Gunsmithing Buddy’s gun grouping all over

[Freediver111]

So my buddy came to the range today with a rem 700 in 7-08. Pencil thin barrel, horribly trigger weight, and wood stock that rubs the barrel in a spot when you pass a dollar bill down it.

He bought a 6x SWFA SS on Black Friday and I mounted it for him on a pic rail. He’s mostly interested in using it as a lighter weight hunting rifle out to 400 yards. Seems reasonable.

Problem was, got it on paper, then the shots walked all over the f’in place. Like 3” high, then 3” left, then 7 Mils high. All over the place.

I told him I’d look at it but the only thing I can really do is sand down the barrel channel and bed the action. Would you think there’s a good chance that could fix it? If it’s a barrel issue, he’s going to have to talk to a smith. To some degree for his uses, I’d almost steer him to a Ruger American Predator.

Thoughts?

 

[stello1001]

Maybe the barrel is heating up badly???

 

[stello1001]

Although bedding and sanding down barrel channel will help...

 

[Healy]

I have a 700vtr that was the same way I shot about 100 rounds through it put it in a hs stock and now it’s shooting. 3/4 groups

 

[Freediver111]

Can the barrel heat up that much in 6 shots? It was happening with each shot, and it was like 10 degrees out.

 

[Freediver111]

I should also mention that he claims at some point early on he could get it to group fine. That being said, he has maybe 150-200 rounds down it and would check a 3-5 shot group, then go hunt. Now it’s all over the place.

 

[stello1001]

Can the barrel heat up that much in 6 shots? It was happening with each shot, and it was like 10 degrees out.

I didn't know initially how many rounds were fired since it wasn't mentioned, but it really depends on the rate of fire. Maybe yes, maybe no. Sanding down barrel channel and bedding, as originally suggested, would definitely be a good idea.

 

[Freediver111]

I didn't know initially how many rounds were fired since it wasn't mentioned, but it really depends on the rate of fire. Maybe yes, maybe no. Sanding down barrel channel and bedding, as originally suggested, would definitely be a good idea.

It’s a 10 year old gun give or take, but definitely not shot a lot. I’ll try working on the stock. He’s pretty tempted to sell it cheap and buy a RAP though. I’m tempted to buy it for the action and turn it into something cool down the road.

 

[308pirate]

Give it back to him and tell him that it's his problem.

Sounds like a dick move but it's not. People learn nothing when someone else solves their problems.

If you're feeling charitable, guide him through what needs to be done but whatever you do DO NOT do it for him.

 

[Freediver111]

To complicate matters, I just read an article on pencil thin barrels that suggested they like a constant pressure at the fore end. Is this true?

 

[Freediver111]

Give it back to him and tell him that it's his problem.

Sounds like a dick move but it's not. People learn nothing when someone else solves their problems.

If you're feeling charitable, guide him through what needs to be done but whatever you do DO NOT do it for him.

Only problem with that is I DO like to tinker. It’s my OCD I guess. It’s his problem, but I like to “fix” things. Trust me though, I have enough to do that I don’t need another issue to fix. I may just tell him to work it out on his own.

 

[308pirate]

To complicate matters, I just read an article on pencil thin barrels that suggested they like a constant pressure at the fore end. Is this true?

Sometimes it is.

 

[308pirate]

Only problem with that is I DO like to tinker. It’s my OCD I guess. It’s his problem, but I like to “fix” things. Trust me though, I have enough to do that I don’t need another issue to fix. I may just tell him to work it out on his own.

There's a thread in the bear pit about "men" who don't even know how to change a fucking tire. This, to me, is the same thing. If a shooter can't even do some very basic work on his firearms, WTF?

Teach, don't do.

 

[Freediver111]

There's a thread in the bear pit about "men" who don't even know how to change a fucking tire. This, to me, is the same thing. If a shooter can't even do some very basic work on his firearms, WTF?

Teach, don't do.

I better make sure he can change a fucking tire and his oil before I help him. No tolerance for that shit.

 

[pell1203]

Have action, base, and ring screws been checked for proper torque? Something could just be loose.

 

[Freediver111]

Have action, base, and ring screws been checked for proper torque? Something could just be loose.

Yup. Did a full torque check when I mounted his scope. Oh, and while I’m not a gunsmith, I’ve mounted enough scopes and bedded actions to know what I’m doing.

 

[davsco]

To complicate matters, I just read an article on pencil thin barrels that suggested they like a constant pressure at the fore end. Is this true?

so i have had a rem custom ks that i got when they first came out. last winter i'm playing with it and never checked before, but did and it wasn't fully free floated. every rifle needs to be free floated, right? so i pull the barreled action and sand down the barrel channel where it was sticking up right at the front of the stock. super proud of myself, this thing will now shoot super good! well, it didn't, and the accuracy went to total crap, 4 - 6" at 100yds. then i did some reading i prob should have done before, and yes, some shops pressure bed thinner barrels. so i got some devcon and built up another pressure pad and accuracy went back to where it was before.

 

[Brux]

If it shot good before he or you put a new scope on it then its likely the scope. Common Sence

 

[Codiekfx400]

Clean the copper out of that tent stake.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I wouldn't float a thin sporter barrel. I free floated a savage hunting rifle barrel and accuracy went to shit. My Rem700 30-06 barrel isn't floated, is in a wood stock, and actually has two pads on the front of the stock under the barrel that puts pressure on the barrel. It's the most forgiving and consistently accurate rifle I own. Load development is a breeze. It will shoot 5 shot groups without changing POI as well. Best 5 shot group to date is .38 MOA with several 1/2 to 3/4 MOA groups.

 

[Freediver111]

This issue happened before I put a new scope in for him. He had a cheap vortex before and it was doing the same thing. At that time I had him clean the barrel with cooper killer. Didn’t help. He bought a new scope, rail, and rings in hopes his old cheap set up was the issue. Apparently not.

 

[Oregonmuley]

If this is one of the Remington Mountain rifles that came in the laminated stocks or even just a regular wood stock they did usually have a front pressure pad in them and often times those skinny contour barrels shot better with them in. I had one and before I messed with it I bedded the action but left the pressure point in, rifle shot great so that was it. Have known guys remove it and accuracy went to heck. It really does seem to help on those mountain contour barrels Remington used. Makes it tough at the range - they will heat up after about the 3rd or so shot. Good hunting rigs though once you get them dialed in.

 

[Freediver111]

If this is one of the Remington Mountain rifles that came in the laminated stocks or even just a regular wood stock they did usually have a front pressure pad in them and often times those skinny contour barrels shot better with them in. I had one and before I messed with it I bedded the action but left the pressure point in, rifle shot great so that was it. Have known guys remove it and accuracy went to heck. It really does seem to help on those mountain contour barrels Remington used. Makes it tough at the range - they will heat up after about the 3rd or so shot. Good hunting rigs though once you get them dialed in.

Not sure the exact model. I can tell you it has a foreend cap, Monte Carlo style cheek piece with normal wood stock, and removable magazine. So I assume it’s a standard 700 BDL. My guess is it’s around 15 years old.

I think he’s going to sand down the barrel channel today and try it. If that doesn’t work, I told to him try bedding it.

I’m almost tempted to offer him some money and sell everything but the action for a future build.

 

[308pirate]

It's probably the 700 BDL-DM from your description.

Before doing ANY stock alterations, I'd load a box of ammo with these bullets: http://www.davidtubb.com/final-finish-bullet-kits/finalfinish-bulletkit-284 and send them down the bore strictly following the kits directions.

If that doesn't work, then start making physical alterations to the rifle. Or dump it.

 

[Freediver111]

It's probably the 700 BDL-DM from your description.

Before doing ANY stock alterations, I'd load a box of ammo with these bullets: http://www.davidtubb.com/final-finish-bullet-kits/finalfinish-bulletkit-284 and send them down the bore strictly following the kits directions.

If that doesn't work, then start making physical alterations to the rifle. Or dump it.

After looking up the BDL-DM, that is his gun. I’ll let him know about those bullets. He doesn’t reload, so he’d have to buy the dies and components but I can show him how on my press. Up to him at this point I guess!

 

[Easy_E]

Did someone else shoot the rifle ? Check all the easy stuff first crown , bolt handle contact , trigger clearance etc. Most have spare stocks laying around put it in another stock and shoot it .
I like to know the problem before making changes.

 

[Freediver111]

Did someone else shoot the rifle ? Check all the easy stuff first crown , bolt handle contact , trigger clearance etc. Most have spare stocks laying around put it in another stock and shoot it .
I like to know the problem before making changes.

I shot it. Same thing. All over the place. The trigger pull was pretty bad at what I assume is in the 5-7 lbs range. But that being said, it was all over even with me shooting. Unfortunately I don’t own and Remys, so stock swapping isn’t possible. I suppose I could ask around and likely find one to borrow.

 

[GH41]

Unfucking believable!! 27 replies to a ----- asking a dumbass question. This place is getting worse by the day.

 

[Freediver111]

Ok.

 

[Snuby642]

Old wooden stocks can and do sometimes whorp.
In the old days some would sand it out.
Some would rebuild the pad up front.
Some would get upset and bed the
whole barrel. Yes the whole thing.
I owned some like this.
Costs little to.try.

2 we're tack drivers 3 were not.

 

[sandwarrior]

So my buddy came to the range today with a rem 700 in 7-08. Pencil thin barrel, horribly trigger weight, and wood stock that rubs the barrel in a spot when you pass a dollar bill down it.

He bought a 6x SWFA SS on Black Friday and I mounted it for him on a pic rail. He’s mostly interested in using it as a lighter weight hunting rifle out to 400 yards. Seems reasonable.

Problem was, got it on paper, then the shots walked all over the f’in place. Like 3” high, then 3” left, then 7 Mils high. All over the place.

I told him I’d look at it but the only thing I can really do is sand down the barrel channel and bed the action. Would you think there’s a good chance that could fix it? If it’s a barrel issue, he’s going to have to talk to a smith. To some degree for his uses, I’d almost steer him to a Ruger American Predator.

Thoughts?

Remington standard and lightweight barrels are notorious for not being fully normalized, thus the walking shots. Normalizing is heating up the barrel to relieve stresses. You'll see it pronounced when the barrel heats up and if you change loads. With your buddy's barrel touching the inside of the barrel channel, he'll have L-R pressure that sends bullets all over.

Your description doesn't surprise me as to why he's having issues.

The best thing you can do is take the barreled action out of the stock and sand it out to where the barrel is free and clear from the stock. While it's out, hog out the inlet and bed it. Next best thing to do is save some money and rebarrel that action. 7-08 would be a great choice. I recommend getting it in a tight twist so you you can shoot the heavies.

Added: Oh yeah, turn that trigger down.

 

[bax]

Try the easy obvious stuff.

Pull the scope, base and rings. Carefully reinstall the base and rings and try a different scope. The replacement doesn't have to be a great scope - you were getting 3-4 inch groups, a good 4x should shoot a 1-inch group and that is good enough to test the scope.

Make sure that the recoil lug is solidly in contact with the stock.

I had a Remington 700 PSS in 223. It wouldn't shoot worth a damn. I tried lots of stuff, no good. I finally decided to convert it to a 308 so I bought a new barrel and a one-piece bolt from PTG. Thinking I might want to reuse the old bolt I disassembled it. The firing pin was significantly bowed, it came that way from the factory. I have a similar story about 36x Leupold benchrest scopes - I had 2 bad ones at the same time so even the scope swap didn't point out the problem.

My favorite trick is to trial-assemble base, rings, and scope, torque everything and then declare victory. Later, because there is no loctite, the base screws back out and the base gets loose. The gun shoots erratically and the loose base is not noticeable unless you are looking for it. I have actually done this twice. That reminds me, I just moved two scopes ... time to check the loctite.

One more thing. You said that he had this gun for a while. Maybe he had the ammo for a while too and, since he is not a gun guy, maybe he didn't store the ammo like he should. Someone ought to pop for a new box of ammo.

 

[LRI]

So my buddy came to the range today with a rem 700 in 7-08. Pencil thin barrel, horribly trigger weight, and wood stock that rubs the barrel in a spot when you pass a dollar bill down it.

He bought a 6x SWFA SS on Black Friday and I mounted it for him on a pic rail. He’s mostly interested in using it as a lighter weight hunting rifle out to 400 yards. Seems reasonable.

Problem was, got it on paper, then the shots walked all over the f’in place. Like 3” high, then 3” left, then 7 Mils high. All over the place.

I told him I’d look at it but the only thing I can really do is sand down the barrel channel and bed the action. Would you think there’s a good chance that could fix it? If it’s a barrel issue, he’s going to have to talk to a smith. To some degree for his uses, I’d almost steer him to a Ruger American Predator.

Thoughts?

Rule number 1 (for me anyways) when a rifle goes schizophrenic in its shot plot.

1: I look for loose and binding stuff.

• Are the guard screws actually tight? -Blind hole guard screw type recievers are notorious for this. (not applicable in this description really, but still very good to know)
• Are the base screws tight and not bottoming out in hole prior to the head purchasing and loading the base(s)?
• Is the bolt handle contacting the stock?
• Listen to the fire control in a dry fire. Is the assembly "snapping" or does it sound like it has mashed potatoes in it?
• Is the floor metal/trigger guard bound up or is it registering properly in the inlet?
• If a DBM, is the internal magazine box contacting the bottom of the action or is the trigger chassis contacting down in the well?
• If a BDL/ADL, is the internal box able to float up and down (this is what you want) or is it stuck, contacting both reciever feed lips, and the floor metal/stock in a manner that prevents it from sliding up/down with minimal effort? (this is one a lot of folks miss and it basically prevents the action from ever purchasing the bedding/inlet with any kind of meaningful preload)
• Scope rings tight?
• Barrel making intermittent contact with the rifle stock barrel channel?

Any one or any combination of these will create off call shots.

Happy hunting.

C.

 

[Freediver111]

Rule number 1 (for me anyways) when a rifle goes schizophrenic in its shot plot.

1: I look for loose and binding stuff.

• Are the guard screws actually tight? -Blind hole guard screw type recievers are notorious for this. (not applicable in this description really, but still very good to know)
• Are the base screws tight and not bottoming out in hole prior to the head purchasing and loading the base(s)?
• Is the bolt handle contacting the stock?
• Listen to the fire control in a dry fire. Is the assembly "snapping" or does it sound like it has mashed potatoes in it?
• Is the floor metal/trigger guard bound up or is it registering properly in the inlet?
• If a DBM, is the internal magazine box contacting the bottom of the action or is the trigger chassis contacting down in the well?
• If a BDL/ADL, is the internal box able to float up and down (this is what you want) or is it stuck, contacting both reciever feed lips, and the floor metal/stock in a manner that prevents it from sliding up/down with minimal effort? (this is one a lot of folks miss and it basically prevents the action from ever purchasing the bedding/inlet with any kind of meaningful preload)
• Scope rings tight?
• Barrel making intermittent contact with the rifle stock barrel channel?

Any one or any combination of these will create off call shots.

Happy hunting.

C.

Thanks for taking the time to go through all of that. I’ll make sure he sees it and we can hopefully go through it all together.
Much appreciated!