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Bullet design info

F

FredR

Private
Minuteman
Dec 30, 2009
4
0
41
First of all, Hi to all of us.

I'm new on this forum but I've been reading threads for quite a few weeks now.

I'm really interested in ballistic and bullet design. Unfortunately, I haven't found much info on how to make good extreme long range bullets (I want to do some research and development on those bullets).

if any of you can give me some ideas on witch book to buy (if any exist) or refer me to a good site, I would be more than happy.

thanks to you all.

by the way, I'm from Canada
 
Re: Bullet design info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: treebasher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is another page with lots of useful info:

http://www.saxtech.eu/English/index.html </div></div>

thanks a lot... I've been looking for this site for a long time now
 
Re: Bullet design info

Fred;

Before you get deeply invested, maybe it would pay to simply ask here about what you want to know. It would help to know what purpose you'll be putting the information to work doing.

Many of us have already done the studying you intend, and after weeding our way through lots of info, have found that mostly, it boils down to some relatively simple and obvious answers.

First lesson; there are no revolutionary discoveries waiting to be made about bullet design. It's all been tried, over and over.

Second lesson; the higher the BC number, the velocity retention is better, delivering more energy downrange in less time, resulting in less drop and wind deflection.

BC is BC, regardless of caliber, and a given BC in one bullet caliber will deliver the same trajectory in another bullet of the same BC, different caliber, as long as they both depart the firearm at the same valocity.

Commercial bullet production is about developing economical ways of rendering consistency. The major shape determination is less critical than developing those construction methods. There's a reason why there are a few larger producers who deal in large volumes, and virtually no medium sized ones. You have to make an awful lot of bullets to break even. One guy isn't going to be able to do that.

If you want to learn how to choose them, the producers provide pretty much all the info you need in order to make those choices. Independent research is pretty much redundant.

Just trying to save you time and money.

Greg
 
Re: Bullet design info

Greg,

The general proposition that everything has "been tried over and over", is true enough... but it really misses the point relative to not only projectile design, but every other object that has ever been manufactured. The same mechanical principles which go into building a late 18th century steam wagon are used in designing a formula one racer.

The interesting developments happen in refinement, and recombination, of design details drawn from the same essential knowledge base.

Relative to projectile design specifically, you are going to see some "revolutionary" products, produced by at least two domestic manufacturers, that I know of, on a very large, and cost effective, scale this year.

Follow-on products such as new cartridge cases, and barrels, will follow thereafter. Once again, the design principles are not new, but the level of performance clearly will be.
 
Re: Bullet design info

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Greg,

The general proposition that everything has "been tried over and over", is true enough... but it really misses the point relative to not only projectile design, but every other object that has ever been manufactured. The same mechanical principles which go into building a late 18th century steam wagon are used in designing a formula one racer.

The interesting developments happen in refinement, and recombination, of design details drawn from the same essential knowledge base.

Relative to projectile design specifically, you are going to see some "revolutionary" products, produced by at least two domestic manufacturers, that I know of, on a very large, and cost effective, scale this year.

Follow-on products such as new cartridge cases, and barrels, will follow thereafter. Once again, the design principles are not new, but the level of performance clearly will be.



</div></div>
Noel,
Can you give us a hint as to what these new products are?
 
Re: Bullet design info

Wadcutter,

I had relatively recent communication with a competitor indicating that precision turned, banded copper solids, will soon be available in catalogues at very reasonable prices. We both share an interest in seeing the widest possible application/distribution for this class of bullet, and are doing everything possible to utilize the economies of scale in facilitating that goal.

Regarding design developments; in the course of refining the configuration of the ZA338/6.0, and ZA375/6.0, for an optimized form factor, an interesting outcome of the 338 "Hunt" variant materialized. In order to guarantee reliable nose fragmentation upon impact, a pure plastic densified tungsten powder core was incorporated as a replacement for bonded tin/bismuth. A net mass gain of ~13% over solid copper was easily obtained, and this is a welcome boost to the already superb BC of it's predecessor (the latest 268 grain 338 solid surpasssed the 300 grain Lapua at 1,400 yards this summer).

We now have a magazine compatable 338 projectile, in a Norma Magnum loading, which also stabilizes in a 1: 10" twist barrel. It is the best of all possible performance combinations. The same feature will find place in the ZA375/6.0 based strictly on the BC advantage.

Cartridge case, and barrel innovations focus on higher operating temperature/pressure specifications, with much greater service life, an lower total system weight. Beyond that, details will have to wait.

Best,
Noel
 
Re: Bullet design info

Thanks Greg for asking those questions.

My main goal is really simple: To know exactly what is going on on every aspect of shooting + maybe be able to do my own high BC target and hunting bullets.

As you know, there's no rifle that perform the same (harmonics when fired) and it could be real fun to fine tune the bullet for that rifle.

I have background in mechanical engineering and industrial design as well and I know that comprehension is key to achieve good results in everything...

It will also help me choose what cal. I want or is best suited for my needs.

all your inputs are really appreciated. Thanks
 
Re: Bullet design info

Hello Jason,

The field ATF inspector has already visited, and tells me she is simply waiting for paperwork to come back to her from the central office.

Provided I do not move the shop, things should be good to go in the next month or so.
 
Re: Bullet design info

Interesting info, Noel. I have long imagined that modern polymer technology would find a useful place in the ammunition marketplace. Powdered metals and polymer resins do seem like an excellent material for core fabrication. I also suspect that we could find the modern materials finding their ways into other components, too.

Greg
 
Re: Bullet design info

Greg,

I think my description; "plastic densified tungsten", misled you somewhat.

Tungsten powder is used in a number of both metal, and polymer (Torlon), mixtures in fabricating bullets... mostly to address environmental concerns asssociated with lead.

In this case the particle size grading, and shape, of the pure tungsten (sans polymer) permit it to be compressed in a way which creates a semi-solid. Upon impact, this material simply returns to it's pre-densification state in a non-toxic cloud of tungsten dust.
 
Re: Bullet design info

So the term 'plastic' refers to a physical state, rather then a polymer composition. Much thanks for the clarification.

I have also wondered about fine powder made from whatever is involved in making hevi shot. Density and environmental concerns being dealt with in a single solution.

I have some Bismuth in both needle and small (shot-like) globular form, which I use for ballasting models, etc. If it wasn't for what it does to bullet molds, I might give it more respect for use as a core material.

Again, thanks for your time and info.

Greg
 
Re: Bullet design info

Greg, I have great experience in this area, in both solid and powdered form, including military testing. If there is anything I can help you with, just let me know. Hope I can shed some light on the subject.

-Anthony
 
Re: Bullet design info

Extremist,

Helping someone out with the use of tungsten, in "solid" form, is likely to cause all sorts of inconvenience with the ATF.
 
Re: Bullet design info

Noel, I did mention I work under military contract, but besides that, I am very familiar with the ATF. And I am a US Navy Firearms technition and Ballisticion. They do, and I do, make commercial tungsten solids. I guess what I am getting at is that I was trying to help. And Noel, good luck with your bullets, and God bless.

-Anthony
 
Re: Bullet design info

I had just got Bryan's book not to long ago and am about half way through it now. I must say it is a very informative read! Its an investment in my opinion if you are truely interested in long range shooting.

Hykin,C
 
Re: Bullet design info

Thanks guys, but my interest in these matters is purely academic. I do not, probably never will, have the resources to do such things genuine justice.

Greg
 
Re: Bullet design info

greg,...take a look at the CORBIN swage tooling pages. The have tooling and supplies to make frangible tungsten and copper cores. I believe they have stopped the supply of atomised tungsten for the moment due to high prices? Check the web pages for details,..its a custom bullet makers paradise.
 
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