Borescope Picture

javentre

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I have a 700 5R 20" rifle. It's a really good shooter, I have no complaints. When checking out the bore with a scope, I found this ring about 2" from the muzzle. There are no bulges in the barrel or anything odd, I've never had a squib. I had the muzzle threaded by a local smith shortly after purchase.

What is this ring and what may have caused it?

WIN_20201020_12_46_35_Pro.jpg
 

Carlos Danger

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I saw something eerily similar to this in a factory RPR barrel. IIRC, I saw them in more than one location in the barrel but I'd say not quite as defined as that. I showed it to a pretty knowledgeable gunsmith and he really had no answers, although many others swore it was some sort of optical illusion. Barrel seemed to shoot really well up until I changed it out.
 

B y r o n

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Are you sure it is not an apparition of the bore scope? My Hawkeye provides a 90 degree viewing angle and have never seen anything like this. Nothing that was a 360 degree ring outside the chamber end of the barrel.
 

Tokay444

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    Smith must have really crushed it in his chuck jaws and distorted the bore.
     

    javentre

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    Wouldn't you expect some noticable marks on the outside if it was caused by an external crush? It's a matte stainless finish.
     
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    Tokay444

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    Massaging the outside surface is easier than massaging this inside.
    Find a 6” long dowel pin the same diameter as the minor and poke around in there.
     

    Hateca

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    Have you looked at it with the right angle mirror of the bore scope?

    Was the muzzle recrowned when threaded? If so what method was used?

    Remington barrels are hammer forged. Could be left over during manufacture when withdrawing the mandrel.
     
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    JGR1953

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    I have a 700 5R 20" rifle. It's a really good shooter, I have no complaints. When checking out the bore with a scope, I found this ring about 2" from the muzzle. There are no bulges in the barrel or anything odd, I've never had a squib. I had the muzzle threaded by a local smith shortly after purchase.

    What is this ring and what may have caused it?

    View attachment 7449929
    That almost looks like a lens or mirror from your bore scope has come loose and wedged in there.
    Scrubb it out good and check the end of your scope.
    From what I see it's pushing carbon on the lands but not the grooves and image is blurred inside the circle more.
    WIN_20201020_12_46_35_Pro.jpg
     
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    javentre

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    Even with these marks, the gun shoots 195 TMKs quite well. It's the best shooting 700 I've had, and it's the dreaded G prefix. This was from my last range session with it:

    IMG_5675.JPG

    6 Shots ... for those that hate 3 shote groups.

    IMG_5747.JPG



    Here's a right angle view of the groove.

    WIN_20201021_06_38_08_Pro.jpg
     

    Praeger

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    Looks like the smith used a rod to indicate the bore and it left a mark.
    I don't think so. A range/grizzly/indicator rod ride on a bushing that only contacts the lands.

    Smith must have really crushed it in his chuck jaws and distorted the bore.
    Likewise, don't think a chuck could create such a crisp mark on the interior of a barrel.
     
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    powerspc

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    So far outside my area of expertise it's frightening, but intrigued nonetheless. Perhaps a manufacturing "defect", i.e., it may have been left when they initially cut the rifling? Maybe because it's near the muzzle the bullet has already stabilized so it doesn't have any affect on the accuracy? Curious to see what others say.
     

    OneMoreNoMore

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    I saw that when he posted and had the same thought. Then couldn't reconcile the mark on both land and groove.
    Still intrigued

    Yeah your right and if what I was saying was right you would see linear drag marks as well either going in or when the rod was removed.
     

    javentre

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    I cleaned the bore and took one last pic. It's definitely scratched all the way around the bore, through the lands and grooves. It's not from being squished from the outside.

    This is also not my area of expertise, but I'm betting on manufacturing defect.


    WIN_20201021_08_25_29_Pro.jpg
     

    OneMoreNoMore

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    I don't think so. A range/grizzly/indicator rod ride on a bushing that only contacts the lands.


    Likewise, don't think a chuck could create such a crisp mark on the interior of a barrel.
    Yeah your right, I was thinking the ones my smith used was section of drill rod that he had turned down and didn’t use the bushing setup. Maybe a chip from the drilling process hung up for a second then it was rifled. The teslongs can make a small defect look huge too.
     

    javentre

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    No, I don't know that for sure. I bore scoped it for the first time yesterday.
     

    Tokay444

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    The op makes it sounds like you sent it out to have the muzzle threaded and it came back like that.
     

    javentre

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    Agreed. I don't like seeing it in there, but it doesn't seem to negatively impact function, so I'm not overly concerned about it. It's interesting how wrong something can look and not matter.
     

    javentre

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    The op makes it sounds like you sent it out to have the muzzle threaded and it came back like that.
    That's wasn't my intention. All I know is that it's there now, and the round count is approaching 1000 rounds.
     

    Bantam1

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    My factory Rem 5R barrel shot great but looked horrible. It looked like train tracks the entire length of the barrel on the rifling. It was definitely tighter in the center of the barrel as that was the only area that had copper fouling outside of the throat, or right after the throat. I could feel it pushing patches through. I let it bother me for a few minutes then realized it shot well so I didn't mess with it. I'll rebarrel it at some point.
     

    Terry Cross

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    The only way the ring could be in both the groove and the land is there was a defect in the steel prior to rifling or a problem with the mandrel when the barrel was hammer forged. The target tells all.
    ^^^
    This.

    Bore scopes have sent more accurate and perfectly serviceable barrels to an early recycle box than any other cause.
    Bore scopes have caused more unnecessary drama and concern for rifle owners than any other cause.

    BTW, I am NOT banging on javentre for his OP.
    That surface feature is squirrelly as hell and interesting. Worthy of asking questions but the rifle and its targets prove it is not an operational concern.

    But geez!, some of the replies about what could have caused it make my butt hurt to read.
    Pretty sure the same style of critical thinking is how some people decided who was a witch medieval villages. LOL....

    ./
     

    dragman

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    So why are you using a borescope?
    Multiple reasons. To verify shooting and cleaning process's. sometimes to trouble shoot a problem. But mostly I buy sale and trade high end guns all the time and most people exaggerate low round counts. I like to see what im working with.
     

    FisherT&C

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    I had a 700 in 7mm-08 with the same mark. You could see it without a bore scope. It shot fine for me, I gave it to a family member and it still shoots good for them too.
     
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    360moa

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    That's the most interesting bore anomoly I've seen in a long time. Do you use any type of cleaning rod guide in the muzzle? Do you start your cleaning rod from the muzzle end or chamber end?
     

    Mj30wilson900

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    Wouldn't you expect some noticable marks on the outside if it was caused by an external crush? It's a matte stainless finish.
    Not necessarily, the gunsmith could have used softer material like aluminum between the jaws so as not to Mark the outside. He could have put a pin gage in so he wouldn’t smash the bore but had the jaws to far back and the material bent around the end of the pin. I have seen this on other machined parts like a barrel where a guy was close to perfect on his indicator for run out on a four jaw chuck and tightens and tightens until it runs perfect but to tight.
    More than likely it was where the button was stopped or paused during machining while the operator looked at his phone or a defect in the material before rifling.
     
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    Terry Cross

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    Nope.
    Material displaced to conform to a gauge pin would have had a very unique profile at the stepdown point.
    Specifically, the tops of the lands contacting the gauge pin would have been deformed for at least the length of overlap (+/- some boundary distortion) shared between the jaws and the gauge pin.

    In the exceptionally unlikely event such a thing happened, it would not have simply left the ring at the end of the gauge pin contact.

    This didn't happen from cleaning. It didn't happen from the gunsmith setup or crush by the gunsmith. It didn't happen from shooting.

    ./
     

    Terry of illinois

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    From what you have showed us how it shoots I would not be worrying what it is. I would like to know how to reproduce it over & over again and not worry about it’s looks . Seems to shoot dam good to me .
     

    Terry Cross

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    What T of I said above.

    Most of the shooters on this forum can't shoot $5K rifles as good as the OP is shooting this R700.

    Kudos to javentre for actually knowing how to drive a rifle. Keep working on yourself and the software between your ears. Whatever you shoot at will be dead or have a splash mark damned close to where you aim.


    ./
     

    javentre

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    From what you have showed us how it shoots I would not be worrying what it is.
    Yea, I don't worry about it. This thread was simply to satisfy my curiosity on the origin of the scarring, not because I have an urge to replace it as some sort of chase to visual perfection.

    Do you use any type of cleaning rod guide in the muzzle? Do you start your cleaning rod from the muzzle end or chamber end?
    No, I only have a chamber guide, so I start at the chamber end. And, I'm not a clean freak about it. The round count is at 1000 and I've cleaned it 5 times. I try to clean it before the accuracy falls off, and I'd prefer to not have it happen mid range session. Somehow, that works out to every 200 rounds ro so.
     
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    FisherT&C

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    The imperfection is interesting. I believe it's from the manufacturing process, probably a inclusion or soft spot in the steel. Just the other day I scoped a guys bore and chamber to check for a carbon ring. There were several small bits of material missing from the lands in a few spots and he said the rifle shoots amazing. Things like this go to show we need not concern ourselves with what "looks" wrong and educate ourselves with proof. The target bears witness to the story the bullet told.
     

    StLPro2A

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    I have a 700 5R 20" rifle. It's a really good shooter, I have no complaints. When checking out the bore with a scope, I found this ring about 2" from the muzzle. There are no bulges in the barrel or anything odd, I've never had a squib. I had the muzzle threaded by a local smith shortly after purchase.

    What is this ring and what may have caused it?

    View attachment 7449929
    Since the mark appears to be on both the land and groove, could the rifling tool have stopped and re-started....ala tooling chatter..... during the rifling process??? Is the barrel cut, button, or hammer forged rifling?? Hammer forged with a blip in the original process????
     
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