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Brake Install, Bad Work. Pics.

nic_bravo_whiskey

nic_bravo_whiskey

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 30, 2008
554
6
El Paso, Texas
I ordered a Badger Thruster Brake from Triad. I have always liked the looks of this brake. Originally, I wanted to send it off to Phoenix Custom Rifles, but I ended up having it installed here locally by a guy with a good reputation. I was a little worried, but he told me he has done plenty of these in the past. I should've sent it off to PCR like my gut told me to do. Live and learn.

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You can actually feel where the barrel is smaller than the brake, and it's different in different parts around the brake. There are grooves carved into the barrel as well. What do you guys think? I don't think this is work of a good machinist.
 
did he plan on you getting it coated? looks like if he ran some emery cloth it would clean up?? how deep are the marks?
 
That is a belt sander job for sure. What did the smith say when your jaw dropped looking at it?
 
That sucks! I just sent two rifles off to a smith here on the hide for this reason, a local smith was recommended and I even seen a couple of his brakes installed but I don't like to take the chance. I just had a bad feeling about giving him my rifles so I said fuck it and paid the shipping and sent them off.
 
Yup, live and learn. You aren't the first so don't feel too bad. Throw some paint on it and go shoot.
 
I think he used the old "drag behind your pickup down a gravel road" method..... sorry, bro. I'd be embarrassed to hand that to a customer.
 
The marks are pretty deep, and I don't want to remove any more material on the barrel than he already has.

I didn't notice how bad it really was until I left and got it into the sun light. This guy is like 70 years old, so I didn't make a fuss about it, even though I should. I knew I should've sent it off. I knew it was beyond his capabilities. It's my fault for being lazy.

At least this wasn't done on a stainless steel barrel, like I'm planning on ordering soon. If it was, I wouldn't have been so nice.
 
Well, you are kind to a (excusable) fault. Was thinking of getting a local guy to do mine. Lesson learned.
 
Bradu said:
That sucks! I just sent two rifles off to a smith here on the hide for this reason, a local smith was recommended and I even seen a couple of his brakes installed but I don't like to take the chance. I just had a bad feeling about giving him my rifles so I said fuck it and paid the shipping and sent them off.
Click to expand...


I've done the same thing a few times myself. When the local "go to" smith (according to people I asked) mentioned sticking a reamer in my nitrided AAC barrel to get the headspace just right, I spent an extra $65 in shipping charges to send it to LongRifles. Chad has yet to disappoint and I knew it would be done right.


OP; 70 or not I would have raised hell about that. Age goes out the window when they fuck up something I paid them to do correctly the first time.
 
That contour going from the brake to the barrel is pretty pronounced. I understand not wanting to remove more barrel material but it might make more sense.

Local guys usually want to do right by their customers. I imagine if you showed him the flaws that you didn't notice until in the sunlight he'd try to make it right. I also understand if you're just done dealing with him. Sorry man.
 
Sinus211 said:
That contour going from the brake to the barrel is pretty pronounced. I understand not wanting to remove more barrel material but it might make more sense.

Local guys usually want to do right by their customers. I imagine if you showed him the flaws that you didn't notice until in the sunlight he'd try to make it right. I also understand if you're just done dealing with him. Sorry man.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't want him to touch it anymore.
 
Sinus211 said:
Can't blame you on that one brother. Judging by the work I'd go 3-1 odds he does more harm than good trying to fix the original shoddy workmanship.
Click to expand...

Yeah. He didn't get it right the first time. There will be no second time. Plus, I don't really see how he could improve it at all.


JFComfort said:
Paint it. It is clocked properly?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's clocked properly. I would not have let that one slide.
 
Yea that is scarry. I am lucky I have a premium gun smith that has built a rifle, supressor and installed several breaks and threaded several high end barrels for me. That would seriously piss me off.
 
nicholas306 said:
Why? Can't it just be tightened again?
Click to expand...

When doing final brake fitment/timing, you've got to "work it in" because the metal will settle a little with use. If you don't do this while fitting it, the owner will, simply by using it, taking it off to clean, etc etc. Next thing you know, the brake is a couple degrees over clocked, and needs a .001" or .002" of shimming to get it timed right.

I made this mistake when I fit my first brake.
 
turbo54 said:
When doing final brake fitment/timing, you've got to "work it in" because the metal will settle a little with use. If you don't do this while fitting it, the owner will, simply by using it, taking it off to clean, etc etc. Next thing you know, the brake is a couple degrees over clocked, and needs a .001" or .002" of shimming to get it timed right.

I made this mistake when I fit my first brake.
Click to expand...

That's just great
 
Damned! You guys are impossible. What you are looking at is the result of a dull or clogged file that he used to blend the brake to the bbl.. The "grooves" are only a few thou deep at most. Nothing a belt sander or some sandpaper couldn't fix. (yes I know some think a belt sander caused it)

OP should have explained to the blind old man (gunsmiths tend to go blind) that he was handling his baby and he was going to cry if the job wasn't perfect.

Emery cloth won't fix the dia diff but 10 min will remove the file marks. I'd be more concerned with the bore alignment than what a rattle can can cover.
 
I dont really see why this couldnt be fixed. If you just stick the barrel and brake in the lathe with the centre point in, and use 400grt or finer sand paper, it will be pretty good. If you the. Paint over the results will be ok.


Fra iPhone
 
turbo54 said:
Give it a couple weeks and 5-10 on/off cycles...

Then come back to report on the clocking.
Click to expand...

Why would you remove and replace a brake? Unless I was replacing a brake with a can I would not remove it. And since my state does not allow cans I have never removed a brake.
 
I remove mine for hunting so I don't have to wear hearing protection. Yeah I know I should wear it even unbraked but I don't when I'm hunting.
 
diverdon said:
Why would you remove and replace a brake? Unless I was replacing a brake with a can I would not remove it. And since my state does not allow cans I have never removed a brake.
Click to expand...

I take mine off when I clean. Easier. I only have 1 rifle with a brake though and it's a FTE so I don't have to worry about timing changes.

L
 
Have you unscrewed it yet to see what the threads look like?
 
RJBGuns00 said:
Damned! You guys are impossible. What you are looking at is the result of a dull or clogged file that he used to blend the brake to the bbl.. The "grooves" are only a few thou deep at most. Nothing a belt sander or some sandpaper couldn't fix. (yes I know some think a belt sander caused it)

OP should have explained to the blind old man (gunsmiths tend to go blind) that he was handling his baby and he was going to cry if the job wasn't perfect.

Emery cloth won't fix the dia diff but 10 min will remove the file marks. I'd be more concerned with the bore alignment than what a rattle can can cover.
Click to expand...
+1

It looks a little fudged up but I have seen more severe fuck ups that required the barrel to be rethreaded entirely, this looks like he could clean it up fairly easily, as long as the bore alignment and timing are correct.


I guess I am very luck to have a great local smith. He was a BR builder for years and his father was before him. My brother sends his stuff up from Texas to him because there is no one locally to him that he trust, plus his turn around time is unreal. I dropped my 300 SAUM off to him to be built and I had the barreled action back in 3 days chambered and threaded for a FTE brake and it shoots one hole groups at a 100yds. I wish more local smiths would take pride in their craftsmanship.
 
it doesnt necessarily have to be done with a belt sander. you can easily get that result in a lathe if you use too coarse sand paper and too low RPM while you move the sand paper back and fourth.
 
RJBGuns00 said:
Damned! You guys are impossible. What you are looking at is the result of a dull or clogged file that he used to blend the brake to the bbl.. The "grooves" are only a few thou deep at most. Nothing a belt sander or some sandpaper couldn't fix. (yes I know some think a belt sander caused it)

OP should have explained to the blind old man (gunsmiths tend to go blind) that he was handling his baby and he was going to cry if the job wasn't perfect.

Emery cloth won't fix the dia diff but 10 min will remove the file marks. I'd be more concerned with the bore alignment than what a rattle can can cover.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me? Cry? Did I mention his name here? No. I know I said that I didn't complain to him. Did you read that part? Guess not. I paid him even though I wasn't satisfied. I didn't ask for a discount. I even said that it was my fault. Get a clue man.

This work is NOT what I expect. If I take my finger along where the brake and barrel meet, I feel variances. I can even see where the barrel is level with the brake, and where it is not. Is that good work from a gunsmith that has used a lathe for 35 years? I sure as hell don't think so.

Next time I will tell whoever it is that is doing work for me, that it is "my baby".
 
RJBGuns00 said:
Damned! You guys are impossible. What you are looking at is the result of a dull or clogged file that he used to blend the brake to the bbl.. The "grooves" are only a few thou deep at most. Nothing a belt sander or some sandpaper couldn't fix. (yes I know some think a belt sander caused it)

OP should have explained to the blind old man (gunsmiths tend to go blind) that he was handling his baby and he was going to cry if the job wasn't perfect.

Emery cloth won't fix the dia diff but 10 min will remove the file marks. I'd be more concerned with the bore alignment than what a rattle can can cover.
Click to expand...

So you are saying this is acceptable work? Remind me not to have you do any work!
 
It looks to me like he ran the lathe down across the brake and didn't have the right insert for the lathe tool and got "built up edge" or BUE marks where the tool gets metal from the work welded to the tip. It comes and goes and that is why the marks are not continuous, usually. Some steels are a real bitch to get right, especially if you are trying to take off just .001 or less in a finish pass. Some steels you have to cut real fast and deep. Doesn't help your issue and I doubt it can be cleaned without taking about .003 off in one pass and then polishing. I have a hunk of steel on my lathe right now for a custom brake and I can't get a decent final pass from it for nothing. The roughing at .005 or better looked almost polished like chrome but the finish passes look like hell.
 
That will just buff out, no it suck's but you pay for what you get, sorry about it, but I would go chat with him, he might have something for you to fix/refund ???
 
Cncjerry said:
It looks to me like he ran the lathe down across the brake and didn't have the right insert for the lathe tool and got "built up edge" or BUE marks where the tool gets metal from the work welded to the tip. It comes and goes and that is why the marks are not continuous, usually. Some steels are a real bitch to get right, especially if you are trying to take off just .001 or less in a finish pass. Some steels you have to cut real fast and deep. Doesn't help your issue and I doubt it can be cleaned without taking about .003 off in one pass and then polishing. I have a hunk of steel on my lathe right now for a custom brake and I can't get a decent final pass from it for nothing. The roughing at .005 or better looked almost polished like chrome but the finish passes look like hell.
Click to expand...

I see what you are saying. But why would he even have to turn the barrel on the lathe? Shouldn't it be just the brake? The part with the marks is the barrel.
 
It looks to me like he started on the end of the brake to take a pass, probably to even-up a nonconcentric threading either on the barrel or the brake and continued into the barrel. It looks like the barrel diameter is smaller at the brake and then curves slightly back to the original diameter. He probably did that part with a file realizing that once he started cutting into the barrel that it had a taper of some degree and he would have needed to go all the way to the action, unfortunately. You can see the lathe tool marks in the brake cutouts as well.

You can get strips of Emory cloth in a roll and make it acceptable pretty quickly. I applaud your kindness in not making him feel bad but I wouldn't go back for other work as he should have been able to see this coming, assuming I am correct. If the brake had been threaded wrong (not concentric with the bore) then he should have sent the brake back. The question remains as to how well the brake bore is aligned with your muzzle but the first shot with answer that question.

You can always slap some Bondo on it. :)

It is pretty tough even with large, expensive equipment to get flush fitting shafts aligned when threads are cut by two different machine shops but he should have been able to get them within tenths and then lightly cleaned it up. He should have stayed off the barrel at a minimum on the finish pass.
 
thespecialist said:
I've done the same thing a few times myself. When the local "go to" smith (according to people I asked) mentioned sticking a reamer in my nitrided AAC barrel to get the headspace just right, I spent an extra $65 in shipping charges to send it to LongRifles. Chad has yet to disappoint and I knew it would be done right.


OP; 70 or not I would have raised hell about that. Age goes out the window when they fuck up something I paid them to do correctly the first time.
Click to expand...

Did Chad change his policy on working on nitrided barrels? Is it already chambered and you want to adjust the headspace some??
 
Bradu said:
So you are saying this is acceptable work? Remind me not to have you do any work!
Click to expand...

Didn't say it was acceptable, just saying it isn't a big deal.

You don't have to worry about me working for you. You couldn't make it past my customer barricade.
 
nicholas306 said:
Are you kidding me? Cry? Did I mention his name here? No. I know I said that I didn't complain to him. Did you read that part? Guess not. I paid him even though I wasn't satisfied. I didn't ask for a discount. I even said that it was my fault. Get a clue man.

This work is NOT what I expect. If I take my finger along where the brake and barrel meet, I feel variances. I can even see where the barrel is level with the brake, and where it is not. Is that good work from a gunsmith that has used a lathe for 35 years? I sure as hell don't think so.

Next time I will tell whoever it is that is doing work for me, that it is "my baby".
Click to expand...

Maybe you should get a clue. Yes it is crying to start a thread like this. You should have told him you wanted a better fit when you picked it up. I'm sure he would have obliged.
 
thespecialist said:
The barrel was already chambered, it was an AAC 260 Rem barrel. The headspacing needed to be done by grinding the recoil lug.
Click to expand...

I've rechambered a lot of AAC Nitrided barrels and they do fine. But they will also scratch easily which should tell you something. As a machinist, I can tell you that nitride being to tough to machine is a myth this industry has created to boost sales.
 
RJBGuns00 said:
Maybe you should get a clue. Yes it is crying to start a thread like this. You should have told him you wanted a better fit when you picked it up. I'm sure he would have obliged.
Click to expand...

This is a forum to discuss anything and everything regarding these rifles. I can't think of anywhere better for such a subject! In fact, there is one post in this thread where a guy was going to take his rifle to a local smith, but saw my results and decided that he learned my lesson. He is probably going to use one of the awesome builders that are on this site. Which is what I should've done. Imagine that!

This kind of work is obviously beyond this guys capabilities. I would be stupid to allow him to continue.
 
Cncjerry said:
It looks to me like he started on the end of the brake to take a pass, probably to even-up a nonconcentric threading either on the barrel or the brake and continued into the barrel. It looks like the barrel diameter is smaller at the brake and then curves slightly back to the original diameter. He probably did that part with a file realizing that once he started cutting into the barrel that it had a taper of some degree and he would have needed to go all the way to the action, unfortunately. You can see the lathe tool marks in the brake cutouts as well.

You can get strips of Emory cloth in a roll and make it acceptable pretty quickly. I applaud your kindness in not making him feel bad but I wouldn't go back for other work as he should have been able to see this coming, assuming I am correct. If the brake had been threaded wrong (not concentric with the bore) then he should have sent the brake back. The question remains as to how well the brake bore is aligned with your muzzle but the first shot with answer that question.

You can always slap some Bondo on it. :)

It is pretty tough even with large, expensive equipment to get flush fitting shafts aligned when threads are cut by two different machine shops but he should have been able to get them within tenths and then lightly cleaned it up. He should have stayed off the barrel at a minimum on the finish pass.
Click to expand...

I really hope it's aligned. My concern with the Emory cloth is taking additional material from the barrel. Like you said, .003 to clean it up. I think I'll just paint and shoot.
 
nicholas306 said:
I really hope it's aligned. My concern with the Emory cloth is taking additional material from the barrel. Like you said, .003 to clean it up. I think I'll just paint and shoot.
Click to expand...

You could always shoot it with a couple coats of primer and sand the primer down before painting it. It won't help the difference in diameter between the barrel and brake, but it'll hide the scratches.
 
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