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Build a 1 mile gun

A

Apothus

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 12, 2007
212
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35
Prescott, Arizona
I've always been infatuated with long range shooting for a long time and have recently gotten a good rifle and some gear. This last weekend I pushed my longest shots from 1000 yards previously to 1200 yards with my 6.5 Creedmoor. I was super stoked and still wearing the grin, however I've got the sickness for distance and have an ultimate goal of 1 mile. According to the ballistic chart my Creed is going to go subsonic at 1500ish yards, so I want to go bigger. Bigger means more money, and I know it takes money to play this game. We just bought a house, my wife wants to try for another kid and we have 2 car payments. This is going to take time and patience.

My first thought was a factory 338 Lapua, but I don't trust the crap Remington is putting out and I've read chamber issues and ejector/extractor problems with the savages. That and the fact it's $5 a trigger pull makes me move to my next thought.

I started looking at building a custom with quality parts. I started with the action and saw $1300 to $1600 and stopped there. I can't even justify that to myself much less my wife.

My third thought was this build:

-Howa 24 inch threaded barreled action in 300 win mag
-MDT HS3 long action chassis
-MDT V4 skeleton stock
-AR pistol grip of some flavor
-Badger Ordnance 45 moa scope rail
-Vortex 30mm scope rings
-Precision Armament M11 brake
-Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50

It would be $1500ish for rifle sans scope and I can buy the parts slowly. What do you guys think? I know it's not a Defiance with a bartlein but its not a Mossberg MVP either. Is there anything similarly priced that would be better? Would you change any components? The numbers say I can get to a mile while still being supersonic. Is this a reasonable hope?

Thanks guys
 
I believe that Robert Vestal in Va took a 6.5x47Lapua (very similar to the Creedmoor) to a mile last year or so. 18year old kid behind the trigger.

Get a reloading kit and build your own ammo. You may surprise yourself.

Also, look at putting a new tube on your current rifle. Sierra just came out with a 150gn 6.5 bullet. Push that thru a longer, fast twist tube and it may do the trick.

However buying a new gun is always an option I'm willing to pursue.
 
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Load Flat Line bullets in your 6.5. That would be a very cost effective option.
 
Apothus said:
I've always been infatuated with long range shooting for a long time and have recently gotten a good rifle and some gear. This last weekend I pushed my longest shots from 1000 yards previously to 1200 yards with my 6.5 Creedmoor. I was super stoked and still wearing the grin, however I've got the sickness for distance and have an ultimate goal of 1 mile. According to the ballistic chart my Creed is going to go subsonic at 1500ish yards, so I want to go bigger. Bigger means more money, and I know it takes money to play this game. We just bought a house, my wife wants to try for another kid and we have 2 car payments. This is going to take time and patience.

My first thought was a factory 338 Lapua, but I don't trust the crap Remington is putting out and I've read chamber issues and ejector/extractor problems with the savages. That and the fact it's $5 a trigger pull makes me move to my next thought.

I started looking at building a custom with quality parts. I started with the action and saw $1300 to $1600 and stopped there. I can't even justify that to myself much less my wife.

My third thought was this build:

-Howa 24 inch threaded barreled action in 300 win mag
-MDT HS3 long action chassis
-MDT V4 skeleton stock
-AR pistol grip of some flavor
-Badger Ordnance 45 moa scope rail
-Vortex 30mm scope rings
-Precision Armament M11 brake
-Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50

It would be $1500ish for rifle sans scope and I can buy the parts slowly. What do you guys think? I know it's not a Defiance with a bartlein but its not a Mossberg MVP either. Is there anything similarly priced that would be better? Would you change any components? The numbers say I can get to a mile while still being supersonic. Is this a reasonable hope?

Thanks guys
Click to expand...
Get one of the AICS chassis setups with a Remington 5R 300 win setup from Euro Optic. Cant beat the price, and mine was a laser at 1 mile with my hand loads.
https://www.eurooptic.com/Remington-Defense-700-police-300-win-mag.aspx
I ran a MDT chassis on mine, had a timney trigger and ran 208 ELD bullets at 3,000 FPS. No issues with consistent 3/4 MOA grouping, boring at 1000m and 80% at 1 mile if it wasn't windy, about 50-60% if it was (I shoot in a valley so wind calls are near impossible as they aren't consistent to where I shoot from and I don't have flags).

With that in mind, I think youre going to hate life attempting to do it with a Viper mainly because of the clarity attempting to see a mile, and second, the reticle and turret setup. I have to dial 16-17 mils for 1 mile depending on conditions for the day (which those wont do without some serious built in elevation to the mount), and hearing the steel ring is difficult even with the slightest breeze. Seeing a splash with my NF scope isn't difficult, but if you can see it with a cheaper Vortex, even if you went to a better PST, id be surprised. Also keep in mind if youre not reloading, there isn't a ton of long range purpose built factory ammo. The Gold Medal Match is 190 gr and pretty slow by standard, and if you get into custom ammo or the Mil grade 225 gr stuff, youre going to spend a lot. The 338 option will buck the wind better, but I honestly preferred my 300 win at 1 mile and have since invested in a better rifle by selling both of my other bolt guns for one "do it all".

To put things into perspective, youre at the drag strip watching people run 10s while youre in the 13s. You figure you would rather be quicker like them, but want to start with a base model Honda civic when they are all running Mustangs, with hopes of achieving the same results in the end, all while using parts strictly from Autozone. Its ALWAYS going to be an uphill battle, and based on what you chose for your components, nothing is exactly "upgradable" as you go. Either get into a Remington setup that you can at least easily modify and pair it with some quality glass ( AT LEAST a Razor Gen 1), save up for better stuff, or tap out before wasting money and realize the 1 mile game isn't for everyone. If your goal is to just plant a couple rounds on a 4 foot gong once or twice, then luck will eventually get you on target, however if your goal is to "consistently" hit a normal size target at 1 mile (1 MOA or less), then enjoy your 1200 yard stuff until youre ready to seriously drop about $5,000 minimum.
 
Your 6.5 Creedmoor will hit at a mile and beyond. Don't spend $1500 on a new setup just to try to make a 1 mile hit. Take that money and invest it in a new barrel, new glass, and/or reloading upgrades. I have no problem hitting a mile at sea level in SC and went 4 of 10 at 1990 with it in Tx earlier this month.
 
Backspace said:
Your 6.5 Creedmoor will hit at a mile and beyond. Don't spend $1500 on a new setup just to try to make a 1 mile hit. Take that money and invest it in a new barrel, new glass, and/or reloading upgrades. I have no problem hitting a mile at sea level in SC and went 4 of 10 at 1990 with it in Tx earlier this month.
Click to expand...

This is what I was going to suggest. Just rebarrel the rifle with a longer barrel. Start playing with velocities and add 25-35fps per inch to see what you need for barrel length.
 
Your 6.5 Creedmoor can make it to a mile. I've taken mine to 2,200 yards successfully, with 140 ELDM's. I agree with what Backspace has stated.

If you want less of a challenge, you can build a .300NM. That will make a mile seem relatively easy compared to a 6.5. But if money is tight, it would be better spent on upgrading your current setup.
 
19Scout77 said:
There is no such thing as an inexpensive 1 mile rifle
Click to expand...

This.

I was on the big boomer train a while back, with the intention on building a 338 Norma. After reading, thinking, discussing with friends, I ended up ditching the idea of a large bore, at least for the foreseeable future. As others have said, invest in some reloading equipment, spend time working up a load, and doing what you can to keep ES and SD numbers low. Your 6.5 Creedmoor can reach out there quite a ways.

To go farther "easier" (and I hesitate using the term "easier" here, so don't interpret this as a "magic bullet" so to speak), you don't necessarily have to go "larger" in a bullet diameter sense. A 6.5 SAUM or the new 6.5 PRC are what could be considered the short magnum "big brother" versions of your 6.5 Creedmoor and net you the extra velocity to keep the bullet supersonic longer. This could be accomplished with a new barrel and bolt on your current rifle, thus giving you a "new" rifle and keeping the cost down compared to the whole new rig you described.
 
I can’t believe all the recommendations for a factory Remington especially when considering target shooting at 1mile. Asking for headaches.

Not sure what your current rifle is but with so many companies making easy self install barrels you could purchase 1-2 barrels and get some nice reloading supplies with your budget. The barrels could be different chamberings.

New house = New reloading room. Avid rifle shooters reload. People that shoot a mile reload.

 
RampedRaptor said:
I can’t believe all the recommendations for a factory Remington especially when considering target shooting at 1mile. Asking for headaches.

Not sure what your current rifle is but with so many companies making easy self install barrels you could purchase 1-2 barrels and get some nice reloading supplies with your budget. The barrels could be different chamberings.

New house = New reloading room. Avid rifle shooters reload. People that shoot a mile reload.
Click to expand...

What headaches are you referring to? What problems have you had with your Remington when shooting to 1 mile?

Out of curiosity, I know everyone seems to think barrels just drop right in with a pair of vice grips, duct tape and elbow grease, but have YOU ever personally had a barrel upgraded in your rifle that, in the end, saved you money, and also delivered better accuracy with zero issues? I know many who have not only had the latter, but also walked away with the same, or worse accuracy than before, and after labor and parts, about $800-$1000 lighter in the wallet.
 
Your glass is very likely to hold you back more than your rifle is. I know this sounds silly, but you can’t hit what you can’t see. If you can’t read your impacts, you don’t know if you’re connecting, or how to adjust your hold. The 6.5CM is more than capable of making hits at 1mile, I’ve done it. I’m shooting an A.I. With a 26” barrel. Made the hits shooting Hornady 147 ELD-M.

I would seriously take your money and invest in glass, and MAYBE a barrel. In your post, you didn’t indicate what kind of rifle you are shooting, just the caliber. If it’s a Ruger Precision, Accurate Ordnance makes pre-fit barrels that are amazing. That’s just an IF, but there are many folks shooting those now. Invest in glass that will allow you to see a mile, call hits, or corrections, you’ll be well on your way.
 
Fenix Mike said:
What headaches are you referring to? What problems have you had with your Remington when shooting to 1 mile?

Out of curiosity, I know everyone seems to think barrels just drop right in with a pair of vice grips, duct tape and elbow grease, but have YOU ever personally had a barrel upgraded in your rifle that, in the end, saved you money, and also delivered better accuracy with zero issues? I know many who have not only had the latter, but also walked away with the same, or worse accuracy than before, and after labor and parts, about $800-$1000 lighter in the wallet.
Click to expand...

I’ personally have never really dealt with Remington. My first rifle was a 700 sps 308. It shot .75 moa at 100yds or so and was prior to me starting to reload. I have a friend who is a smith and it seems like he has a steady supply of work on the Remington 700 actions (extraction issues, scope rail holes, upgrade of barrels and action squaring). With the amount of after market support available in the shooting industry I could not recommend someone go with a factory 700 barreled action.

Barrels do just drop right in if you choose to go with a nut or a prefit. Every barrel I’ve ever installed whether it be on my savages, Tikka t3, surgeon 591 or bighorn TL3 has shot fantastic and gave me zero issues. I never fired the tikka barrel but from what I’ve read it would of probably shot fine. It was a lite model and I only wanted the action.

With a 1500 dollar allowance there are better options in my opinion.
 
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I second the crowd saying use what you have. If in the future the budget opens up, then build a true ELR rifle. Look hard at the 300 Norma Mag when you do.
 
Any 6:5 will do it.

for 1,000 a Rem 5R gen 2 in 300win will do it really well.
 
Of value is, it's easier to hit a smallish steel plate at a mile with a higher BC bullet going faster when there is wind. 99% of the time it's present and hitting with a 6.5Creed can get frustrating. I saw this exact thing happening recently.

Take a 28 Nosler with say a 197 SMK/.780G1BC going 3000 fps and those steel in the same conditions become easier, it can make the difference between wasting ammo with little success to reasonable success and feeling like you accomplished something that day.

And who's to say you won't want to shoot farther than a mile, that's where heavier higher BC bullets come into their own.

I agree that a good custom barrel and good load can make a huge difference, not always but the trend is there. The only thing worse than a stock rifle that doesn't shoot well is a custom rifle that doesn't shoot well, lol, but that is very rare. I've had zero custom rifles not shoot well and a bunch of factory rifles that shot okay at best and I'm talking about the normal standard fare.
 
I have *exactly* the same tack as the OP....building a 6.5 CM rifle on a Savage 10 FCP-SR action with a 24" barrel looking for a 1 mile rifle. What length barrel is the OP using? I'm pretty sure with good glass and some judicious hand loading I can hit at 1760 yards with my 24" Savage with maybe a bit of tweaking with a stock and better glass.

But I'm still experimenting at 100o yards and working up hand loads.

VooDoo
 
It's an acquired taste. Shoot subsonic .22LR 500 meters 1.5 moa steel. If you get stoked moveon.org.
 
Thank you for the responses so far. I didn't post my rifle because I've mentioned it in a couple of other threads and didn't want to get redundant.

I'm currently shooting a Howa 6.5 Creedmoor with the 26 inch barrel in a Bell and Carlson light tactical stock. Same scope i mentioned in OP. It's has 35 minutes of travel up and the 20 minute base.

I've been shooting the Norma 130 grain match loads and have been getting 0.75 to 0.8 moa groups all the way out to a thousand yards so far. Yesterday I ran the numbers on the 147 eld-m factory rounds that someone here mentioned. Shooter says they'll get to a mile in 66 minutes and still be right over supersonic. I ordered 3 boxes to try.
 
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If you don’t want to reload you could always re-barrel to the new 6.5 PRC. Hornady factory loaded ammo with the high BC 147 is running between 2900-3000 FPS. You should have no trouble with those ballistics and recoil is significantly less then the 300WM.
 
The real issue and main reason for stepping up to a big bore is spotting your impacts. Anybody can lob any bullet to a mile, but consistency and accuracy are what come into play at over a grand. Shooting a 6.5 at a mile without perfect conditions, or a nice dusty target area, get frustrating real quick.
 
skkeeter said:
The real issue and main reason for stepping up to a big bore is spotting your impacts. Anybody can lob any bullet to a mile, but consistency and accuracy are what come into play at over a grand. Shooting a 6.5 at a mile without perfect conditions, or a nice dusty target area, get frustrating real quick.
Click to expand...

^^ This

The fun evaporates quickly when you keep taking shots without impacts and have no idea where you are hitting. You need more than just a rifle that will "reach" to a mile. I fired shots with my 300 Norma that I got no data from. And that's a 230gr Berger Hybrid at 3000fps. It doesn't go subsonic till 2100 yards and carries 1000ftlbs of energy still at a mile. So there are multiple aspects to consider.

Or, you can just go out and flail away. Maybe you'll get a hit here and there and it will be fun for you.

But if you want consistency, don't try to get it with a budget rifle.
 
Apothus said:
Thank you for the responses so far. I didn't post my rifle because I've mentioned it in a couple of other threads and didn't want to get redundant.

I'm currently shooting a Howa 6.5 Creedmoor with the 26 inch barrel in a Bell and Carlson light tactical stock. Same scope i mentioned in OP. It's has 35 minutes of travel up and the 20 minute base.

I've been shooting the Norma 130 grain match loads and have been getting 0.75 to 0.8 moa groups all the way out to a thousand yards so far. Yesterday I ran the numbers on the 147 eld-m factory rounds that someone here mentioned. Shooter says they'll get to a mile in 66 minutes and still be right over supersonic. I ordered 3 boxes to try.
Click to expand...

it took me 23 mils to get there. I’m in Nevada, so I’m at 2000’ elevation. I was in a long range presision class, and we had been shooting progressively farther and farther. I REALLY got to wring out my rifle/scope/ammo that weekend. It was fantastic.

Please do keep us us updated on how the 147 shoots for you. I’m anxious to hear how you do.

 
Nothing wrong with HOWA , if you like it go with it and put a new barrel to your specs when $$$ allows it if the factory option disappoints . 300WM , 230 OTM BERGERS will not disappoint but a 1n9 twist would be best .
 
Good point.

The 10" twist is pretty good up to about the 208gr bullet. Above that the 9" twist will treat you better.
 
IF youre dead set on a new rifle, build a 7mm Rem Mag and call it done. The big 7mm's whoop any 6.5/30 Cal at long range. And youll still have plenty of factory ammo offerings.
 
Will a 6.5 get a bullet to a mile? Absolutely. But it really depends on your expectations as to what happens when it does. If you want any kind of decent groups and ability not to have the wind give you crazy horizontal spread, you will be very, very disappointed. Perhaps if your goal is to put half the rounds on a 2 ft piece of steel you will be happy.

To really perform at a mile you will want the 300WM or a 7mmRM. If you want to go further you really need to look to a 338. The last long range match I shot at, the 7s really got hard to hit with about the mile mark, the 300s made it to about 1800, and by 2K only the 338s were grouping on target. A little wind goes a long way when those bullets start slowing down.
 
You talked about being frustrated with a rifle because the rounds are dancing around the target. You will get more of that using the creedmoor for 1 mile. Sure it will make hits, the one guys said 4 out of10...... ..........
 
A factory 300WM would be a cost-effective way to get to 1 mile. Lots of other good suggestions also.
 
308220 said:
IF youre dead set on a new rifle, build a 7mm Rem Mag and call it done. The big 7mm's whoop any 6.5/30 Cal at long range. And youll still have plenty of factory ammo offerings.
Click to expand...

7RM is a great cartridge for LR, but there's no way it can "whoop" a 300NM.
 
vh20 said:
7RM is a great cartridge for LR, but there's no way it can "whoop" a 300NM.
Click to expand...


I said "the big 7mm's". Meaning a 28 Nosler/7mm RUM/7mm STW etc etc....not just a 7mm RM..
 
If you shoot the Warner Tool Flatline bullets then just about anything can be a "mile gun" and still remain supersonic.

My 308 Win slings the 198 at 2780fps and it stays supersonic and point-on point past a mile at sea level. Low recoil, low powder burn, low overall expense per round when compared to the true cost of shooting a large caliber with traditional bullets.
 
I've looked at the Warner Flat line bullets and they look amazing, something I definitely want to try. Is there a published BC for the 6.5 bullets yet? I've searched several places and the only graphs I could find had data for all but the 6.5.

As far as expectations go, I think that needs to be defined as hopeful vs realistic. Someone made a comment about lobbing rounds out there at a 2 foot piece of steel hoping to make hits. 24 inches at a mile is like 1.4 moa. That's not a large target compared to the barn doors I've seen some people hang out there. My steel I shoot is 15 inches wide by 20 tall, man sized. If I can hit that 3 times in a row and 8 to 10 times out of 20 you bet I'll be happy. I'd venture a guess and say most guys would.

I have one more question and it's not a slam, it's an honest question. I'm goal oriented so this will help set goals. For those with the super nice custom guns, the expectation is a half minute or better. That's 8 inches at a mile. Can that really be expected to be shot consistently?
 
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