Bolt Action Valkyrie

[Hiker12]

Looking to do another bolt action build using the .224 valkyrie. Most guys are running this cartridge on a AR15 platform. Any input on performance using this cartridge on a bolt action platform would be great. Performance on cartridge, powder , bullet and length of barrel. Also anyone experience problems with the case , or primer pockets. Thanks

 

[Dai Bando]

In my opinion, a bolt gun Valk doesn't make much sense due to the bolt face and the fact OAL isn't an issue.

I think Bighorn has bolt faces available now, but I'd still be thinking .223AI or 22 br.

 

[Jeffd]

If you go this route - Go with Buck at C&H. I have his bolt gun and it flat out shoots!

 

[Bradu]

Go with a 223 AI and you will be happy you did.

 

[trob_205]

In my opinion, a bolt gun Valk doesn't make much sense due to the bolt face and the fact OAL isn't an issue.

I think Bighorn has bolt faces available now, but I'd still be thinking .223AI or 22 br.

I agree with this to an extent. If exclusively handloding then yea 223AI would be my pick but to be able to pick decent ammo off the shelf and go shoot has its benefits too imo for heavies anyway

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

It seems to me that they should have gone with the 308 as a base cartridge to get a little more powder in so that the 90/95 gr bullets would a bit more velocity and give 6/6.5CM a run for the money, on paper at least. The 6.8SPC parent case seems like it falls just short of making the round awesome. It probably doesn't matter in the real world.

My thought was that you build a really light PRS rig based on the 224V. Frankly, that might be a way to get some new innovation is by bringing in a light weight class. Chassis, scopes and barrels would follow.

Would seating a 95 grain past the AR mag length limit give the round some benefit on powder and having less jump to the standard chamber lands? I forgot how the whole chamber discussion/spec ended.

But if you are handloading to get what you want, that takes away the primary advantage of the round- off the shelf and local inventory ammo.

 

[Hiker12]

Thanks for the input . Will do some research on 223AI. Have always shot 30cal and 6.5mm. Want something on the lighter side for a change.

 

[Bradu]

I'm at 2858 fps with an 80 grain amax out of a 16.5" barrel with the AI to give you an idea what its capable of.

 

[Hiker12]

It seems to me that they should have gone with the 308 as a base cartridge to get a little more powder in so that the 90/95 gr bullets would a bit more velocity and give 6/6.5CM a run for the money, on paper at least. The 6.8SPC parent case seems like it falls just short of making the round awesome. It probably doesn't matter in the real world.

My thought was that you build a really light PRS rig based on the 224V. Frankly, that might be a way to get some new innovation is by bringing in a light weight class. Chassis, scopes and barrels would follow.

Would seating a 95 grain past the AR mag length limit give the round some benefit on powder and having less jump to the standard chamber lands? I forgot how the whole chamber discussion/spec ended.

But if you are handloading to get what you want, that takes away the primary advantage of the round- off the shelf and local inventory ammo.

I am hearing this round is having performance issues depending on length of barrel and different weight bullets. It is not getting the velocity they claim. Also hearing primer pocket problems. Maybe they should have gone with the 308 case.
I hand load for all my bolt guns. In my opinion it is the only way you can achieve max performance . I shoot 260 so you haved to reload. Factory ammo if you can get it is not as good.

 

[Hiker12]

I'm at 2858 fps with an 80 grain amax out of a 16.5" barrel with the AI to give you an idea what its capable of.

That's good velocity with a 16.5" barrel. With a longer barrel could push it a bit higher. Thanks for the reply

 

[lash]

The Valkyrie is not a terrible choice for a light bolt gun. Advantages are getting away with a 20-22" 1:6.5 twist barrel, loading the heavies like 95g bullets longer than can be done in the small frame AR and thus gaining more powder room, getting a chamber cut the way that you want it and make a fun rifle that will still hang in out to 1200 or so. Sure, the design isn't what some might think it could be, but the concept was to get heavier higher BC projectiles out of a small frame AR platform than currently possible.

I climbed on the wagon by putting together a .224V AR with a 22" barrel and so far am liking the results very much. Longer distance shots out at 800-1000 yards are very consistent, recoil is negligible, are easier to see than with .223 and the higher BC offerings out there in the 75-95g range are performing well as you might expect. The one negative with the .224 in an AR is the restriction of the OAL available in that platform. A bolt removes that negative.

Just another opinion.

I am hearing this round is having performance issues depending on length of barrel and different weight bullets. It is not getting the velocity they claim. Also hearing primer pocket problems. Maybe they should have gone with the 308 case.
I hand load for all my bolt guns. In my opinion it is the only way you can achieve max performance . I shoot 260 so you haved to reload. Factory ammo if you can get it is not as good.

I am having no issues with primer pockets, high pressures nor even attaining the performance expected. As I've posted elsewhere, I'm getting 2750-ish in my 22" barreled AR platform rifle with factory Hornady 88s and pretty consistent sub MOA out to 800 so far. As has been mentioned by some others that have reason to know better, many of the negative reports are the growing pains of a new cartridge and some manufacturer' products not having been vetted well enough before release. Also, the Federal Fusion 90s are shooting well in my rifle.

I expect that a nice bolt being fed properly built hand loads will do fine in exceeding those results by a good margin.

 

[JayB]

I just shot factory hornady eld match 88 and federal 90 today in a brand new MPA 224ba. The hornady is about 0.5 moa at 100 yard, 3 different 5 shot groups. The federal shot weird. 3 rounds at 0.2” group then the next two expanded group to 1.5”. I don’t like to call them flyers — every shot counts, just like in a match. MV on the hornady was a little over 2700, federal 90 had a wide range from 2680 - 2780. The MV on the federal had no direct correlation with the POI.

 

[Jeffd]

I just shot factory hornady eld match 88 and federal 90 today in a brand new MPA 224ba. The hornady is about 0.5 moa at 100 yard, 3 different 5 shot groups. The federal shot weird. 3 rounds at 0.2” group then the next two expanded group to 1.5”. I don’t like to call them flyers — every shot counts, just like in a match. MV on the hornady was a little over 2700, federal 90 had a wide range from 2680 - 2780. The MV on the federal had no direct correlation with the POI.

I got rid of all my Federal and switched to Hornady. My groups are all under .5 MOA now! Federal still has a huge issue!

 

[JayB]

I got rid of all my Federal and switched to Hornady. My groups are all under .5 MOA now! Federal still has a huge issue!

I am thinking the same.

 

[-=boone=-]

Yup

 

[JayB]

With many complete AR, barrel and increasing number of complete bolt gun on the market in this caliber and 2 major ammo manufacturers making factory loads for it, plus brand new rifle shooting half MOA with factory ammo, this round still looks promising to me.

 

[Hiker12]

.224V doesn't make huge sense for a bolt action unless you also share the components (brass, powder, projectiles) with an AR. Others already mentioned if you're going with bolt gun that doesn't have to use AR mags you have better options. If you wanted to run it in a Ruger American using AR mags or a Lantac straight pull, then maybe I guess. It's like running a .300BO in an AK or rebarreling your .300 Blackout Remington to .308 just to shoot 187gr subsonics.

For got to mention in original post that the state I live in. We are unable to purchase a AR platform Mass is getting really bad . But interrested in this new round with low recoil and will punch out to a 1000 yards. I do appreciate the input.

 

[Hiker12]

The Valkyrie is not a terrible choice for a light bolt gun. Advantages are getting away with a 20-22" 1:6.5 twist barrel, loading the heavies like 95g bullets longer than can be done in the small frame AR and thus gaining more powder room, getting a chamber cut the way that you want it and make a fun rifle that will still hang in out to 1200 or so. Sure, the design isn't what some might think it could be, but the concept was to get heavier higher BC projectiles out of a small frame AR platform than currently possible.

I climbed on the wagon by putting together a .224V AR with a 22" barrel and so far am liking the results very much. Longer distance shots out at 800-1000 yards are very consistent, recoil is negligible, are easier to see than with .223 and the higher BC offerings out there in the 75-95g range are performing well as you might expect. The one negative with the .224 in an AR is the restriction of the OAL available in that platform. A bolt removes that negative.

Just another opinion.



I am having no issues with primer pockets, high pressures nor even attaining the performance expected. As I've posted elsewhere, I'm getting 2750-ish in my 22" barreled AR platform rifle with factory Hornady 88s and pretty consistent sub MOA out to 800 so far. As has been mentioned by some others that have reason to know better, many of the negative reports are the growing pains of a new cartridge and some manufacturer' products not having been vetted well enough before release. Also, the Federal Fusion 90s are shooting well in my rifle.

I expect that a nice bolt being fed properly built hand loads will do fine in exceeding those results by a good margin.

Hey lash thanks for the post. That's the info I am looking for very helpful.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

But interrested in this new round with low recoil and will punch out to a 1000 yards.

It'll get there but don't expect much "punch" on arrival, no matter what the advertisements say.

 

[lash]

It'll get there but don't expect much "punch" on arrival, no matter what the advertisements say.

How much punch is needed? 375 ft.lbs. (at 1000 yards) is enough to move steel and leave a visible impact mark. It is enough to take out a small varmint.

I don't know of any claims that this is a lethal round at those distances. It will mark steel though. Don't knock it 'till you try it.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

How much punch is needed? 375 ft.lbs. (at 1000 yards) is enough to move steel and leave a visible impact mark. It is enough to take out a small varmint.

I don't know of any claims that this is a lethal round at those distances. It will mark steel though. Don't knock it 'till you try it.

Thats up to the OP and his intended uses. Just don't fall for all the hype making apples to apples comparisons to 6.5CM.
I like lobbing .224 bullets way out there as much or more than the next guy, but punch isn't the right word to use, especially when you need to spot misses.

 

[lash]

Are there people making apples to apples comparisons to 6.5? That obviously does not make sense. Now, if someone told me that the ballistic trajectory was very similar to a 6.5, I'd buy that all day long. The Hornady 88g ELDMs out of my 22" barrel have almost exactly the ballistic drop up to 1000 yards as my .260 from a 26" barreled bolt. This is both as calculated and as borne out by actually shooting these distances so far.

The .260 has about 1-1/2 times the energy of the .224V.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yes, plenty of Federal literature during the initial release made direct comparisons between the two, but never regarding energy.
Plenty of people took it as gospel and then exaggerated/spread the hype.

 

[lash]

Ahh, clever marketing there. Let people infer what they will from what is unsaid.

Though, I have to say that anyone who knows little enough to assume that a 90g class bullet will have the same energy as a 140g class bullet because they share a very similar ballistic trajectory will also believe that the .260/6.5 has the same energy as a 300 WM because they also share a very similar trajectory curve.

 

[Bradu]

Yes, plenty of Federal literature during the initial release made direct comparisons between the two, but never regarding energy.
Plenty of people took it as gospel and then exaggerated/spread the hype.

Yeah, I had to explain this to several people. As you said, people ran with the hype and became obsessed with it before any real world results were out. Marketing at its finest!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yup, and there's alot of those people out there.

 

[JayB]

FWIW, the hornady 88 gr ELD match factory load is shooting half moa out of the MPA 224V. I can reach out to 1100 yard as reliably as 6.5 CM to ring steel. I am happy with my 224v bolt gun.

 

[craigos]

In my opinion, a bolt gun Valk doesn't make much sense due to the bolt face and the fact OAL isn't an issue.

I think Bighorn has bolt faces available now, but I'd still be thinking .223AI or 22 br.

Am getting my Valkyrie faced action from ARC (Nucleus) next week .... am looking for a barrel (1:6.5) as we speak ....

 

[Ledzep]

If a guy throated a Valkyrie to seat bullets at the neck-shoulder junction or slightly above, the dodgey consistency issues with heavy bullets would likely diminish considerably.

I still think for a bolt gun, the PPC, Grendel, 222AI, or BR cases are a better approach.

 

[Dai Bando]

Am getting my Valkyrie faced action from ARC (Nucleus) next week .... am looking for a barrel (1:6.5) as we speak ....

Cool. I hope it shoots great for you.

I have a 1-7" 22br coming from Shilen sometime in the next century.

Waiting on a 7" Bart 2b and an Origin that Bugholes is gonna chamber .223AI.

 

[Gooldylocks]

If a guy throated a Valkyrie to seat bullets at the neck-shoulder junction or slightly above, the dodgey consistency issues with heavy bullets would likely diminish considerably.

I still think for a bolt gun, the PPC, Grendel, 222AI, or BR cases are a better approach.

Howa mini-action with 22 Grendel barrel..? Maximum mag length is like 2.300 from what I have read...

 

[Ledzep]

I was thinking more like a standard short action with a 2.8-2.95" magazine where you can do whatever you want and still have a mile of room. I know the Cz527 is something like 2.330-2.350. I forget exactly. Every little bit helps, but in any event, the Grendel has more capacity.

 

[leftyk82]

I'm unsure what I will do with it yet, but my .420" bolt face and extractor for my Nucleus will be shipping from ARC today.

 

[flyer]

It sucks that you can't get an AR but you can get a short action bolt gun with no problem.

You're going to spend a lot of money on uncommon parts just to use a cartridge based around the limitations of the AR which don't apply to you if you just get a short action.

You should ask yourself what exactly you are trying to do.

 

[Hiker12]

Everyone's input is much appreciated. Glad I started this post, sounds like it's not worth the hassle doing a bolt action for this round. Perhaps when I retire in 10 years will move to a Red state (Free State). Thanks again, keep sending the lead down range

 

[223remfmj]

I’m awaiting my 224V ba with a McMillan A5 stock and Defiance action next month. Could anyone share reloading data? I’ve seen the Speer info but I prefer Hornady and Berger bullets. Thanks in advance.

 

[223remfmj]

Correction - I have the Sierra info. See:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/03/28/sierra-bullets-load-data-224-valkyrie/

Would be most obliged to get similar data re Hornady and Berger. Thanks all

 

[sandwarrior]

I love the idea of these lightweight cartridges in a bolt gun. People have been having fun with these, in a bolt gun no less, in 6.8 SPC. So why not see what super high BC bullets can do out of a super lightweight bolt rig? I mean think about having 1k capability in a 4-5 lb. rifle? The same with any of this class of cartridge, based either off the .30 Rem (6.8 SPC) or .220 Russian (Grendel)

I have to say that over the years there always seems to be the "fallback" in mentality to always getting a more powerful round. Why not go with the flow here and stay with efficient bullets? That's whats been getting us out there, where we used to not go. Not so much power of the cartridge.

With the tight twist of the .224V, you can put anywhere from an 80-95gr. bullet out to 1k. Recoil is up a bit for a lightweight rifle, but not as much as many imagine. Going with a .308 based case, ups recoil a bunch. People then mitigate that by adding weight to the rifle. Thus, losing the point of the light rifle. And, FWIW, this case in 6mm as the "Hagar" won a national championship in Camp Perry.

The .224V, would be an excellent choice for a light weight bolt gun. IMO.

 

[steve123]

I love the idea of these lightweight cartridges in a bolt gun. People have been having fun with these, in a bolt gun no less, in 6.8 SPC. So why not see what super high BC bullets can do out of a super lightweight bolt rig? I mean think about having 1k capability in a 4-5 lb. rifle? The same with any of this class of cartridge, based either off the .30 Rem (6.8 SPC) or .220 Russian (Grendel)

I have to say that over the years there always seems to be the "fallback" in mentality to always getting a more powerful round. Why not go with the flow here and stay with efficient bullets? That's whats been getting us out there, where we used to not go. Not so much power of the cartridge.

With the tight twist of the .224V, you can put anywhere from an 80-95gr. bullet out to 1k. Recoil is up a bit for a lightweight rifle, but not as much as many imagine. Going with a .308 based case, ups recoil a bunch. People then mitigate that by adding weight to the rifle. Thus, losing the point of the light rifle. And, FWIW, this case in 6mm as the "Hagar" won a national championship in Camp Perry.

The .224V, would be an excellent choice for a light weight bolt gun. IMO.

In that vein, I was shooting my 223AI yesterday, 88's at 2816 fps, it's the low node.

Granted, the rifle is a benchrest rifle, weighs 18 pounds and the wind was down but man is it sweet to shoot and self spot for.

It's kinda funny that with my other high performance cartridges I hadn't cleaned the small steel yet. At 550Y, 675Y, 812Y, 981Y I got them all, including the CB shot, and didn't miss with 2 other follow up shots on each one. Then went on to the 1122Y 21" steel, once I figured out the wind I hardly missed it.

I'm so enamored I'd like to do a 22PPC in a repeater, I just found out a few days ago that Norma makes factory brass for it!

 

[spife7980]

Correction - I have the Sierra info. See:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/03/28/sierra-bullets-load-data-224-valkyrie/

Would be most obliged to get similar data re Hornady and Berger. Thanks all

Hodgdon has some data http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Hornady only has their 88 data up right now

 

[Hiker12]

I love the idea of these lightweight cartridges in a bolt gun. People have been having fun with these, in a bolt gun no less, in 6.8 SPC. So why not see what super high BC bullets can do out of a super lightweight bolt rig? I mean think about having 1k capability in a 4-5 lb. rifle? The same with any of this class of cartridge, based either off the .30 Rem (6.8 SPC) or .220 Russian (Grendel)

I have to say that over the years there always seems to be the "fallback" in mentality to always getting a more powerful round. Why not go with the flow here and stay with efficient bullets? That's whats been getting us out there, where we used to not go. Not so much power of the cartridge.

With the tight twist of the .224V, you can put anywhere from an 80-95gr. bullet out to 1k. Recoil is up a bit for a lightweight rifle, but not as much as many imagine. Going with a .308 based case, ups recoil a bunch. People then mitigate that by adding weight to the rifle. Thus, losing the point of the light rifle. And, FWIW, this case in 6mm as the "Hagar" won a national championship in Camp Perry.

The .224V, would be an excellent choice for a light weight bolt gun. IMO.

When I started this thread some thought it was silly to build a bolt gun with this round. Nice to see others see the potential of this round in a bolt action. Besides in a bolt gun you should get longer life out of the brass and a bit better accuracy.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm still not following the bolt gun 224V thing. I like going off the beaten path more than most, but thats alot of extra work to get 223 Rem performance out of a bolt gun.

 

[lash]

I'm still not following the bolt gun 224V thing. I like going off the beaten path more than most, but thats alot of extra work to get 223 Rem performance out of a bolt gun.

Can your .223 throw 88-95g projos out to 1100+ yds supersonically?

 

[leftyk82]

Are we any further with magazine options for a 224V bolt gun?

 

[Dai Bando]

Can your .223 throw 88-95g projos out to 1100+ yds supersonically?

More importantly, can it do it with factory ammo?

The Valk doesn't make much sense to a reloader/wildcatter.

 

[lash]

Are we any further with magazine options for a 224V bolt gun?

Well, since I know that some people are using standard 223 mags for semis and doing fine, I wonder why the .223 mags for bolts wouldn't work also. Plus, are there not some people shooting 6.8 and other variants from bolts?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Can your .223 throw 88-95g projos out to 1100+ yds supersonically?

In a bolt gun? Absolutely. @padom just posted somewhere else that I can't find about his 223 pushing 80's past 2900fps. @steve123 also recently posted about a 223 throwing 88's pretty fast too.

Actually, just looked at my data and my 223 gas gun has a load that's going 1100+fps at 1100yds. So again, absolutely.

Edit: just realized steves post is above and he's talking about a 223AI, but those numbers are possible with a standard 223.

Also my gas gun load is with 75's, so it doesn't quite relate to your question since you specified 88-90 grain bullets....

 

[XLR308]

I love the idea of these lightweight cartridges in a bolt gun. People have been having fun with these, in a bolt gun no less, in 6.8 SPC. So why not see what super high BC bullets can do out of a super lightweight bolt rig? I mean think about having 1k capability in a 4-5 lb. rifle? The same with any of this class of cartridge, based either off the .30 Rem (6.8 SPC) or .220 Russian (Grendel)

I have to say that over the years there always seems to be the "fallback" in mentality to always getting a more powerful round. Why not go with the flow here and stay with efficient bullets? That's whats been getting us out there, where we used to not go. Not so much power of the cartridge.

With the tight twist of the .224V, you can put anywhere from an 80-95gr. bullet out to 1k. Recoil is up a bit for a lightweight rifle, but not as much as many imagine. Going with a .308 based case, ups recoil a bunch. People then mitigate that by adding weight to the rifle. Thus, losing the point of the light rifle. And, FWIW, this case in 6mm as the "Hagar" won a national championship in Camp Perry.

The .224V, would be an excellent choice for a light weight bolt gun. IMO.

I really do like the idea of a 224V or something similar based on the 68spc case with a little more capacity but have been waiting to see if or what bolt actions come out in support of it.
I still have 1000 SSA 68spc cases in unopened bags from before Nosler bought them out for wildcat experimentation for a 224 or 6mm variant that would definitely be run longer than what the confines of a an AR mag allow and would definitely outperform the 224V and easily best the 223AI arguments.

Kelblys is offering the 224V in the NYX line of rifles so if I end up building something I would just see about getting a spare bolt for my Atlas and going that route.

 

[lash]

Well, that's the great thing about the shooting sports. Everyone finds something that floats their boat. Most .223 and even .223AI chambers and twist rates aren't really set up to handle much more that 75s or 77s.

Personally, I'm having a blast with my .224v in a small AR platform that is a tack driver out to what used to be long distance. 1000 yards on 6" targets with a 22" barrel in a light and fast AR is just fun in my book.

 

[XLR308]

Well, that's the great thing about the shooting sports. Everyone finds something that floats their boat. Most .223 and even .223AI chambers and twist rates aren't really set up to handle much more that 75s or 77s.

Personally, I'm having a blast with my .224v in a small AR platform that is a tack driver out to what used to be long distance. 1000 yards on 6" targets with a 22" barrel in a light and fast AR is just fun in my book.

I certainly wouldn't argue with those capabilities or results, I've also been keeping an eye on what Lowlight has been doing with his JP 224V it is proving to be a very capable round for its intended platform.