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Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what grain bullets to look into shooting ?
what twist barrel to buy ?
how far is it worth pushing the 223 round ? </div></div>
Get yourself an 8-twist barrel. You can push the 80 gr JLK's to 1000 yards easy. Learn how to read the wind.
Cheap loading for the .223 Bolt Gun:
-LC Brass from Natchez $220/2K
-Hornady 75 gr AMAX Bullets 600pc bulk packs from Powder Valley for $98
-Ramshot TAC Powder
-Wolf SR Magnum primers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what grain bullets to look into shooting ?
what twist barrel to buy ?
how far is it worth pushing the 223 round ? </div></div>
Get yourself an 8-twist barrel. You can push the 80 gr JLK's to 1000 yards easy. Learn how to read the wind.
Cheap loading for the .223 Bolt Gun:
-LC Brass from Natchez $220/2K
-Hornady 75 gr AMAX Bullets 600pc bulk packs from Powder Valley for $98
-Ramshot TAC Powder
-Wolf SR Magnum primers
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
A couple things first before anyone can really answer your question reliably.
1. the first question will depend upon what you wish to accomplish with the rifle. for example, do you want to shoot relatively long range with it, shoot varmints with it, only shoot out to 300 yards with it? etc. What you want to do will determine what weight bullet you need.
2. the twist needed will depend on what bullets you choose to use. a 1-9" twist will usually reliably stabilize bullets up to 69grs. sometimes they will stabilize 75's but thats pushing it. a 1-8 or 1-7 will stabilize the heavier, longer bullets, like the vlds. and slower twists like 1-12 will only stabilize the lighter bullets.
3. well your third question depends on if you want very consistent hits or not. I have pushed my .223 with 69gr smks to 1000 yards. granted I had a heck of a time trying to hit a 12" square plate but I was getting close and even if I did hit it, the ding was pretty faint if not almost non-existent and the plate was already slightly swaying because of the wind. But nonetheless it was tons of fun and a great learning experience.
I could consistently hit the same size plate at 600 and for the most part 700 yards. there weren't any 800 or 900 yard plates so I couldn't try those distances. 600 seems to be a pretty good max distance for standard (up to 69gr) bullets to hit accurately and around 800-900 they start going sub sonic. I hope this gives you some helpful information and insight on the .223.
A couple things first before anyone can really answer your question reliably.
1. the first question will depend upon what you wish to accomplish with the rifle. for example, do you want to shoot relatively long range with it, shoot varmints with it, only shoot out to 300 yards with it? etc. What you want to do will determine what weight bullet you need.
2. the twist needed will depend on what bullets you choose to use. a 1-9" twist will usually reliably stabilize bullets up to 69grs. sometimes they will stabilize 75's but thats pushing it. a 1-8 or 1-7 will stabilize the heavier, longer bullets, like the vlds. and slower twists like 1-12 will only stabilize the lighter bullets.
3. well your third question depends on if you want very consistent hits or not. I have pushed my .223 with 69gr smks to 1000 yards. granted I had a heck of a time trying to hit a 12" square plate but I was getting close and even if I did hit it, the ding was pretty faint if not almost non-existent and the plate was already slightly swaying because of the wind. But nonetheless it was tons of fun and a great learning experience.
I could consistently hit the same size plate at 600 and for the most part 700 yards. there weren't any 800 or 900 yard plates so I couldn't try those distances. 600 seems to be a pretty good max distance for standard (up to 69gr) bullets to hit accurately and around 800-900 they start going sub sonic. I hope this gives you some helpful information and insight on the .223.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">75+
7 or 8 twist
1k </div></div> i agree with this.
Mine is a Remington 700 trued and all that, 16.25 in fluted lilja barrel, tuned remmy trigger, Maners MCS-T stock 90% CF.
I shoot molly coated 75 Amax's right now and can hit at 1000 with it on a good day.
500m is what i normally shoot and it's real easy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">75+
7 or 8 twist
1k </div></div> i agree with this.
Mine is a Remington 700 trued and all that, 16.25 in fluted lilja barrel, tuned remmy trigger, Maners MCS-T stock 90% CF.
I shoot molly coated 75 Amax's right now and can hit at 1000 with it on a good day.
500m is what i normally shoot and it's real easy.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
Cheaper is relative. How much are you likely to spend on this new gun when all said and done? What do you shoot/reload now?
Cheaper is relative. How much are you likely to spend on this new gun when all said and done? What do you shoot/reload now?
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
I would at least go with a 1/9, so I could shoot 69 grainers. If I was building it from the ground up? I would build it with a 1/6 with that you can say hello to 90 grain and 1k yrds.
I would at least go with a 1/9, so I could shoot 69 grainers. If I was building it from the ground up? I would build it with a 1/6 with that you can say hello to 90 grain and 1k yrds.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheaper is relative. How much are you likely to spend on this new gun when all said and done? What do you shoot/reload now? </div></div>
Exactly. Of course everyone needs an excuse for a new gun and cheaper isn't really cheaper when you factor in the build cost versus the component cost between the 2 rifles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheaper is relative. How much are you likely to spend on this new gun when all said and done? What do you shoot/reload now? </div></div>
Exactly. Of course everyone needs an excuse for a new gun and cheaper isn't really cheaper when you factor in the build cost versus the component cost between the 2 rifles.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
I have been doing pretty well with the stock SPS with a 1/9" bbl and 69 SMK/Nos CC's. Making neat little bug holes at 100 and ringing steel with little effort at 500. Haven't played on the 800 yard steel yet.
I have been doing pretty well with the stock SPS with a 1/9" bbl and 69 SMK/Nos CC's. Making neat little bug holes at 100 and ringing steel with little effort at 500. Haven't played on the 800 yard steel yet.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
i just got this one together a couple months ago and it's a lot of fun.
Goal was a good shooting lower dollar .223 mostly to just play with.
Went with a 20" 1 in 7 twist Mcgowen prefit barrel. Didn't expect it to shoot the 55gr v max but tried a box of factory hornady loads and they went to 300yds great (300 yd is the farthest i've got to shoot it).
Put it together for 75 gr+ stuff and have been running 75gr Amax and HPBT.
i just got this one together a couple months ago and it's a lot of fun.
Goal was a good shooting lower dollar .223 mostly to just play with.
Went with a 20" 1 in 7 twist Mcgowen prefit barrel. Didn't expect it to shoot the 55gr v max but tried a box of factory hornady loads and they went to 300yds great (300 yd is the farthest i've got to shoot it).
Put it together for 75 gr+ stuff and have been running 75gr Amax and HPBT.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
most shooting will be 600 yards and under might try pushing it farther but then i would just pull out the heavy hitter's
i know it would cost a little more to build a rifle then to just shoot my 338 but after i a while ill save a little bit plus have sweet new rifle.
I was thinking maybe 1/7 twist for 69- 80 grains
Yea im building it but not looking to go AI trying to go cheaper/easiest and maybe shoot store ammo if im out of state
most shooting will be 600 yards and under might try pushing it farther but then i would just pull out the heavy hitter's
i know it would cost a little more to build a rifle then to just shoot my 338 but after i a while ill save a little bit plus have sweet new rifle.
I was thinking maybe 1/7 twist for 69- 80 grains
Yea im building it but not looking to go AI trying to go cheaper/easiest and maybe shoot store ammo if im out of state
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">most shooting will be 600 yards and under might try pushing it farther but then i would just pull out the heavy hitter's
i know it would cost a little more to build a rifle then to just shoot my 338 but after i a while ill save a little bit plus have sweet new rifle.
I was thinking maybe 1/7 twist for 69- 80 grains
Yea im building it but not looking to go AI trying to go cheaper/easiest and maybe shoot store ammo if im out of state </div></div>
None of those restrictions really exclude the Ackley. You can do all of the above with an Ackley and still have the flexibility to load for extra velocity if the need arises or you are so inclined. 223AI is an outstanding round.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">most shooting will be 600 yards and under might try pushing it farther but then i would just pull out the heavy hitter's
i know it would cost a little more to build a rifle then to just shoot my 338 but after i a while ill save a little bit plus have sweet new rifle.
I was thinking maybe 1/7 twist for 69- 80 grains
Yea im building it but not looking to go AI trying to go cheaper/easiest and maybe shoot store ammo if im out of state </div></div>
None of those restrictions really exclude the Ackley. You can do all of the above with an Ackley and still have the flexibility to load for extra velocity if the need arises or you are so inclined. 223AI is an outstanding round.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">most shooting will be 600 yards and under might try pushing it farther but then i would just pull out the heavy hitter's
i know it would cost a little more to build a rifle then to just shoot my 338 but after i a while ill save a little bit plus have sweet new rifle.
I was thinking maybe 1/7 twist for 69- 80 grains
Yea im building it but not looking to go AI trying to go cheaper/easiest and maybe shoot store ammo if im out of state </div></div>
No problems shooting store bought .223 out of an AI. Only difference you'll notice is your newly formed AI case.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">most shooting will be 600 yards and under might try pushing it farther but then i would just pull out the heavy hitter's
i know it would cost a little more to build a rifle then to just shoot my 338 but after i a while ill save a little bit plus have sweet new rifle.
I was thinking maybe 1/7 twist for 69- 80 grains
Yea im building it but not looking to go AI trying to go cheaper/easiest and maybe shoot store ammo if im out of state </div></div>
No problems shooting store bought .223 out of an AI. Only difference you'll notice is your newly formed AI case.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
My 9 twist 26" Savage shoots the 75gr HPBT quite well.
My 9 twist 26" Savage shoots the 75gr HPBT quite well.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">most shooting will be 600 yards and under might try pushing it farther but then i would just pull out the heavy hitter's
i know it would cost a little more to build a rifle then to just shoot my 338 but after i a while ill save a little bit plus have sweet new rifle.
I was thinking maybe 1/7 twist for 69- 80 grains
Yea im building it but not looking to go AI trying to go cheaper/easiest and maybe shoot store ammo if im out of state </div></div>
No problems shooting store bought .223 out of an AI. Only difference you'll notice is your newly formed AI case. </div></div>
what makes the AI better other then little more speed ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">most shooting will be 600 yards and under might try pushing it farther but then i would just pull out the heavy hitter's
i know it would cost a little more to build a rifle then to just shoot my 338 but after i a while ill save a little bit plus have sweet new rifle.
I was thinking maybe 1/7 twist for 69- 80 grains
Yea im building it but not looking to go AI trying to go cheaper/easiest and maybe shoot store ammo if im out of state </div></div>
No problems shooting store bought .223 out of an AI. Only difference you'll notice is your newly formed AI case. </div></div>
what makes the AI better other then little more speed ?
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
I have a 1/7 twist on my Rem bolt gun,the 80's shoot great at 600 . Components are cheaper,use less powder,recoil is nothing. It's a win win proposition.
I have a 1/7 twist on my Rem bolt gun,the 80's shoot great at 600 . Components are cheaper,use less powder,recoil is nothing. It's a win win proposition.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAGUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 1/7 twist on my Rem bolt gun,the 80's shoot great at 600 . Components are cheaper,use less powder,recoil is nothing. It's a win win proposition. </div></div>
so with a 1/7 twist whats the lightest bullet you can shoot?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAGUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 1/7 twist on my Rem bolt gun,the 80's shoot great at 600 . Components are cheaper,use less powder,recoil is nothing. It's a win win proposition. </div></div>
so with a 1/7 twist whats the lightest bullet you can shoot?
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
It all depends on how fast you push them. I have launched 45g from my 7 twist and they have made it to the target. But I am not trying to break any speed records with it either.
I will advise you not to go slower than 8 twist if you want to push most of the 80g bullets out there. I have not tried 90's through my 7 twist yet so I can’t say it will work with those but from everything I have read on them the increase in BC is not worth the loss in velocity that generally comes with it... unless you have a very long barrel and special chamber cut just for the 90's.
It all depends on how fast you push them. I have launched 45g from my 7 twist and they have made it to the target. But I am not trying to break any speed records with it either.
I will advise you not to go slower than 8 twist if you want to push most of the 80g bullets out there. I have not tried 90's through my 7 twist yet so I can’t say it will work with those but from everything I have read on them the increase in BC is not worth the loss in velocity that generally comes with it... unless you have a very long barrel and special chamber cut just for the 90's.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
With a 223AI, what's the difference in a 1x7 and 1x8 barrel? Does one really work better with heavier bullets versus the lighter stuff?
TIA,
Sid
p.s. I would be looking at 62gr on the light side and 77-80gr on the heavy side which would make a 1x8 best, right?
With a 223AI, what's the difference in a 1x7 and 1x8 barrel? Does one really work better with heavier bullets versus the lighter stuff?
TIA,
Sid
p.s. I would be looking at 62gr on the light side and 77-80gr on the heavy side which would make a 1x8 best, right?
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAGUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 1/7 twist on my Rem bolt gun,the 80's shoot great at 600 . Components are cheaper,use less powder,recoil is nothing. It's a win win proposition. </div></div>
so with a 1/7 twist whats the lightest bullet you can shoot? </div></div>
I have shot 52gr hpbt's @ 100 yds and i was drilling one hole with them .I was surprised they shot that well out of my rifle due to the fact that my chamber was set up for the heavier longer 80 gr bullets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAGUA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 1/7 twist on my Rem bolt gun,the 80's shoot great at 600 . Components are cheaper,use less powder,recoil is nothing. It's a win win proposition. </div></div>
so with a 1/7 twist whats the lightest bullet you can shoot? </div></div>
I have shot 52gr hpbt's @ 100 yds and i was drilling one hole with them .I was surprised they shot that well out of my rifle due to the fact that my chamber was set up for the heavier longer 80 gr bullets.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
The only reason not to do a 223AI is if you'll want to keep the brass available for a straight 223 in the future. With 223 brass as cheap as it is, this doesnt seem like an important factor to me.
The only reason not to do a 223AI is if you'll want to keep the brass available for a straight 223 in the future. With 223 brass as cheap as it is, this doesnt seem like an important factor to me.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid Post</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With a 223AI, what's the difference in a 1x7 and 1x8 barrel? Does one really work better with heavier bullets versus the lighter stuff?
TIA,
Sid
p.s. I would be looking at 62gr on the light side and 77-80gr on the heavy side which would make a 1x8 best, right? </div></div>
I've 7,8,9,10,12 and 14's in 223AI. 8" is where it's at.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid Post</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With a 223AI, what's the difference in a 1x7 and 1x8 barrel? Does one really work better with heavier bullets versus the lighter stuff?
TIA,
Sid
p.s. I would be looking at 62gr on the light side and 77-80gr on the heavy side which would make a 1x8 best, right? </div></div>
I've 7,8,9,10,12 and 14's in 223AI. 8" is where it's at.
Re: building a 223 rifle to shoot cheaper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm building mine with a 7 twist. 7 twist is where its at! I didn't go with the AI either but, I did opt for a 26" tube. </div></div>
I agree, an 8t should work but the longest 80 grainers are right at the edge of instability depending on your DA and velocity. It would be far better to have a little faster twist than end up with an under twist if your wish is to shoot out long with the high bc slugs.
The 80 amax are the cheapest option with high bc when bought in bulk but right at the edge when launched at 2800ish from a 223 (non AI) 8 twist. Not saying it won’t work just too close for comfort when you are choosing your barrel specs. I am getting 2790 with a 223 match chamber 7 twist and a rock creek barrel 21.75” throated for A-max and this combo just beats my 308, 175 smk load in elevation and matches it in the wind at 1k.
Now the down side… It is very difficult to hear impacts at 700+ yards and even harder to see impacts unless you have some seriously good glass. But the up side is its just about 1/3 the price of shooting 308’s.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm building mine with a 7 twist. 7 twist is where its at! I didn't go with the AI either but, I did opt for a 26" tube. </div></div>
I agree, an 8t should work but the longest 80 grainers are right at the edge of instability depending on your DA and velocity. It would be far better to have a little faster twist than end up with an under twist if your wish is to shoot out long with the high bc slugs.
The 80 amax are the cheapest option with high bc when bought in bulk but right at the edge when launched at 2800ish from a 223 (non AI) 8 twist. Not saying it won’t work just too close for comfort when you are choosing your barrel specs. I am getting 2790 with a 223 match chamber 7 twist and a rock creek barrel 21.75” throated for A-max and this combo just beats my 308, 175 smk load in elevation and matches it in the wind at 1k.
Now the down side… It is very difficult to hear impacts at 700+ yards and even harder to see impacts unless you have some seriously good glass. But the up side is its just about 1/3 the price of shooting 308’s.
