I like both reticles but have never shot behind either one. I can get both for around same price. What is the consensus around here between the two. TIA.
Rifle Scopes Burris XTR 3 vs Bushy XRS 2
- Thread starter sanpedroranch
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I was in your shoes. Went with Bushy because it had been out longer/appeared more proven. The deal GA Precision had with the Kestrel and the scope was too good to pass up for me.
I really enjoy this XRS II, more so than my Gen 2 Razor.
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...r2-for-a-steal-on-midway.7028830/post-8941013
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/team-rcbs-bushnell-introduction.7019655/post-8992758
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...l-hdmr-ii-cr-close-range.7035540/post-8986680
Put these together and I get they're being discontinued (no new stock) with a replacement coming next year.
Biggest differences seem to be 56mm vs 50mm, scr2 vs H59.
Or the SCR in the Burris and G3 or Tremor3 in the Bushnell.
I've looked through both of these scopes, but I've not had them side by side.
I do like the Bushnell. Ive always been surprised that more people didn't use it in PRS. The Burris is tough to beat in ease of use. The eyebox is very forgiving, its depth of field and parallax are very ease to set and forget, and the field of view is the best short of the 3k March scope.
I've compared it to a lot of optics, and the MK5 is the only one I've seen so far that is as good in low light. The brightness of the optic is impressive.
SCR2 > H59. I used an H59 for 3 years, the SCR2 is better in a multitude of ways.
At some point it will catch on how nice an optic the XTR3 is. I see so much chatter about the Cronus, or Trijicon or insert any other Japanese LOW scope in here, and I just scratch my head. The Burris is made right here in the US and its a nicer scope.
I do like the Bushnell. Ive always been surprised that more people didn't use it in PRS. The Burris is tough to beat in ease of use. The eyebox is very forgiving, its depth of field and parallax are very ease to set and forget, and the field of view is the best short of the 3k March scope.
I've compared it to a lot of optics, and the MK5 is the only one I've seen so far that is as good in low light. The brightness of the optic is impressive.
SCR2 > H59. I used an H59 for 3 years, the SCR2 is better in a multitude of ways.
At some point it will catch on how nice an optic the XTR3 is. I see so much chatter about the Cronus, or Trijicon or insert any other Japanese LOW scope in here, and I just scratch my head. The Burris is made right here in the US and its a nicer scope.
^How fine is the SCR2 at different magnifications? Can you compare to some others in the normal consideration set? And finally an apples to oranges comparo... is it as fine as the S&B LRR?
I've owned both. I'd buy the XTR3 again before the XRS2.
I'm surprised the XTR3 hasn't taken off as it is a beautifully executed scope. Great mag range, optically very nice, great feeling turrets, made in USA. Only downside is the lack of illumination which isn't a feature I use enough to be an issue. The Burris punches above its price class but LOTS of competition in the price range.
Speaking of XTR3 illumination. Any news on that coming soon ?
2021 was the last update. I thought we would see it at Shot, but of course its been canceled.
I actually need to chat with the guys in Greeley next week. I'll see if I can get an update.
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the S&B reticle.
The SCR2 is a thinner competition oriented reticle. I find it useable down all magnification ranges. But the grid itself is too fine to use below about 8x. For me, at magnifications below 8x, I dont need a grid anyway. I just need a crosshair.
Sounds good, thanks - my eyesight is still good and most ffp reticles seem thick at higher mag. I'm going to order a few scopes to compare (and keep one or two) - was going to be S&B and March HM only, but think I will include this one as well. I have some LOW scopes already, and wanted to experience the "alpha" stuff to compare. If they don't immediately elicit a "wow", they'll be going back and perhaps I'll keep the XTR3.
So any new info on illuminated reticle and is there a hide vendor that I can purchase one of these from? illum is not a deal breaker but if its coming out tomorrow......
I’ve only had the LRR-Mil in the Schmidt 5-45. I’ve had the SCR2 in both the 3.3-18 and 5.5-30 and I can say I like the SCR2 in the 5.5-30, it seems “thicker” and more usable even at lower mags. Compared to the LRR-Mil in the 5-45, the SCR2 in the 5.5-30 is “better” because it’s thicker and easier to pick up in low light and/or high contrast situations, keep in mind this is personal preference and based on my observations.
I think the reason the XTR III has not caught on is because of the lack of illumination, Burris dropped the ball on that one. The SCR2 reticle in the 3.3-18 is also very thin and not ideal IMO. Once Burris offers illumination and thickens up the SCR2 in the 3.3-18 we will start hearing a lot more chatter about these scopes. Until that happens they remain a hidden gem for those who do not care about illumination.
^Thanks, I bought one a while back now and do like it a lot. Have a Mark 5HD PR2 incoming this week to compare. Would've liked a S&B with MSR2, but learned about the tariff and Eurooptic's exclusive contract with them, adding 2-3K to the prices. Would go ZCO or TT before that.
Check with Scott at Liberty Optics
I agree with Bill on the illumination. They REALLY need to get it to market.
And I have to add, I shot a regional club match yesterday with 55 guys in attendance and plunked my 30x XTR3 down next to some Luepy MK5 guys (they asked, not me) to say they were surprised at the comparison is putting it mildly. I think I sold a scope or two yesterday.
And I have to add, I shot a regional club match yesterday with 55 guys in attendance and plunked my 30x XTR3 down next to some Luepy MK5 guys (they asked, not me) to say they were surprised at the comparison is putting it mildly. I think I sold a scope or two yesterday.
I have been eyeballing the PR2 Mark 5 as im looking for a mid priced optic, the only thing that worries me is will the Leupold hold up and track... I have read in different places of Leopold tracking issues in the past, not so sure about the Mark 5. It almost makes me wanna get another one of the porker Razor gen 2's because I just feel like I can trust them more as I've owned them in the past... Also have some interest in the XTR III 30X.I agree with Bill on the illumination. They REALLY need to get it to market.
And I have to add, I shot a regional club match yesterday with 55 guys in attendance and plunked my 30x XTR3 down next to some Luepy MK5 guys (they asked, not me) to say they were surprised at the comparison is putting it mildly. I think I sold a scope or two yesterday.
I agree with Bill on the illumination. They REALLY need to get it to market.
And I have to add, I shot a regional club match yesterday with 55 guys in attendance and plunked my 30x XTR3 down next to some Luepy MK5 guys (they asked, not me) to say they were surprised at the comparison is putting it mildly. I think I sold a scope or two yesterday.
Your comments also pushed me over the line to buy one last year... but I jumped at the non-illuminated version in order to get the thinner reticle. That was a major differentiating characteristic / selling point for me.
Do you know how much crossover there is with Burris and Steiner? Can you compare the M7xi to the XTR3? I really like the MSR2 reticle...
Burris has always taken the position that the first release XTR3 is the competition version. Thus the thin SCR2 reticle, which I will admit, performs exactly as intended for competitive use. I also really like the thin SCR2. Its perfect for my usage, but I get it that the vast majority of scope buyers want a more "do it all" type reticle. So the thicker illuminated version can't get here soon enough..
Surprisingly, there is little to no crossover on product between Burris and Steiner. Shortly after the XTRII released, Steiner was acquired and the XTRII was revamped from 8 to 10 mil turrets, and the SCR reticle, which belonged to Steiner, was incorporated into the model. But thats the only ocassion I can think of where one brand clearly influenced the other. I imagine there are more subtle influences.
They operate as a sister company, sharing the same facility, and at higher levels, there are Burris/Steiner employees. Its more cost effective. But from what I can see, product crossover is thin to none.
I've never compared to the M7Xi, which I've heard is a very nice optic. I know @D_TROS has one or several. Perhaps he will see the tag and chime in.
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I'm hanging out for the thicker SCR2 reticle for competition purposes.
Based on the few reviews that are out there I don't see why the reticle is so thin in the 3.3-18 model, when you are limited to 18x magnification having a super thin reticle the same as the 5.5-30 seems crazy to me.
I know Burris isn't the only company that does this but I see no good reason why it's become the norm and can see lots of good reasons to make the reticle thicker in the lower magnification models. It makes it feel like the lower mag models are an after thought.
I just looked at the line thickness... it's .02 mil thick? I can see a lot of people holding out for the thicker illuminated version if that's the case.
Is there any information about the line thickness of the new illuminated scopes? The MSR 2 .04 line thickness is perfect in my opinion.
The last time I discussed this with someone in Greeley, it looked like they were going to use the same line thickness as the SCR. Which is .035 in the 30x, .05 in the 18x, so its optimized.
That reticle takes illumination well, and for the life of me, I can't recall ever hearing anyone complain about it. So no point in reinventing the wheel. All my hunting scopes have the SCR, and its pretty much ideal.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, the illuminated prototypes have been out and getting bounced around for while. I have spoken to two people who have gotten to play with it, and they're pretty excited with how it turned out. I'm pretty sure all that needs to happen now is they just need to start producing them.
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Nice, maybe they'll be available this year?
I hope Ilya gets one. He said he was waiting for an illuminated version of the XTR III before he reviewed one.
Just looking through the Mark 5 pr2 for the first time side by side w/ XTR3 30 and Trij/Delta 5-50. Up to 3700 yards in sun, haze, medium mirage. IQ really close between Trij and Mk5, with edge to Mk5 in these conditions. Trij with less contrast but neither with better resolution. Mirage they tie, both cut through really well. XTR3 trails behind both scopes in resolution and mirage, but has the big FOV, which can be perceived as IQ on first glance. Compared to the NX8 I returned, all 3 are at least a step above. Mark 5 is also only 30 oz, so a legitimate competitor to the NX8 in weight, but blowing it away in IQ dept. Will post more as impressions develop / and certainly if they change.
Sorry I have to change this for apples:apples - was looking at XTR3 and Trij at 30X with Mark5 @ 25X
With all 3 at 25X, resolution XTR3=Mk5 and Trij a bit ahead of both, but the contrast of the Mk5 still a bit better than Trij, image less washed out...
Sorry I have to change this for apples:apples - was looking at XTR3 and Trij at 30X with Mark5 @ 25X
With all 3 at 25X, resolution XTR3=Mk5 and Trij a bit ahead of both, but the contrast of the Mk5 still a bit better than Trij, image less washed out...
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I'm sure my opinion holds very little weight to the folks in Greeley, but those line thickness sound perfect (more or less).
Could maybe go to .06 on the 3.3-18 but .05 would be sweet.
If it's the same .035 in the 3.3-18 I'll be most displeased.
Which NX8 did you return? -20 or -32?
4-32 - honestly, the XTR3 is the better option. Leupold if you don't mind less FOV, but it's an extra 2mils plus @ 25X - big difference. XTR3 is 32 oz.
I like the Mark 5 but doesn’t parallax down far enough.. I was looking at the XTR 3, NX8 and the Tract has peaked my interest lately..The resale on the XTR worries me some if I don’t like it.
From everything I've tried, they're all splitting hairs with IQ, from the Chinese Ares ETR to the Razor G2 and XTR3 and every LOW scope I've looked through. I said screw it and ordered a ZCO to finally see the light 
I have to somewhat agree, anything above $1000 has glass that is more than capable for what most people use their rifles for.From everything I've tried, they're all splitting hairs with IQ, from the Chinese Ares ETR to the Razor G2 and XTR3 and every LOW scope I've looked through. I said screw it and ordered a ZCO to finally see the light
Above $1000 I'm more concerned about reticle, turret features and other features.
I have a Delta Stryker which I 95% love, turrets, glass etc, but the narrow FOV and aparent FOV really bug me.
The huge FOV on the XTR3 is what appeals to me but I'm not keen on super fine reticles as I like to use my scopes on fairly low magnification when practical.
^Yes, this is completely unnecessary for me - but a very interesting and enjoyable hobby. 3D billiards at a mile.
I had a good conversation with the Burris brand sales manager today. I was actually trying to get my hands on one of the prototypes to play with it. But these aren't apparently a full scope in the manner that they prototyped the XTR3 when it was under development. These are more basic just to test the illumination and switch.
But I did find out the goal is to have the illuminated versions on the market this summer. I'm sure they want them out before hunting season. The official thickness of the new reticle is, and I quote," its a smidge thicker "
And I got on the list to get one out of the first batch release. So I'll be able to drop a teaser here as they are hitting the market.
And I have to agree with the glass assessment above. Ive compared the XTR3 to everything I can get my hands on in its price point. I know a shooter who thinks the MK5 is better in every way except FOV, and I have another friend who sold both his MK5s for XTR3s and likes them much better. Ive seen it go both ways with multiple brands. The are so close on so many ocassions that glass simply isn't the tipping point. Reticle, FOV, DOF, parallax, eyebox, turrets, etc, all seem to be the features that will create separation from the other brands. The added caveat of a few of the brands being built in the US should carry some weight as well.
But I did find out the goal is to have the illuminated versions on the market this summer. I'm sure they want them out before hunting season. The official thickness of the new reticle is, and I quote," its a smidge thicker "
And I got on the list to get one out of the first batch release. So I'll be able to drop a teaser here as they are hitting the market.
And I have to agree with the glass assessment above. Ive compared the XTR3 to everything I can get my hands on in its price point. I know a shooter who thinks the MK5 is better in every way except FOV, and I have another friend who sold both his MK5s for XTR3s and likes them much better. Ive seen it go both ways with multiple brands. The are so close on so many ocassions that glass simply isn't the tipping point. Reticle, FOV, DOF, parallax, eyebox, turrets, etc, all seem to be the features that will create separation from the other brands. The added caveat of a few of the brands being built in the US should carry some weight as well.
Thank you for the update. I am holding out for one.
Do you see the possibility of Burris creating a tactical hunter reticle with the same theme as the Bushnell G2H? Throw that into a 3.3-18 XTR3 with illumination & it would sell like hotcakes. This combination would have very few competitors. It's almost a sure bet.I had a good conversation with the Burris brand sales manager today. I was actually trying to get my hands on one of the prototypes to play with it. But these aren't apparently a full scope in the manner that they prototyped the XTR3 when it was under development. These are more basic just to test the illumination and switch.
But I did find out the goal is to have the illuminated versions on the market this summer. I'm sure they want them out before hunting season. The official thickness of the new reticle is, and I quote," its a smidge thicker "
And I got on the list to get one out of the first batch release. So I'll be able to drop a teaser here as they are hitting the market.
And I have to agree with the glass assessment above. Ive compared the XTR3 to everything I can get my hands on in its price point. I know a shooter who thinks the MK5 is better in every way except FOV, and I have another friend who sold both his MK5s for XTR3s and likes them much better. Ive seen it go both ways with multiple brands. The are so close on so many ocassions that glass simply isn't the tipping point. Reticle, FOV, DOF, parallax, eyebox, turrets, etc, all seem to be the features that will create separation from the other brands. The added caveat of a few of the brands being built in the US should carry some weight as well.
I can only speculate, as I havent heard of any plans for an optic or reticle of that nature. If it was in the hopper I probably wouldn't catch wind of it until they are committed to it.
But my speculation would be that its unlikely. My reasoning being they have thus far drawn definitive lines between their Tactical and Hunting line ups. They also have hunting specific reticles already in use. Mostly BDC in nature, but some mil and moa stuff here and there as well. I think the hunting/competition crossover guys are going to lean towards the illuminated SCR2 to fill that role, and the Grand Poobahs at Burris probably feel that should be up to the task. As I've mentioned, my personal opinion is that the SCR is a perfect hunting reticle. But if the reticle thickness of the illuminated SCR2 looks right, I think that will make a pretty good reticle for hunting as well.
I do think its possible however that a new hunting scope could roll out based on XTR3 glass and internals. The Veracity is the hunting version of the XTRII.
Just to update, I received the ZCO 527 mpct3 and have looked through it side by side at different ranges and light conditions for the last couple of days, from 100-3700 yards. Wow. If the difference between the NX8 and XTR3 is 10 pts, then XTR3 to ZCO is 25 pts. Is it 2 XTR3's? That's like asking if a Ferrari is worth 2 Vettes. Yes, but do you need all that? I certainly don't, but I definitely like it. Still questioning whether to keep it or offload to one of you guys and buy another XTR3.
I sold my xtr3 and moved to a xrs2. I had issues with the glass in the Burris. In my opinion the xrs2 is far superior.
What rail do I have if my XTR3 is zeroed at 100 yards, bottomed out? I took the scope out of the box, mounted it in ARC rings, and needed 1 click left to zero it... Thought it was a 20 moa rail, but must be more?
My ZCO 527 in ZCO rings required 12.3 mils up to zero @ 100 with a 20 moa rail. I've since thrown a 40 moa rail on there, but have yet to re-zero.
And... since no updates for a while, any more info re: illuminated versions / reticles / line thickness?
My ZCO 527 in ZCO rings required 12.3 mils up to zero @ 100 with a 20 moa rail. I've since thrown a 40 moa rail on there, but have yet to re-zero.
And... since no updates for a while, any more info re: illuminated versions / reticles / line thickness?
@Chickentoast I messaged Burris on their Facebook page last week asking when the illuminated model of the XTR3 would be and they replied saying it would be available next year and to stay tuned. I kinda feel really let down as some of the in the know guys here on the Hide expected it this summer. In Burris’s defense there doesn’t seem to be any real movement with any scope companies of late.
I would expect the new Bushnell scopes before the Burris ones.
Been saying that for a couple years now, started to be the norm, sounds like it’ll always be “next year”. It’s too bad, they are great scopes but lack of illumination really hinders their appeal to certain shooters.
