Rifle Scopes Bushnell LRTS or Vortex Viper PST GenII

[KineticPerformance]

I just picked up a big frame gas gun and need to scope it. For testing I have been using a riser mount and the Bushnell LRHS I use on my hunting rifle. My Bushnell HDMR is a little bigger than I want to use. Initially, I was going to order a Bushnell LRTS 3-12x44mm FDE because I love my LRHS but I really prefer the H59 reticle over the G3 variants. That got me looking at the Vortex Viper PST GenII 3-15x44mm FFP with the EBR-2C because that reticle is a lot closer to what I want.

I've used a few Vortex optics on guns I have worked on for buddies but have a lot more experience with Bushnell and have a lot of faith in the Elite Tactical line. The Vortex and Bushnell (I could go with either the the 3-12x or 4.5-18) are almost identical in length, mounting length, weight and power range so those points are moot. I'm looking for answers in regard to precision and accuracy of Vortex adjustments and reticle subtension because I don't see this optic in the KillSwitch thread.

 

[.30kal]

The LRHS and LRTS is in a difference class of scope than the Viper. The bushnell is made in Japan vs Vortex in the Philippines. I know a well respected instructor that usually has at least one Vortex Viper break during his classes. I've attended two of his classes where I've personally witnessed the erectors go down on Vipers. There was a post here a while ago about PST Gen II having similar problems. I ran a ERS for years and it never let me down. I just picked up a LRTS and the glass is really nice. I think you'd be taking a step down if you moved from the Bushnell to the Viper.

 

[KineticPerformance]

I'm asking because my understanding is that the Gen2 got some good upgrades and that it isn't anything like its predecessor. I've used Bushnell in matches for 5 years or so after shooting nothing but Nightforce for the 5years prior. If NF made a small optic with FFP and a Horus I'd snap it up but these are the only two reasonable sized optics with scale reticles. I don't have an issue with the LRHS I use or the LRTS on order but I don't like the G3 reticle as much as some other designs that have finer holds and more of them.

 

[Ayoung1]

I have a Viper gen 1 1-4 and a gen 2 5-25, the gen 2 are definitely an upgrade over the original in glass and turrets. I'm thinking about swapping my 1-4 for the gen 2 1-6 now that I've been able to see how much better the new ones are. I've never looked through a Bushnell but I dont think the gen 2 is far off as far as glass, tracking, or turrets.

 

[5RWill]

For the money along with Bushnell's rebate going i think the LRTS/LRHS are impossible to beat. My 4.5-18 was 806$ after rebate. The glass is unbelievable for the money. It holds it's own against optics 3x it's price, and yes it's better than the ERS all around. Give Scott at Liberty Optics a call he will work with you see what you can get an LRTS for and then use the rebate on top of that. I did just that with Optics planet and they brought it down to 1076$.

My friend just received his 3-12 LRTS from EuroOptics and told me the glass was gorgeous as well. He owns a Gen II razor 4.5-27, a Gen II PST 1-6, and now the LRTS. He was a bit disappointed in the Gen II PST. I was expecting Razor Gen I glass and from what i can gather it's not quite up there. I'd put the LRHS/LRTS up there with the Gen I razor Binocs we have easily.

Hell the LRHS has me so impressed i think i want the new SMRS for my AR, since i sold my Gen II razor 1-6 to fund some other optics, i'm looking for a replacement. If the new SMRS has comparable glass to the LRHS, it's will be perfect.

 

[spife7980]

For the money along with Bushnell's rebate going i think the LRTS/LRHS are impossible to beat. My 4.5-18 was 806$ after rebate. The glass is unbelievable for the money. It holds it's own against optics 3x it's price, and yes it's better than the ERS all around. Give Scott at Liberty Optics a call he will work with you see what you can get an LRTS for and then use the rebate on top of that. I did just that with Optics planet and they brought it down to 1076$.
.

Agreed, I got my LRTSi 4.5-18 for 1299 with a rebate value of 325 for a total out the door of 975 once the rebate check comes back. Was that 1076 before the rebate?!

 

[5RWill]

Agreed, I got my LRTSi 4.5-18 for 1299 with a rebate value of 325 for a total out the door of 975 once the rebate check comes back. Was that 1076 before the rebate?!

Yup, they had some banner above the LRHS saying call or live chat now for special price. They went down from 1199$ to 1076$.

 

[spife7980]

Yup, they had some banner above the LRHS saying call or live chat now for special price. They went down from 1199$ to 1076$.

Ah, HS vs TS. I wanted the G3 but for that additional couple hundred though Im not sure I would actually mind the G2H reticle. Shucks but nice to know that the deal is out there for others.

 

[MtnCreek]

Did you have to wait for the scope to come in to send in the rebate? Looks like it ends 06-06.

Disregard, rebate has to post marked by 07-06.

 

[BoilerUP]

I have both the PST Gen II 5-25 and the LRTSi 4.5-18x.

To my eye, Bushnell glass may be a *tad* better, in terms of brightness at 18x as well as clarity...Gen2 doesn't lag by much. Have not compared in a low light situation. Bushnell has brighter illumination, but it should because the reticle is thicker compared to the PST II - thicker than I'd prefer, but not obtrusive. Open center of the EBR-2C seems better for shooting groups on paper.

I need more time behind both to find a preference, but honestly I think both are great choices.

 

[5RWill]

Did you have to wait for the scope to come in to send in the rebate? Looks like it ends 06-06.

Disregard, rebate has to post marked by 07-06.

Purchase has to be made between may 12th and june 06 though. Rebate can be postmarked before 7-6-17 and be fine. Least that's the way i read it.

I have both the PST Gen II 5-25 and the LRTSi 4.5-18x.

To my eye, Bushnell glass may be a *tad* better, in terms of brightness at 18x as well as clarity...Gen2 doesn't lag by much. Have not compared in a low light situation. Bushnell has brighter illumination, but it should because the reticle is thicker compared to the PST II - thicker than I'd prefer, but not obtrusive. Open center of the EBR-2C seems better for shooting groups on paper.

I need more time behind both to find a preference, but honestly I think both are great choices.

That's promising to hear for the Gen II. I was a little off put when my friend expressed that it was nowhere near his Gen II Razor 1-6, which i mean in reality echos the price difference but i was expecting it to be considerably better than the Gen I PST, of which he said he didn't think it was.

As for the LRHS i couldn't be more impressed. I took it out with my USO SN-3 and it just isn't that far behind it. Resolution is higher on the USO, Eyebox is better, FOV better, edge to edge clarity is better too, etc. That's all to be expected given the price difference but it's not far off. It is substantially better than the Mark 4 M2 I had, and better than the mark 6 i had. Though admittedly i'm not a fan of the mark 6. While the glass was good the rest of the scopes design, at least in real world usage was very underwhelming for the price it commands. To be fair i haven't looked through a Gen II PST so i can't comment on those. I've had two of Bushnell's higher end scopes and have thoroughly been impressed with them thus far. Having looked through the XRS Gen II that's probably what ends up on my match gun.

 

[bobke]

I'm good with the two LRHS that I have with the exception of reticle thickness and .2 mil increments that elevation cap mandates. Adjustment is single mil, but cap set in .2 gradations. And understand talking to a Bushnell tech Rep that the non illuminated LRTS reticle thickness is same as on LRHS, with notes to the contrary in another thread here. If they'd thin out the reticle center and fix the elevation cap, it's about perfect on an AR or lighter hunting rifle. Glass is miles ahead of two Gen 1 PST's I have. No Gen 2 to compare.

 

[5RWill]

I'm good with the two LRHS that I have with the exception of reticle thickness and .2 mil increments that elevation cap mandates. Adjustment is single mil, but cap set in .2 gradations. And understand talking to a Bushnell tech Rep that the non illuminated LRTS reticle thickness is same as on LRHS, with notes to the contrary in another thread here. If they'd thin out the reticle center and fix the elevation cap, it's about perfect on an AR or lighter hunting rifle. Glass is miles ahead of two Gen 1 PST's I have. No Gen 2 to compare.

I noticed this too and thought my cap was maybe defective because for the life of me i couldn't put it on my zero. Literally makes no sense. If that is truly the design it's a flaw.

 

[spife7980]

I'm good with the two LRHS that I have with the exception of reticle thickness and .2 mil increments that elevation cap mandates. Adjustment is single mil, but cap set in .2 gradations.

I noticed this too and thought my cap was maybe defective because for the life of me i couldn't put it on my zero. Literally makes no sense. If that is truly the design it's a flaw.

Just to make sure I understand this correctly: theres a 50% chance that in getting a perfect zero the turret cap could be .1 high or low of the actual 0? Aka, there are only half the splines there should be on the inner column for the cap to set down onto?

Honestly I doubt I would have noticed in practicality as it always seems like my zero is a bit high or low depending on the weather and whether Ive had a beer yet or not but I will at least be aware now.

 

[supercorndogs]

I noticed this too and thought my cap was maybe defective because for the life of me i couldn't put it on my zero. Literally makes no sense. If that is truly the design it's a flaw.

I think its kind of a flaw, as in they should have used a 100 spline turret instead of 50 spline or 80 or whatever it is, but they are all like that. Sometimes you just have to settle for .1 off.

 

[fdkay]

I think its kind of a flaw, as in they should have used a 100 spline turret instead of 50 spline or 80 or whatever it is, but they are all like that. Sometimes you just have to settle for .1 off.

The new scopes feature a 100 spline turret. It is no longer an issue.
One of the reasons I didn't buy one before, but own one now (LRTSi 4.5-18)

 

[supercorndogs]

The new scopes feature a 100 spline turret. It is no longer an issue.
One of the reasons I didn't buy one before, but own one now (LRTSi 4.5-18)

Good to know. .1 doesn't bother me, all the time. Sure would be nice to get that upgrade.

 

[5RWill]

Yeah i'm a 1/10th high on my SPR below my zero. Granted with that particular gun it's not a big deal. On my bolt rifle it would bother the shit out of me. I might see if Bushnell will replace it because it's going on the SAUM when it's finished until Dad wants to fund an optic for it.

 

[bobke]

Wonder if they'd retrofit selectively, if owner wanted 100 spline, rather than a general recall.

 

[DOA]

I have both the PST Gen II 5-25 and the LRTSi 4.5-18x.
Open center of the EBR-2C seems better for shooting groups on paper.

For me, the open center reticle is much easier for shooting tiny groups and engaging small targets (less than MOA) far away. The Bushnell's reticle obscures those especially at high zoom. Had a Bushnell Elite tactical 3.5-21x and sold it for a Vortex gen 2 4.5-27x and am currently awaiting a PST Gen 2.

 

[5RWill]

I really don't find the G2H too thick, though i've been using a GAP milling reticle for so long it all seems normal to me. I will say the SKMR3, EBR2C, and Athlon reticles are all thinner than the G2H, G2/3, and GAP milling.

 

[Birddog6424]

I had an opportunity to play with the new Gen II PST at a match over the weekend. It's a night and day improvement over the Gen I. A completely different scope.

We dropped it alongside a handful of scopes and made some comparisons. I think the features and glass are right where they should be for it's price point. I would personally lean towards the Bushnell between the two, I think it's a nicer scope overall. And there is still that sort of "unknown" quality of the new Vortex. But I like some of the features of the new PST such as the reticle and the turrets. It's going to be a great seller for Vortex.

 

[dannySH]

I own a PST GII 3-15x44 FFP and a PST GI 6-24x50 FFP having the time to compare both I can assure you that the second generation is a huge improvement over the first. To my old eyes the glass is way more clear, eye box is better (but still a little tight) it has better and bigger low profile turrets with very tactile and audible clicks, it has better zero stop with infinite zero adjustment on the elevation turret. Unfortunately I have no chance to compare it with the Bushnell.

 

[moosemeat]

Bushnell. Hands down. The LRHS and LRTS glass for my eyes in better the the PST and below the G2 Razor but not by much. The clicks on the ones I've shot track perfectly fine. I am a fan of Vortex but just like the Bushnell better. It's what I would spend my money on for my second rifle.

 

[long range sponge]

Is the DMR2 glass the same as the LRHS/LRTS?

 

[5RWill]

Is the DMR2 glass the same as the LRHS/LRTS?

I've gotten mixed opinions on this. I thought it was the same as the old ERS/XRS, which didn't make much sense, why a cheaper scope would have better glass. Because through and through the LRTS/LRHS glass is a notch above the ERS/XRS. However my friend just got a DMR II from GAP using the bushnell rebate and i asked him repeatedly what he thought about the glass compared to his old XRS and his Gen II Razors. He said it's much better than his XRS that he had but not quite up to par with the Gen IIs. If that's any indication i'd say the glass is the same as the LRHS.

 

[long range sponge]

I ask because I'm looking to pick up either a DMR2 or 4.5-18 LRTSi from experticity. If the glass was noticeably better in the LRTS I'd give up the magnification especially since the DMR2 is non-illum. Just pissed I missed the rebate.

 

[longshot2000]

The new scopes feature a 100 spline turret. It is no longer an issue.
One of the reasons I didn't buy one before, but own one now (LRTSi 4.5-18)

so, is the current LRTS the same as the LRTSi, just not illuminated, or does the LRTS have the same cap issue as the LRHS ?

 

[fdkay]

so, is the current LRTS the same as the LRTSi, just not illuminated, or does the LRTS have the same cap issue as the LRHS ?

To the best of my knowledge, they have ALL been updated to 100 splines

 

[longshot2000]

thanks. How does the DMRII compare with the LRTS ?

 

[Primus]

Going to be tough to compare until the PST's have been in the wild a while and are proven. If I had to take one, it would be the LRHS. Perhaps in a year or 2 when the PST's are proven, it may end up being a better value.

 

[magtech]

thanks. How does the DMRII compare with the LRTS ?

The majority of what I have READ says that the LRTS/HS > DMR2 glass wise. If you really want the DMR2. Bushnell is rumored to have a the DMR2pro (Better glass) releasing very soon.

 

[patriot07]

I have yet to look through a Bushnell that I thought was worth the asking price. I have in no way seen them all, but all the ones I have seen appeared to have lower quality glass than the price point would suggest. That's JMHO, and I think I'm nearly alone in that perspective on SH, but that's what I think. Their reticles are also pretty lacking IMHO.

 

[SLG]

I have yet to look through a Bushnell that I thought was worth the asking price. I have in no way seen them all, but all the ones I have seen appeared to have lower quality glass than the price point would suggest. That's JMHO, and I think I'm nearly alone in that perspective on SH, but that's what I think. Their reticles are also pretty lacking IMHO.

I have never been a Bushnell fan, even when family friends were making them great again.

Having said that, I have one LRHSi from GAP, and it is pretty impressive. Not quite as good glass as my SWFA, but supposed to track as well and be pretty rugged. It is cheaper than the SWFA, and lighter, and it has easier controls and a zero stop. Seems like a great budget crossover scope to me, I I highly recommend it if you need a scope in the $750 range.

 

[patriot07]

I have never been a Bushnell fan, even when family friends were making them great again.

Having said that, I have one LRHSi from GAP, and it is pretty impressive. Not quite as good glass as my SWFA, but supposed to track as well and be pretty rugged. It is cheaper than the SWFA, and lighter, and it has easier controls and a zero stop. Seems like a great budget crossover scope to me, I I highly recommend it if you need a scope in the $750 range.

The glass on that LRHSi would have to be quite a bit better than the XTR II for me to get excited about it. I have criticized the XTR quite a bit, but the SCR reticle might be the best reticle in the sub-$2k market.

I do wish the SWFA had a zero stop...can't argue about that one at all.

 

[SLG]

The glass on that LRHSi would have to be quite a bit better than the XTR II for me to get excited about it. I have criticized the XTR quite a bit, but the SCR reticle might be the best reticle in the sub-$2k market.

I do wish the SWFA had a zero stop...can't argue about that one at all.

Ha, I don't care too much about the zero stop on the SWFA, I wish it had a better reticle and slightly easier to turn controls. Either way, its a hell of a scope for its price. I feel the same way about the LRHS, but at an even lower cost.

This is really splitting hairs for me, as I'm unlikely to use either for hunting, being a true NF snob, but if it was a darker night, like with cloud cover or little moon, I would prefer the SWFA for hunting. On a clear night, its pretty much a toss up for me, and I prefer the reticle and handling of the LRHS.

I have an XTR2 coming, just because I want to try it out first hand, but based on the majority responses here, I expect to find it in 3rd place for glass and ruggedness, maybe first place for reticle, and somewhere in the middle for controls and features.

We will see. Even though I'm an admitted NF snob, and biased very heavily, it is amazing to me how many good options (good for what, is up to you) exist today in the $1500-$750 category.

 

[Eric B.]

I bought the Bushnell 5.4 - 18 x 44 LRTS with an illuminated G3 reticle for my 6.5 PRC Browning X-Bolt Pro. I mounted it with Talley rings in matching burnt bronze Cerakote and an optional bubble level in the top rear ring.

For hunting here in the western US, mainly Nevada, I think it is the ideal long range hunting scope. Very good glass for not being ED glass like the rest of the ELITE line. (AND WHY THE HELL IS THAT?)
I got it for $980. and felt it was a great buy. I would have paid another $500. street price for ED glass.