If she finds the Shield too snappy, try a Glock 42 (380). I tried my wife with a 38Spl revolver…couldn't hit anything and the long, heavy trigger pull was a real problem for her. Then a Sig 938, she liked the fit but before long the snappy 9mm recoil got to her. Now she has a Glock 42 and within a couple weeks I was ordering dies, brass and bullets because she was burning up too much cash on factory ammo...
The Glock 42 is a joy to shoot. I had one of the original BG 380's and it's probably one of the worst guns S&W has ever made. Horrible DAO trigger and very snappy recoil. Also, the screw that keeps the battery in the laser will eventually back out and cause the gun to jam so bad that a smith will have to break it loose. Not sure how they did the laser on the newer one but the first one was a big piece of shit.
The slides on those pocket rockets are hard for some to work.
A 38 with soft grips that cover the backstrap (lazer grips work well) a trigger job and some downloaded type ammo.
I forgot to mention hammerless
As in snub nose 642 airwait
A 38 with soft grips that cover the backstrap (lazer grips work well) a trigger job and some downloaded type ammo.
I forgot to mention hammerless
As in snub nose 642 airwait
^^^^, wink
You guys may get a good laugh at this, but I own an indoor shooting range and I have sold so many CZ 83's to women than anything. They are all metal but not too heavy, have a really nice trigger pull, especially single action, very good ergonomics that help mitigate the 380 recoil and they hold 12 + 1. You can go ahead and laugh but until you try one, don't knock it.
(1) Can she shoot the weapon properly/effectively under square range conditions?
(2) Is it small enough to carry/hide easily?
(3) Is the bullet going to preform an defeat/stop the threat if it connects?
If she and the weapon can meet or exceed all the above, when/if push comes to shove she will tell her side to the jury. The coroner only holds one ways with the vic.
I would suggest using bullets from Lehigh Defense*
I have used them in 380acp, 38spl, & 357mag on many things 4 legged to-date, none have survived the encounter or needed a follow up shot. Chambering an gun mean nothing if none of the 3 are met. Why carry a large/heavy weapon or put up with heavy recoil when a very small one with the correct bullet will do the same job?
https://www.lehighdefense.com/
Some of the Lehigh bullets are Barrier blind an work good on glass as well. While not cheap for square range shooting, they are very cheap for their intended purpose.
All that said, situational awareness an thinking quickly will allow you to exit the area over having to fight. A good gun fight is over before the other party knows it has even began.
Your best gunfight (no matter who you are or think you are), is the one you never attend.
I picked up a shield 9mm the other day and really like how it shot. I have a few pocket .380s but will definitely be using the shield a lot more. For smaller frame hands it should fit pretty well and would be fine for defense. Though if she can practice with the longer trigger pull I would look into a revolver as opposed to either of these.
I would definitely go try if you can, the bodyguard might be a bit snappy but only shot it a few times a long time ago. The big thing is if she has no need for smaller it would make more sense to go with something slightly larger like a M&p double or g19 or p320 compact or subcompact as the spring weight is usually slightly easier to rack and easier to aim. Or consider a slightly heavier revolver so there is no racking the slide...something like a 357 LCr downloaded with 38 or smith k/l frame. Outside the box a walther ccp is fairly easy to rack and shoot but a bit of a pain to takedown.
Or an often overlooked one would be a p239 smaller but heavy enough for relatively low recoil and initial double action pull...there are decent trade ins available at reasonable prices usually.
The real answer is a revolver in either .38 or 9mm. (Taurus actually makes a revolver in .380 as well)
A model 642 is really hard to beat. Practice with the standard .38 loads and carry the +P loads.
Folks get too wrapped around the axle in regards to penetration for a self-defense gun.
Personal Self Defense is a completely different scenario than offensive use of a handgun.
Chad Oulson's killer can testify that the .380 is a sufficient caliber to take someone's life a close range.
A model 642 is really hard to beat. Practice with the standard .38 loads and carry the +P loads.
Folks get too wrapped around the axle in regards to penetration for a self-defense gun.
Personal Self Defense is a completely different scenario than offensive use of a handgun.
Chad Oulson's killer can testify that the .380 is a sufficient caliber to take someone's life a close range.
5 shots is not enough for a carry piece. 1949 called, they want their old tech back.
An older study, but shows that 2 rounds is the average number of rounds fired in a defensive situation. 5 rounds is plenty.
http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/analysis-of-five-years-of-armed-encounters-with-data-tables/
Worthless study does not take into account reality. This is why police all carry j frames and .380's right? No one ever has to worry about more than one assialint or a crew burglurizing a residence/car jacking. 5 shots is enough to shoot your way out of fergeson or some other hate filled riot where being white means you get beaten/killed. Little granny, the midern day annie oakley who cant even rack a slide and has zero firearms/pistol training is only going to need 2 shots? Shitheels tend to work together no different then predatory pack animals. Im sure reginald denny would have liked to have a glock 17 on his hip that day.
That's a pretty stupid statement as I clearly stated typical defensive use of a firearm.
What the fuck does ferguson have to do with this?
Do you think the OP's mother is going to go and hang out in an area where race riots are happening?
If Annie Oakley can't rack a slide, all the more reason to have a revolver.
Average means just that. No one expects to have to use a gun to defend yourseld, but it still happens. Ferguson is just an example of normal people caught in the middle of something out of their control. I dont understand why this is difficult for you to understand.
Guess she doesnt need a gun then right?
In all honesty probably not. The point was she doesn't doesn't need a double stack magazine with two spare mags on her hip to get her to the MP5 in the trunk. She's made it 63 years without ever needing a gun to defend herself so I don't see her getting into a situation where 6+1 of 9mm is insufficient.
The primary concern was finding something light and compact enough to actually get carried, light enough recoil to not be too intimidating and at a reasonable price point. I feel like the 9mm shield should work well. I'll find out when I take her to the range next week.
Interesting to note the responses, to the op's question. Of those responding how many have been in a civi, self defense gun fight an if so how many rds each time, if more than one fight? (Military an LE don't count.)
So no one that was giving the OP advice in this thread has ever been in a civi gunfight?
Sadly I've been in 2, and only had to expend 4 rds total. One rd in a 1 on 1 & 3 rds in a 4 on one.
Real world is most often different than perception.
As an instructor who is on a range six days a week I would tell you this.
Defending yourself with a gun is NOT ABOUT THE GUN. It's about the massive amount of formal defensive shooting instruction and continuing instruction and practice that you will need to become a knowledgable and strong enough shooter to actually be able to defend yourself under even the most basic of defense scenarios. Your mother is 63 years old. You and I both know that she will never even come close to completing the necessary training and continuing practice. You have to realize that an untrained shooter is 500 times more likely to hit a innocent bystander or themselves in an actual encounter than they ever will be in stopping the bad guy. An untrained shooter is far far more dangerous to everyone they come in contact with in their everyday life then they ever will be with the bad guy. You have to understand that an LEO that goes thru their police academy, that has additional training after that, and that has to go thru a qualification process at least 2 times a year will miss their target while shooting under stress between 85% and 90% of the time. So what chance do you think your mother and the 99% of people that carry that have absolutely no formal defensive shooting training have in stopping the bad guy ????? Zero point zero chance of even getting their hand on the gun let alone out of the holster.
Something to think about.
Defending yourself with a gun is NOT ABOUT THE GUN. It's about the massive amount of formal defensive shooting instruction and continuing instruction and practice that you will need to become a knowledgable and strong enough shooter to actually be able to defend yourself under even the most basic of defense scenarios. Your mother is 63 years old. You and I both know that she will never even come close to completing the necessary training and continuing practice. You have to realize that an untrained shooter is 500 times more likely to hit a innocent bystander or themselves in an actual encounter than they ever will be in stopping the bad guy. An untrained shooter is far far more dangerous to everyone they come in contact with in their everyday life then they ever will be with the bad guy. You have to understand that an LEO that goes thru their police academy, that has additional training after that, and that has to go thru a qualification process at least 2 times a year will miss their target while shooting under stress between 85% and 90% of the time. So what chance do you think your mother and the 99% of people that carry that have absolutely no formal defensive shooting training have in stopping the bad guy ????? Zero point zero chance of even getting their hand on the gun let alone out of the holster.
Something to think about.
Never has been never will be, but most never learn that simple fact. The gun is but a tool, the mind is the weapon. Situational awareness, quick thinking plus mussel memory allows you to be cuffed, treated like trash until the interrogations are over, while the other person either bleeds out, cut on in a hospital, or gets outlined by chalk.
And yet untrained people successfully defend their homes from armed intruders almost every day. Your most common self defense situations are rarely gun fights. Were they so, then your 0.0% number would likely be correct. More often it's about an armed burglar , be it with knife or other weapon, who also had no formal training.
I agree that nothing replaces formal training, but don't forget what most self defense scenarios really are. They are not gun battles.
I agree that nothing replaces formal training, but don't forget what most self defense scenarios really are. They are not gun battles.
My better half has, as her personal defense firearm, a Smith and Wesson Model 65. Small grips (small hands). Goes bang every time. No buttons, cocking, slides, magazines. Goes bang. She is all fumble-fingers with automatics. But can handle a revolver with confidence.
Some basic training is a must. Doesn't have to be massive courses, but some range time is a must. Familiarization.. Loading, cocking, etc. Lots of dry fire... muscle memory. A DA revolver is NOT easy to fire off for someone unfamiliar. A slide is not easy to rack.... for someone who has never tried it. A few hours of dry fire is invaluable. We started with dry fire. Then my K22 (the same as a Model 65) for a couple hundred rounds. Then light .38 (2.8 grains bullseye and SWC) and then a few +P's. Crawl, walk, run. Well, maybe not run. Maybe 'saunter.' But in an afternoon, she could hit minute of torso every time.
If it's not a carry piece, BTW, but is for in-home, don't disregard a simple shotgun. Short 12 or 20 ga. Pump is good. But nothing wrong with a nice simple single-shot or double 'coach gun'. A Harrington and Richardson 20 ga is about as simple to use as it gets. Cut back to 18.5"... and loaded with #2's .... well... effective is probably an understatement.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Some basic training is a must. Doesn't have to be massive courses, but some range time is a must. Familiarization.. Loading, cocking, etc. Lots of dry fire... muscle memory. A DA revolver is NOT easy to fire off for someone unfamiliar. A slide is not easy to rack.... for someone who has never tried it. A few hours of dry fire is invaluable. We started with dry fire. Then my K22 (the same as a Model 65) for a couple hundred rounds. Then light .38 (2.8 grains bullseye and SWC) and then a few +P's. Crawl, walk, run. Well, maybe not run. Maybe 'saunter.' But in an afternoon, she could hit minute of torso every time.
If it's not a carry piece, BTW, but is for in-home, don't disregard a simple shotgun. Short 12 or 20 ga. Pump is good. But nothing wrong with a nice simple single-shot or double 'coach gun'. A Harrington and Richardson 20 ga is about as simple to use as it gets. Cut back to 18.5"... and loaded with #2's .... well... effective is probably an understatement.
Cheers,
Sirhr
I have trained ny fair share of shooters.
One thing i have learned is that some women prefer being trained by women.
They feel less intimidation and open up to instructions.
I am pretty good training women, but if you notice any pushback cut your losses and stop before they shutdown.
A good women's group is divawow.org
Those women are bad ass.
My wife shoots with them and earned her distinguished expert rating from the NRA. In pistol.
One thing i have learned is that some women prefer being trained by women.
They feel less intimidation and open up to instructions.
I am pretty good training women, but if you notice any pushback cut your losses and stop before they shutdown.
A good women's group is divawow.org
Those women are bad ass.
My wife shoots with them and earned her distinguished expert rating from the NRA. In pistol.
As previously stated the Shield 9mm would get my vote. Especially when considering the price difference between that and a Glock 43.
For reference, my wife cannot rack the slide on my Shield, but can on my VP9. I'm looking to get her a wheel gun for the house.
......this man is smart. I know its not the "popular advice" to a crowd like us, but......
My mom retired at age 65 and began traveling a lot in the camper. She asked me to help her buy a pistol for protection as well. She had never really fired a weapon at all ever. I have and carry everything from a little key-tec 32 all the up through full size block and let her handle each to see what she might feel fit her hands. After watching here even try and hold a pistol.....I recommended a shot gun......then asked her a couple of quick questions and took the shot gun away from her and bought her about 6 giant things of bear mace.....one on her hip, one under seat, one next to bed.....ect......
I believe she is a million times safer that way than with any irearm---not because of the firearm but because of the user
Last edited:
While it's very different from what you are thinking of, I would strongly suggest getting the Ruger LCR in .357 magnum with the soft standard Hogue grip. Then loading it with the Hornady 38 Special 90 gr Critical Defense Lite rounds.
She will be able to hold the gun much easier as she ages, feel a lot more confident & not have to worry about chambering rounds or cycling it in case of a malfunction.
In addition, the recoil will be a lot less and it will be way easier for her to shoot & it will easily get the job done.
Small .380 pistols are rotten for recoil & small 9mm ones are not much better. Usually they also have rather stiff springs.
Well chosen revolvers still make for excellent self defense weapons that stand the test of time.
She will be able to hold the gun much easier as she ages, feel a lot more confident & not have to worry about chambering rounds or cycling it in case of a malfunction.
In addition, the recoil will be a lot less and it will be way easier for her to shoot & it will easily get the job done.
Small .380 pistols are rotten for recoil & small 9mm ones are not much better. Usually they also have rather stiff springs.
Well chosen revolvers still make for excellent self defense weapons that stand the test of time.
My standard women-and-gun advice: Don't make the choice for her. I bought her a 38 a revolver, then a small 9mm, before finally getting to a 380 she was comfortable shooting and liked enough to PRACTICE REGULARLY.
Many women can't handle the double action trigger pull of a revolver well, especially a small one.
Many women don't like the recoil of a 9mm small enough to fit their hands.
If their life may depend on it, take the time to treat the situation appropriately. Get different guns in their hands and listen to their preferences.
Many women can't handle the double action trigger pull of a revolver well, especially a small one.
Many women don't like the recoil of a 9mm small enough to fit their hands.
If their life may depend on it, take the time to treat the situation appropriately. Get different guns in their hands and listen to their preferences.
Shield 9 mm is a good one for her to try. The ported shield has been popular but the muzzle flash would be greater. Depends if that would bother her. Low flash powders work well in these guns.
Similar threads
