Break in ammo question????

[slayer 2c]

Ok. So I’ve ordered a JP lrp-07 in 6.5 creedmore. I’ve read the instructions for proper break in of the barrel according to JP. What I’m looking fo is ammo recommendations? Do you use inexpensive, not cheap, rounds? Should I use match grade? Any grain I should lean towards? I’ve never put much stock in break in but this is my first “custom” gun and plan on following the instructions to the letter and any help would be appreciated!!!

 

[tna9001]

Just out of curiosity, what kind of break in does JP recommend?

 

[_Windrider_]

I would use good quality ammo always. The bad stuff will gunk up your system. Prime 130 gr would be a good choice for that JP.

I’m a break in skeptic especially for a quality barrel like JP no doubt uses but that’s a personal choice.

 

[slayer 2c]

Their manual reads to clean after the first 10-20 shots with a wet mop then J-b bore paste then a dry. Repeat every 20 for the next 60 and then again at 200.

Dill, I totally agre, but it’s hard to argue with the company you just sent a large check to!!

 

[tna9001]

Their manual reads to clean after the first 10-20 shots with a wet mop then J-b bore paste then a dry. Repeat every 20 for the next 60 and then again at 200.

Dill, I totally agre, but it’s hard to argue with the company you just sent a large check to!!

Interesting, I'd love to know what this process does. I'm with you though, if I was dropping that kind of dough I'd read and follow the directions

 

[USMC 308]

I have a JP 556. I do not believe in barrel break in. I clean thoroughly after every range trip. Groups .25 - .5 if I don't mess anything up. I don't shoot junk ammo...ever.

 

[Subwrx300]

Well SHLowLight just put out a GREAT podcast on this very same topic yesterday.

http://theeverydaysniper.podbean.com
Episode 13

Frank's points are very valid and given the pure number and volume of rounds/barrels he and his colleagues have accumulated over the years, I'd give it more weight than normal. I had a prior Howa 1500 in 6.5CM that I cleaned following a "normal" break-in cycle (clean shoot clean for 5 shots, then 5 shots groups then 10 shot etc) and kept squeaky clean for most of the first 400 rounds or so using standard cleaners and Kroil + JB bore paste + JB bore bright.

The groups suddenly opened up from .4-.5 to 1"+ with flyers that couldn't be accounted for. I checked the throat, lands and leade with a cerrosafe casting and fount that the throat had elongated almost .060" only along the top 1/3 while the bottom was normal length. Basically, the throat had become uneven and was causing bullets to pitch into barrel non-concentric to bore. Howa replaced the action and barrel and I changed methods to simply shoot and clean lightly over 200-300 rounds. 2500+ rounds later, it's still shooting .4-.5 and all is good in life. It's entirely possible that experience was a coincidence with bad reamer or misaligned chamber to bore however I cant say either way conclusively.

YMMV but I'm starting to agree with Gale McMillan and Frank on this topic more than I might have 3-4 years ago. Definitely worth a listen!

 

[bfoosh006]

While not in stock.. it comes and goes at that price, I'd be comfortable with this.

https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com...il/Rifle-Ammunition/prod99999043934/cat100114

 

[308pirate]

A high end barrel should not need break in.

A common, mass produced barrel gets Tubb Final Finish. If a barrel needs break in, it needs to be lapped and that's what Final Finish does.

I don't waste my time trying to burnish steel with copper and lead.

 

[BarrettBoy]

IMO with the semis, don't bother with a break-in. Those careful break-in procedures are more for those sub .5moa bolt actions or single shots.
It should shoot great straight out of the box, just enjoy it.

 

[308pirate]

Regardless of what accuracy I expect out of a rifle, I fire lap it if it fouls heavily with copper.

 

[MSTN]

Top shelf barrel workmanship is just getting better and better all the time. My belief is you're better off doing less than more.

With a high end barrel that has been correctly lapped and properly chambered, there's nothing to "break in" except possibly some light tool marks left in the throat from chambering. JB Bore Paste, at 600 grit, is a bit harsh for my tastes in a top shelf barrel, better suited for standard factory tubes. I prefer KG Industries KG-2, a non-imbedding 1200 grit bore polish. The less metal removed, the better, IMO.

My usual barrel prep steps - Start by checking the chamber, throat, bore, gas port, and crown with a borescope before assembly. Most barrels I use, e.g., Bartleins from Craddock Precision, Proof Research CFW, Noveske SS, V Seven, etc., typically don't need a thing.

If I do by chance spy a few tool marks in a throat, I'll mount the barrel in the receiver, mount the receiver in a vise, insert a bore guide into the receiver, and give the throat about 20 one inch strokes with a couple of VFG felt pellets impregnated with KG-2. Then I clean it and check again with the bore scope. You almost need sunglasses!

As shooting progresses with a SS barrel in a gas gun, you will develop erosion around the forward edge of the gas block. This is 100% normal. What I hate to see is a little chunk break out initially, with sharp edges, because this adversely affects accuracy by stripping the hell out of the bullet jackets. A simple visual clue is a single, narrow streak of copper showing at the muzzle. It can take 100-200 rounds for a "chunk" to blend in and let the barrel shoot to its potential.

I could not get by without my borescope!

Chrome lined is a whole different story. Here's where JB Bore Paste or KG-2 applied full length can make a world of difference. Don't think they can't be accurate, too.

 

[slayer 2c]

Wow. This question has led to a thousand more. I can see the break in or don’t argument is still alive and well. While I totally respect all the dissenting arguments, I must go with the manufacturer on this one. If for nothing else than to not “foul” pun intended any possiable warranty issues with the factory.

I did not know Frank had his own podcast and will be subscribing as soon as I finish typing this.

I’m going to be picking up 300 rounds of prime I think to shoot through the break in. I’ll let you all know how it goes. Please for all the non break in guys know I’m with you, but for this kind of change I gotta follow orders!!! Wish me luck!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I have only ever owned one polished/honed aftermarket barrel (L-W 260 Rem 28" drop-in), and found that after 7 rounds of fire/clean, fire/clean, it just wasn't accumulating copper, so I ceased the break-in attempt at a round count of 10. The rifle is going on 2 decades with that barrel, which was shot for 2-3 years in 1000yd F Open at Bodines. It does what I'd expect from the L-W barrel, and nicely enough for as long as it has left in its accurate lifespan.

My other bolt rifles are mostly Savages, and they carry factory barrels which are not polished/honed. I used the above break-in sequence mentioned by MSTN for some, and no break-in for the later ones. The ones without do seem to show some lag in settling down to better accuracy, but it doesn't concern me much since I allot the first 100 shots or so to case forming for my handloading brass. I use(d) fired PPU brass for my two Savage 11VT's, a .223, and a .308; each of which saw 100rd of basic Prvi-Partizan/PPU Military Ball Equivalent (55FMJ/223, and 150FMJ/308) as fireforming/break-in loads. This fired brass becomes the first lot for handloading with the barrels in question. I simply cleaned after each range session, usually 50rd per rifle. The 223 has had easily 1000rd through it by now and is reasonably match-accurate with the right handloads; the .308 is new and is probably at around 250rd fired, with accuracy well done settling in.

My AR-15's are a pair of Stag 6 Super Varminters, one going on a decade in use, and one just built up from a kit this past Autumn. Each is well past the 300rd mark, with the older one probably at or around 2000rd count. Both shot very well without any break-in sequence, and get cleaned as/when they show significant need from accuracy drop-off. I seem to get at least 300rd between cleanings, and do not do a full strip-cleaning; I mainly clean until the patch shows minimal residual copper. Recent Internet reading suggest that the Varminter 24" barrels could be coming out of McGowan, and Stag was (up until recently but no more) offering a .5MOA with factory match ammo accuracy guarantee. I found it possible to equal the guarantee occasionally but not every time (I'm not the shooter I once was, or thought I was...). Wherever the absolute truth in this lies, I'm still clearly happy with my Stag 6's.

There are two additional AR-15 Uppers; a well built, well respected factory CMMG 16" Bull WASP full Upper, and a homebrew lightweight Upper built around a very nice Stag Model 3 (NY-Compliant) 16" barrel. These have been fed a variety of 55-62gr ammo, are still at low round counts, and don't seem to have yet settled in all the way as accuracy goes.

Here are a couple of my thoughts. While break-in seems to have some value, I count it as an overhead paid for in bore wear. I do something like it, without the obsessive cleaning, more as an effort to fireform brass for the particular chamber, and to do some ballparking concerning initial handload composition (looking for obvious accuracy nodes). I honestly believe that the barrel needs that hundred rounds fired or so to do whatever break-in is actually good for, to get the barrel interior stabilized enough to allow for meaningful long-haul load development.

Assigning further deep thinking and attributing various assumptions about the process simply makes my old head hurt.

Back pre-Obama, I did a long term purchasing project at Wal-Mart, buying 100rd of Prvi-Partizan/PPU 55FMJBT on most visits at between $6 and $8 per 20. It comprises my utility brass stockpile, starting out as plinking/practice ammo, then serving as basic handloading brass, including for match loads. It works quite well enough for my humble needs. I'm about halfway through two 50cal cans of it. Since I own and shoot five rifles chambered as 5.56; I obviously do a lot of shooting and handloading in 223/5.56. My 308 activity is minimal, there's some more than that in .260, and a fairly significant effort in .30-'06, mostly 150gr M-1 Garand Ball Equivalent ammunition, but made to match grade specs (I.e. individually weighed charges accurate to .1gr). Since my Garand is glassbedded and has improved sights mounted, I think it's worthy of the effort to improve on the ammo as well.

So in summation, I think an economical round that runs at a higher pressure is a better for break-in, since it stresses the throat to a larger degree, which is where the bulk of the break-in wear is more beneficial, IMHO. Military Ball Equivalent ammunition seems to me to fill that bill a bit closer. I don't see any value in trying to break-in a polished bore, it's maybe a bad idea, even. I confine my break-in efforts to bolt guns, and treat my semi's as ready for full service from the first round on.

I am by no mans any kind of an expert of this subject, but I've been at this for a couple or three decades now; and have evolved both habits and viewpoints which a share here and now.

Greg

 

[flyright]

As the owner of an LRP-07, I too read the manual cover to cover but ultimately decided against the break in procedure. The reason being, after speaking with many BR shooters, well known gunsmiths as well as several barrel makers over the years, everyone differed on break in procedures or whether to do it at all but nearly all were against abrasives of any type. It kinda surprised me that JP recommended it. It makes sense to me that removing metal (enlarging bores) is not going to help accuracy in any way. Maybe I am completely off base here.

I cleaned the new JP barrel well with (bore guide) VFG pellets (I'm brushless now) and Carbon out followed by Wipe out - 7 passes I think. I shot about 20 rounds and was seeing 1/2 MOA. I cleaned again in the same way and next time out shot a ragged hole of 1/4 MOA including the first round. After another 20 rounds I cleaned again and shot basically one hole the next time out and this continues today at 100 yards. I had the chance to shoot at 600 yards recently and had several groups at 1.5 to 2.2 inches - all with factory ammo - and 2 different brands. I have 2 bolt guns that shoot as well but only with select hand loads.

Now, had I followed the recommended break in, maybe it would be doing even better but I don't see how - one slightly enlarged hole (100 yards) is pretty tough to beat. I've settled on buying top quality barrels and never plan to do anything differently for break in. I was once convinced that it was necessary but after skipping it on my last few rifles, I'm no longer concerned with it.

I've only had one rifle that I did the shoot one, clean one etc. method on that could keep up with my last few non break ins. I know the break in didn't hurt any of the barrels thanks to bore scoping before and after (saw no real change that a few rounds wouldn't do) but only one turned out to be a great shooter. I now feel had I not done anything special with it, it would have shot the same. No way to know for sure and I don't believe there's any way to prove break in benefits accuracy. I've seen quite a few 1/4 moa barrels that when bore scoped looked absolutely horrendous and beautiful high end barrels that were just meh shooters - bore scoping could not explain why. I've also seen some break ins that ruined barrels - using the wrong equipment and/or chemicals.

Some barrels take a bit of shooting to really shine, some of them can be damn finicky and need hand loads and some will just not shoot well. Not much we can do to improve upon what the barrel maker did. All IMHO.

Sorry such a long post but after a couple dozen trips down a road, you get to feel you know your way... My .03...

 

[Lowlight]

Never broke in the JP, just shot it ...



Shoot it like normal, clean it when you get home and then just lightly cleanings after that, harsh stuff is completely unnecessary and especially any "paste" to polish shit, LOL. If you want to kill your barrel life, start sticking a variant of Jewelers Rouge in there, I don't care if it is a factory barrel. If it needs that much work get rid of them. It's wrong, like bad tracking on a scope, would you put up with it.

I have been through 4 sets of tires on my Toureg, higher end stuff, 20", so spendy. Last month I took the car in and the dealer called and said, "you need new tires, they are past the wear point". I said, "What the Royal Fuck, they are new", I went in, asked the Service manager to look up my records as 100% of the work is from the dealer. Sure enough, Hankook Tires from them, bought less than 6 months earlier, with 8,000 miles on them were no good. So I swapped them immediately, my mileage went up, the road sounds were gone, the vehicles drives like new. My tires cost 2x more than a new barrel, and I got a great deal on them from a local shooter. The funny part is, I knew immediately they sucked because my mileage suffered and the ride was terrible. You know, you can see it or feel it.

Moral of the story, barrels are expendable, replaceable, guys trying to play with stuff that is not right is silly. If you get copper fouling in 2018, get a new gunsmith because I bet I can trace the problem back to him more so than the barrel. Same with a factory barrel, I shoot a bunch of factory rifles and don't break them in, if they need that much effort to get them to shoot, toss em. The Tikkas(2 in the last 9 Months), the Rugers (3 in the last year), the results are there, no break in, the JP in the video, No break, any new AI barrel, or Bartlein I use, no break-in.

The idea that shoot 1, clean, shoot 2, clean will do anything different than shoot 100 go home and clean as normal is a bit silly. if the powder is burning out the throat, the same powder will burn away the rough patches. If the gun fouls and needs to be cleaned every 10 or so rounds it was not right to begin with.

it's your time, your barrel, your effort, I try not to waste any of it. If you have no issue wasting your own time, more power to you.

PS, listen to my podcast about borescopes, I think above will mirror what I say about stuff looking like the surface of the moon and still working out great for guys. Borescopes are not necessary, end results matter, what the inside looks like is irrelevant to the big picture.

 

[TheGerman]

http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html

The last reply from McMillan is all you need to know about barrel break in.

 

[Lowlight]

More importantly look at the DATE he wrote this,

From: Gale McMillan <" gale"@mcmfamily.com>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 700 break in
Date: 8 Aug 1997 00:01:07 -0400

Arthur Sprague wrote:

# On 29 Jul 1997 22:50:26 -0400, [email protected] (John W. Engel)
# wrote:
#
# #This is how (some) benchrester break in barrels, and it does work.
# #The mechanism is that the bore has pores in it (microns in size).
# #If you simply shoot a box or two through it without cleaning, the
# #pores fill up with gilding metal, and stay that way. If you
# #follow the above procedure (and they mean *clean* between shots!),
# #the pores are "smoothed over" with each successive shot. A barrel
# #correctly broken in is MUCH easier to clean than one that is
# #not. If it is a good quality tube, it will also be more accurate.
# #Regards,
# #whit
#
# Well, the range hours here are quite limited. On my first trip I
# managed to fire a whole fourteen rounds, with a thorough cleaning
# after each round. It couldn't hurt! Fun gun! Difficult to think of
# .223 as a battle round after experience with .30-06 and .45ACP, but it
# surely going to be a pleasure to shoot.
# Thanks to all for their advice.

This is total hogwash! It all got started when a barrel maker that I
know started putting break in instructions in the box with each barrel
he shipped a few years ago. I asked him how he figured it would help
and his reply was If they shoot 100 rounds breaking in this barrel
that's total life is 3000 rounds and I make 1000 barrels a year just
figure how many more barrels I will get to make. He had a point it
defiantly will shorten the barrel life. I have been a barrel maker a
fair amount of time and my barrels have set and reset bench rest world
records so many times I quit keeping track (at one time they held 7 at
one time) along with HighPower,Silhouette,smallbore national and world
records and my instructions were to clean as often as posable preferably
every 10 rounds. I inspect every barrel taken off and every new barrel
before it is shipped with a bore scope and I will tell you all that I
see far more barrels ruined by cleaning rods than I see worn out from
normal wear and tear. I am even reading about people recommending
breaking in pistols. As if it will help their shooting ability or the
guns.
Gale Mc.

Bold print via me ...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

All of my higher volume shooter barrels have barrel nuts. 'Nuff said.

Greg

 

[Flyingbullseye]

The only "break in" a good barrel chambered by a competent smith needs is cleaning before you go to the range the first time and that's it.

 

[slayer 2c]

Never broke in the JP, just shot it ...



Shoot it like normal, clean it when you get home and then just lightly cleanings after that, harsh stuff is completely unnecessary and especially any "paste" to polish shit, LOL. If you want to kill your barrel life, start sticking a variant of Jewelers Rouge in there, I don't care if it is a factory barrel. If it needs that much work get rid of them. It's wrong, like bad tracking on a scope, would you put up with it.

I have been through 4 sets of tires on my Toureg, higher end stuff, 20", so spendy. Last month I took the car in and the dealer called and said, "you need new tires, they are past the wear point". I said, "What the Royal Fuck, they are new", I went in, asked the Service manager to look up my records as 100% of the work is from the dealer. Sure enough, Hankook Tires from them, bought less than 6 months earlier, with 8,000 miles on them were no good. So I swapped them immediately, my mileage went up, the road sounds were gone, the vehicles drives like new. My tires cost 2x more than a new barrel, and I got a great deal on them from a local shooter. The funny part is, I knew immediately they sucked because my mileage suffered and the ride was terrible. You know, you can see it or feel it.

Moral of the story, barrels are expendable, replaceable, guys trying to play with stuff that is not right is silly. If you get copper fouling in 2018, get a new gunsmith because I bet I can trace the problem back to him more so than the barrel. Same with a factory barrel, I shoot a bunch of factory rifles and don't break them in, if they need that much effort to get them to shoot, toss em. The Tikkas(2 in the last 9 Months), the Rugers (3 in the last year), the results are there, no break in, the JP in the video, No break, any new AI barrel, or Bartlein I use, no break-in.

The idea that shoot 1, clean, shoot 2, clean will do anything different than shoot 100 go home and clean as normal is a bit silly. if the powder is burning out the throat, the same powder will burn away the rough patches. If the gun fouls and needs to be cleaned every 10 or so rounds it was not right to begin with.

it's your time, your barrel, your effort, I try not to waste any of it. If you have no issue wasting your own time, more power to you.

PS, listen to my podcast about borescopes, I think above will mirror what I say about stuff looking like the surface of the moon and still working out great for guys. Borescopes are not necessary, end results matter, what the inside looks like is irrelevant to the big picture.

Well there you go!!!!

To be honest I downloaded Podbean and have been burning through the podcasts on my way to and from work each day. A bore Scope I will not be buying. )
The masters have spoken, I will shoot it and clean it and be happy!!!!

Thank you for taking the time to respond one and all. I'll see you on the firing line.

 

[elfster1234]

Other than cleaning the bore and chamber when I first get the rifle, I never do any type of barrel break in. I just go to town. Clean after my first outing, then don’t clean till the barrel tells me accuracy wise to clean again which is usually around 400 to 600 rounds