- Thread starter Lone star Shooter
- Start date
Figured I'd share some photos as well.
I have not seen too many talk about Geissele's "nano coating" yet, but the entire carrier has it, as opposed to the DLC offered only on the bolt for JP.
The machine work is definitely nicer on the JP FMOS, but its also double the price.
As it stands, this rifle now has a frankencombo (JP Bolt and Geissele Carrier).
I have not seen too many talk about Geissele's "nano coating" yet, but the entire carrier has it, as opposed to the DLC offered only on the bolt for JP.
The machine work is definitely nicer on the JP FMOS, but its also double the price.
As it stands, this rifle now has a frankencombo (JP Bolt and Geissele Carrier).
I was set up with dealer terms for almost two decades with Young Mfg. When the new ownership took over, they would neither answer my emails or phone calls. After multiple attempts to contact them, I gave up and rolled over to JP as my #1 go-to choice. By that time, JP was DLC coating their bolts, saving me that often frustrating step dealing with Ionbond, so the switch was a double-win for me. JP customer service has been absolutely top shelf for me, and I'm just small potatoes for an outfit that big.
I've purchased several of the current Young Mfg. M16 bolt carrier groups through my big distributor, RSR, and they've proven to be a very good value.
I haven't tried the Y/M bolts with "HM Defense Bolt Technology". It does look very interesting. But, I'm using top shelf bolts already, bolts of a quality that very seldom if ever fail (one known failure in the last ten years - an LMT with 5000 rounds on it about six years ago). So, I am quite happy to continue using what works so well for me, JP DLC coated bolts.
Besides, 50% or so of the customs I do are in a caliber that requires something besides a standard 5.56 bolt. JP has me well covered there, too, with 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel bolts already DLC coated.
I've purchased several of the current Young Mfg. M16 bolt carrier groups through my big distributor, RSR, and they've proven to be a very good value.
I haven't tried the Y/M bolts with "HM Defense Bolt Technology". It does look very interesting. But, I'm using top shelf bolts already, bolts of a quality that very seldom if ever fail (one known failure in the last ten years - an LMT with 5000 rounds on it about six years ago). So, I am quite happy to continue using what works so well for me, JP DLC coated bolts.
Besides, 50% or so of the customs I do are in a caliber that requires something besides a standard 5.56 bolt. JP has me well covered there, too, with 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel bolts already DLC coated.
Evidentially you're either extremely ignorant or run your gas guns 2K Deg. F.
For the uniformed among us : Given that PTFE degrades above 350 ºC (662 ºF) which is well beyond any oil based lubes smoking vaporization point . I wonder how long and # of rounds down bore ,for a BCG to reach 662 Deg. F.
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Not sure where you're getting that the small frame JP carrier & bolt are double the price of the Geiselle, but JP's website lists is as #375 vs Geiselle at $325.
JP FMOS Small Frame BCG
And while all Geiselle's stuff is always good, their "nano" coating is CrN which is a PVD applied coating.
CrN is not as hard as DLC nor does it have as low of a COF as the DLC, so I'll take the DLC every day, all day...................& I deal with both on a commercial basis in the auto industry.
But the Geiselle does use an improved version of C-158 for the bolt; but even though there is a lot of variability of 9310 in the marketplace, I have confidence in JP's QA to control what they are using.
And again, on the bolt, DLC is preferred over CrN.................& the JP bolts are the best I've ever used with regard to being easy to clean & I've never heard of one breaking, much less have one break myself.
As to the carriers, I have DLC carriers & they are very, very slick & smooth in the upper; even the polished, uncoated SS steel LMOS carrier that JP makes is very very slick & hard to tell the difference between it & DLC. And, though uncoated, if well lubed, I surely don't expect it to wear out in any reasonable time frame.
MM
More or less where I've ended up with Young Mfg. as well, though I never had dealer status. Too bad they've changed business practices.
I've used a couple of their version of the HMB bolt design, but they've not been run anywhere near enough to say if they last longer than a standard design. Those are also available direct from HMB Defense as well.
I used quite a few of Y/M's lightweight carriers, but it appears that they've discontinued them now as well.
JP's stuff is all top notch & they charge for it too, but it works & works very well. If I could put their carriers & bolts into everything, I would.
All the RCA stuff is also way better than good as well & have never had an issue with anything from them. I don't think that anyone does nitriding better than RCA.
MM
The Ultimate BCG coating would be BAM aka AlMgB14. Diamond hardness with 1/2 the friction coefficient of Teflon .
These BAM materials are showing exceptionally
promising wear resistance, superior to that of commercially available hard materials, including
polycrystalline diamond!
https://www1.eere.energy.gov/manufacturing/industries_technologies/imf/pdfs/bammaterialsjan05.pdf
What’s almost as hard as diamond, slicker than Teflon and “green” enough to reduce the United States’ industrial energy consumption by trillions of BTUs a year? The answer is BAM – a ceramic alloy created by combining a mix of boron, aluminum and magnesium with titanium diboride. The world’s third hardest material, next to diamond and cubic boron nitride, BAM is as slippery as it is strong. With a 0.02 coefficient of friction, it is substantially slicker than Teflon (0.05) and lubricated steel (0.16).
These BAM materials are showing exceptionally
promising wear resistance, superior to that of commercially available hard materials, including
polycrystalline diamond!
https://www1.eere.energy.gov/manufacturing/industries_technologies/imf/pdfs/bammaterialsjan05.pdf
What’s almost as hard as diamond, slicker than Teflon and “green” enough to reduce the United States’ industrial energy consumption by trillions of BTUs a year? The answer is BAM – a ceramic alloy created by combining a mix of boron, aluminum and magnesium with titanium diboride. The world’s third hardest material, next to diamond and cubic boron nitride, BAM is as slippery as it is strong. With a 0.02 coefficient of friction, it is substantially slicker than Teflon (0.05) and lubricated steel (0.16).
Time to build a 400 LegendI'm the dork who paid full price for an LMT 6.8 BCG mistakenly thinking it would work with a 6ARC
View attachment 8395178
Do you wildcat any? There are some cool receiver sets you can use that take Six8 PMAGs, from New Frontier Armory.I'm the dork who paid full price for an LMT 6.8 BCG mistakenly thinking it would work with a 6ARC
View attachment 8395178
Mag well is a bit larger in length and width.
You missed a pretty critical detail in both my post and the photos.
I was comparing the cost of bolt carriers, not the entire complete BCG with bolt.
A JP Full Mass bolt carrier is in fact double the price of the Geissele Enhanced bolt carrier.
Also, multiple others in this thread have pointed out that JP’s actual carrier is NOT dlc, so that would be a moot point.
I just try to keep it simple, so I just drop in JP FMOS BCGs, just like I only use Bartlein barrels.
Yes, I misunderstood that you were only referring to the carriers..........but the JP is not quite double the cost for the Geiselle, but close enough.
And yes, I know full well that none of the carriers from JP are DLC. Nonetheless, they are still, very, very slick.
For a carrier of the Geiselle's quality, & PVD coated, the price is not bad & the difference between a PVD & a DLC carrier matters less that it does on the bolt where DLC's toughness is still an edge over CrN via PVD.
And a lot still depends on the quality of the sources doing the coatings. But I have no doubt that Geiselle is using a high quality source.
MM
I cannot complain about it, for the price. With the brownells discount, it was $100+tax&shipping.
Comparatively though, there is a big difference between this and the JP FMOS, in reliable operation, and thats where it mattered to me most.
The JP carrier, required their proprietary 1 piece gas key to run reliably.
The Geissele one will accept the bolt with either the JP 1 piece gas key, or the milspec 3 piece.
When I watched the SOTAR gauging video of the Geissele carrier, he specifically noted when gauging the internal diameter and the area for the gas rings as very tight (ideal for a match rifle) and ensuring a more sealed gas operation (with less gas leaking)..Im paraphrasing so I could be butchering that.
Similarly watching the JP gauging video, the JP carrier was looser in this tolerance. One of the items mentioned in that same video was that if you were having issues with the JP Bolt running reliably, ditch their 1 piece gas rings, for a milspec 3 piece set. I had that exact issue previously.
That's interesting about the bore ID for the gas rings.
I have a couple of the JP LMOS carriers but I changed the 1 PC rings with a standard 3 PC on the JP bolt...........never even attempted to use the 1 PC. Just didn't like the way the 1 PC felt.
No problems with the 2 I have. Both were bought as carriers only & one has a JP bolt in it, the other has a Y/M bolt as I recall.
Never measured the bore on any of the carriers.
But, yes, better gas ring sealing is never a bad thing.
I have a couple of the JP LMOS carriers but I changed the 1 PC rings with a standard 3 PC on the JP bolt...........never even attempted to use the 1 PC. Just didn't like the way the 1 PC felt.
No problems with the 2 I have. Both were bought as carriers only & one has a JP bolt in it, the other has a Y/M bolt as I recall.
Never measured the bore on any of the carriers.
But, yes, better gas ring sealing is never a bad thing.
Been using the box stick JP FMOS bcg for A while in 4 ARs ( yeah small sample size, started late and can’t buy more as I live in Wa) with no issues. These are accuracy oriented rifles . Maybe just lucky, but I like them.
I'd really like for someone to do a modern comparison of the "flared tail" style carriers, to see if they have any actual impact on accuracy.
