Rifle Scopes Buying a USO

[Inogame]

Read up and down the forums concerning glass, and I have chosen USO for my first high end scope purchase.

End of the day, I like being able to have it built to my preference, it's made in the USA (Well, California, they haven't been kicked out of the Union yet), and they back up their product. Win-Win-Win as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not ragging on other manufacturers, US ones or not, but all reasons put together are why I'm going USO.

I got a quote for an SN-3 3.2-17 44mm:
Ergo Parallax
Mil-scale Gap
EREK mil Elevation
US#3 mil Windage
Red Illumination
Internal ACD bubble level.

Everything else I'm going with is standard.

I'm buying it to top a GA precision built .308 AR - 20" barrel

I have two questions for the Hide,

1. Are there other USO options that I should consider?
Not everything is listed on the website. Some new stuff might have been seen at SHOT.
I'm not sure I need any other options because in my absolutely biased opinion this scope will do way more than I am even capable right now and has everything I can even consider needing. I'm just fishing for opinions.

2. Is the 17x more than I need? Would I be better served with a 10x and save the $ for more ammo?
Truth be told, the longest range within 2 hours from me is 300 yds. That being said I view glass purchases in the pay once cry once philosophy, eventually I will move on to more shooting friendly areas, where I will endeavor to stretch my capabilities.
I will also use this for hunting, do you guys think the 10x will be more practical from a weight and FOV point of view?

Just did my taxes last night and daddy needs to get USO a check to start building!

Appreciate the opinions,
Thank you.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Buying a USO

I have both and in the 44mm configuration and the 1.8-10 is not enough weight difference to matter. It is all the mag you will need for your application. I would consider the 37mm slimline 1.8-10 also...it is enough lighter and smaller to make a difference. Personal preference is the biggest thing though....do you want more mag?

 

[Swan]

Re: Buying a USO

Looks good! You will never regret having 17x... f the 10x.

Only change I'd do is throw the windage on the left side

 

[Inogame]

Re: Buying a USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have both and in the 44mm configuration and the 1.8-10 is not enough weight difference to matter. It is all the mag you will need for your application. I would consider the 37mm slimline 1.8-10 also...it is enough lighter and smaller to make a difference. Personal preference is the biggest thing though....do you want more mag? </div></div>

I should have specified the 10x I would be considering. It would be the 37mm obj. My fault, I knew I'd forget something. Read my post 3 times before I sent it, so no doubt I'd leave something off.

On one hand I've always felt you can never have too much mag, and I don't know that I'm all that concerned about wieght at the end of the day.
I guess the only worry I have is FOV at the lower settings, is the 17x tunneling going to be problematic for me just for magnification I might never stretch out far enough to use?
Or am I worried for no reason and I'm being paranoid just prior to dropping 3 dimes on glass?

 

[Swan]

Re: Buying a USO

you are worried for no reason and being paranoid prior to dropping 3 dimes on glass

 

[jbailey]

Re: Buying a USO

Inogame-
Great decision on the USO. Their products are excellent. On your question 3.2-17x44 vs 1.8-10x37 -
I own both scopes. The 3.2-17x44 is massive next to the 1.8-10x37, which is already a big scope. The pure numbers - weight and length - do not do the size difference justice. The 3.2-17 is on my long-range rig and I don't even think of shooting it at 300yds unless I'm developing a load (which I shot for groups at 300yds) or part of a larger match that has longer range shots. The 1.8-10x37 however is on a precision AR and I have shot it extensively at 300 and all the way out to 1000yds without any issues. If I was you, and this was for a 308Win that will hardly go out past 300, I would go with the 1.8-10x37, save the dollars, weight and pure space on the rig. And it is much more hunter friendly, with the FOV and weight/size issues (unless you are shooting varmints at 800yds). 1.8-10 is a much better fit, IMHO.
But either way, you will not be disappointed

 

[head2h2o]

Re: Buying a USO

Don't change the magnification. You can always dial down if you feel like it is too much.

I am not a fan of the ERGO, so I would at least look at the TPAL. I just don't care for the parallax adjustment on the objective end of the scope.

The 3.2-17 that I have has a Gen IIXR reticle. Not an option on their site, but they will install it for you. It comes at a slight extra cost, but it is a nice reticle.

This will be a nice scope for your AR 308.

 

[ken12]

Re: Buying a USO

I bought a 3.2x17x44 Tpal suppose to be here tomorrow. Cant wait it is going on a 6mmx284 pistol. I just hope weight isnt that bad.

 

[Inogame]

Re: Buying a USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are worried for no reason and being paranoid prior to dropping 3 dimes on glass </div></div>

No doubt. Thanks Swan.

 

[Inogame]

Re: Buying a USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Inogame-
Great decision on the USO. Their products are excellent. On your question 3.2-17x44 vs 1.8-10x37 -
I own both scopes. The 3.2-17x44 is massive next to the 1.8-10x37, which is already a big scope. The pure numbers - weight and length - do not do the size difference justice. The 3.2-17 is on my long-range rig and I don't even think of shooting it at 300yds unless I'm developing a load (which I shot for groups at 300yds) or part of a larger match that has longer range shots. The 1.8-10x37 however is on a precision AR and I have shot it extensively at 300 and all the way out to 1000yds without any issues. If I was you, and this was for a 308Win that will hardly go out past 300, I would go with the 1.8-10x37, save the dollars, weight and pure space on the rig. And it is much more hunter friendly, with the FOV and weight/size issues (unless you are shooting varmints at 800yds). 1.8-10 is a much better fit, IMHO.
But either way, you will not be disappointed

</div></div>


Ok, this goes along the line of thinking I was having...

Initially, I wanted the 17x now, because I plan on buying a nice bolt action in the next couple years and would relocate the 17 and possibly get a 10x for the AR - OR another 17x... or a 22x depending on how my shooting evolves. The more I think through I'm leaning toward getting the 10x now which better fits my situation and then upping to 17x when longer ranges become more available to me.

As far as the T-pal goes, I know there are fans of both. On one hand I like the side adjustment but on the other I've read it's not as precise and it can make the sides of the scope cluttered.

 

[dvdt]

Re: Buying a USO

I have a 3.2-17x44 and it is AMAZING! You will *LOVE* this scope.

I was ringing steel today on 3.2 pretty easily... and I'm no expert by any means. You could probably shoot circles around me.

I used to think I would need 20x+ magnification to see/shoot very far. With top quality glass you simply do not need that much magnification. I was worried I wouldn't have enough magnification coming from a Falcon 4-14 cause I would crank it to 14X to see and shoot at 300. Guys on here say they run around in the 7-8s in terms of magnification and they are not joking. It's all you need.

Just another plug for USO, I called Jeff today and he gave me some great customer service. I called, quickly pronounced my name, and started firing questions at him. He caught my name, explained what was going on, and was very, very polite. USO can't be beat. I need another one!

+1 on the TPAL version. It's a preference thing IMHO. The ERGO according to folks on here provides better image quality which I find hard to believe given how happy I am with the glass.

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Buying a USO

I have a 1.8-10X44 and will be changing to a 1.8-10X37 in the near future. The norm is 1X per 100 yards, so 10X should get you to 1000 yards. I have a friend with the 3.2-17X44 Canadian model on a bolt rifle, great scope but no way I'd want to run it on a semi auto for hunting.

Ask yourself these questions... How long of shots do you take hunting? Do you need to see the bullet hole or are you happy seeing the target?

I used to have a 6.5-20X50 scope and thought it was great having all that magnification to see the target with. A friend (the one with the 3.2-17X44) semi-talked me into the 1.8-10X44 for my rifle (I should have listened to him more). I haven't found a time where I wished I had more magnification and I shoot out to 800 yards with my setup. Maybe if I had to ID a target at that distance I'd want more magnification but I have yet to find myself in that situation and I don't imagine I will.

This has just been my experience with scopes thus far and definitely don't know all there is to know.

 

[jbailey]

Re: Buying a USO

For 1000yds and under, the one area in which you wish you had more magnification than 10x is ranging. The 1.8-10x isn't the best ranging scope - and when I range with it, I always get 5-8% errors. If you plan on ranging with the scope a lot, 17x might be more the ticket.

 

[5RWill]

Re: Buying a USO

I have the 17x on my .308 and couldn't be happier. I start shooting F class this year

. If you think you'll never have the intention of using your rifle up to 1000 i would stick with the 10x. I sometimes wonder about my 17x at 1000 but i think i'll be fine. I watched a friend who really just likes plinking and not shooting long range hit a goose at 300yds with a 4x optic. So i've recently changed my mine for my SPR which i will only shoot up to 600m. I think i'm going to put a 10x on it. You could always get the 17x just to be future proof if you ever wanna start shooting farther.

 

[Inogame]

Re: Buying a USO

OK, I requested a matching quote for the 10x, and I also asked to quote both with and without t-pal, once I have the info I'll get it figured out.

I still think I'm leaning towards ERGO, but I'll price it and ponder a bit. I'll have time. IRS won't accept my tax return until Feb 14th, so it'll be a bit of time before my down payment will go.

Thanks for the feedback and opinions all. It's given me some great points to think about.

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Buying a USO

I was in the T-PAL vs. ERGO boat too, ERGO won. My reasons were it's less lenses in the scope, less knobs on the turret block, more room for adjustment with rings, more forgiving if not adjusted right and don't have to always start at infinity and adjust to focus (and start over at infinity if you pass it).

For me it's not a bad reach to adjust the ERGO objective on my 1.8-10X, but it may be for some. On a 3.2-17X44 I would probably want T-PAL since the scope is about 4.5 inches longer.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Buying a USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks good! You will never regret having 17x... f the 10x.

Only change I'd do is throw the windage on the left side

</div></div>

Same here, but I'm in love with the MPR reticles....

That reminds me, I think I'll send my 7-08's scope in for an internal ACD....

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Buying a USO

Don't forget a sunshade with ARD if you ever shoot mornings into the sun....world of difference!

3.2-17 is the best all around for general purpose medium caliber stuff. I prefer ERGO to TPAL, seems more flexible to me.
I like 3.8-22 for match shooting as sometimes matches get set up where the magnification can help a lot, but rarely feel lacking with my 3.2-17 either.
I got rid of my ST10's, I am not a believer in 1X for every hundred yards. It does ok for some, and the last ASC was ran with all ST10's I believe, but the match works with scopes like that. Many matches now run stages strictly on paper and being able to tell a 1" octagon from a 1" circle or a 3/8" spade from a 3/8" club may mean the difference.

3.8-22 Ergo, MPR, lit reticle, EREK, #3 windage, 355mm tube is what my go-to rifle wears. I don't mind the extra weight.

Now that its in the shop for a few weeks, I can always use the scope for batting softball.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Buying a USO

This is like an AA meeting in a way. Someone sharing their experience of being sober three months versus someone with thirty years sobriety. If the listener knows the difference at the outset the shared experience can then be weighted with that in mind.
I've been doing this stuff for 40 years if that matters. All that jazz to say this

Higher magnification will help to identify a hit after its made in some cases especially if your looking for a bullet hole in paper or on steel. Higher magnification magnifies everything. Mirage. Which as we know makes the target blurry and appear to move around. Higher magnification magnifies the movements of the hold of the rifle. That's bad. That makes the shooter feel his hold is bad and reduces confidence in the shot.

I recently shot at 1000 with a 10x scope on the same rifle I had shot with a 22X scope. I shot no better with the higher magnification, to my surprise.

I'm one that thinks more, bigger, higher, deeper, greater, newer is always better. It isn't.

BTW, the lighter scope is an advantage too. You can lighten the rifle but not the scope.

Hope it helps you.

 

[K_4c]

Re: Buying a USO

I went with a 1.8-10X37 on my REPR... works fine and is a great all around scope. All the hype "more mag is better" is bullshit. Use what fits the weapons and your capabilities. I served as a 11B 4B and the Luppy M3A is a fixed 10X optic... hits out to 800 where not much of an issue with enough trigger time.

Here's my set up

 

[Bronco]

Re: Buying a USO

Just my opinion, but I do have both scopes. For the 308 gas gun I'd go with the 1.8-10X37. Mine is actually a 44 obj. but close enough. Does 800 yards no problem, fits the rifle better, can also go on a small format AR if needed. 3.2-17X44 belongs on a bolt rifle, yes I know guys that have them on gas guns and for some specific matches they work very well. But for your stated use I sure think the 10X would be best. My opinion again, skip the T-pal and go with the ERGO.

 

[Inogame]

Re: Buying a USO

Anyone know more about the new, digital illumination controls option???

Saw a SHOT show thread mention it. I'm assuming it would replace the knob?

Thanks for the other feedback guys. The discussion is really helping me be comfortable with what build I want.
I especially appreciate the specifics on what you guys use and how. That way I can try to imagine what similar or different compared to my plans.

K_4C - Nice stick, man.

 

[Luke]

Re: Buying a USO

Do you need 17x? not really...but it is nice. I think the biggest disadvantage to the 17x is it's size and weight, especially if it's going on a smaller 20" AR platform. I have the 17x on my 24" Savage with a 9" suppressor and the scope still feels big. I think the 17x would be ideal on 1000+ yard gun, while for most purposes under 1000 yards the smaller 10x works great for .308's and minute-of-man targets. Just my $0.02

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Buying a USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luke</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 10x works great for .308's and <span style="font-weight: bold">minute-of-man</span> targets. Just my $0.02 </div></div>

That works great while employed as a killer, but here in the civvie world many gain enjoyment from hitting targets smaller than "minute of man".

Higher mag allows better observation for those slated as shooters stateside, and as a recreational shooter if you play in the precision rifle competition or just fun arena, you will encounter targets much smaller.

10X for 1K sure sounds macho and military though. I'd wager $5 that you won't see a fixed 10X or scope with 10X max power on the line at the SnipersHide Cup at RO this year-for good reson.

 

[Luke]

Re: Buying a USO

I'm pretty sure you just re-iterated what I said. The 10x works great for minute-of-man/minute-of-steel whatever you want to call it. It also work great in <span style="font-style: italic">most</span>, not <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> situations...

Do you want use a 10x to shoot benchrest matches with...no, but you wouldn't be using an AR platform for that to begin with.

Can you still shoot very accurately to 1000 yards with a 10x? absolutely... but if you plan on shooting at 1000 yards the majority of the time you should probably upgrade to a longer barrel or a longer-legged cartridge than the .308 before the 17x will make a noticeable difference...

All other things equal would I choose a 17x variable over a 10x variable, yup...

Will the 10x work for the 300 yard range the guy usually shoots at? sure...

Is the 17x better than the 10x? most definitely, if cost, weight, size, and portability are not an issue.

Considering the scope is going on 20" AR platform which would fit the package better?... most likely a smaller, lighter 10x.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That works great while employed as a killer, but here in the civvie world many gain enjoyment from hitting targets smaller than "minute of man".

Higher mag allows better observation for those slated as shooters stateside, and as a recreational shooter if you play in the precision rifle competition or just fun arena, you will encounter targets much smaller.

10X for 1K sure sounds macho and military though. I'd wager $5 that you won't see a fixed 10X or scope with 10X max power on the line at the SnipersHide Cup at RO this year-for good reson. </div></div>

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Buying a USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget a sunshade with ARD if you ever shoot mornings into the sun....world of difference!</div></div>

Would you recommend the Tenebraex sunguard that snaps into the lens cover? I'm looking at going this route on my next USO. Supposed to be about the same effectiveness but adds less than a 1/4 inch to the scope's OAL. For a 1.8-10X37 seems like it'd be the ideal choice to keep weight and size down.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Buying a USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget a sunshade with ARD if you ever shoot mornings into the sun....world of difference!</div></div>

Would you recommend the Tenebraex sunguard that snaps into the lens cover? I'm looking at going this route on my next USO. Supposed to be about the same effectiveness but adds less than a 1/4 inch to the scope's OAL. For a 1.8-10X37 seems like it'd be the ideal choice to keep weight and size down. </div></div>

No. I personally can't stand Tenebraex's ARD's. The USO 2" sunshade with ARD is of no consequential weight and the "open" honeycomb design seems to me to clarify the depth of field and sight picture. It also makes a big difference in barrel mirage.

Speaking of mirage-I like that higher mag magnifies mirage. If you use your parallax control you can read wind mirage and different "parts" of the downrange picture.

I know many can utilize 10X scopes very well and proficiently.

The OP said he would rather "buy once cry once". My experience is that I'd rather have and not need, than need and not have.

If the weigh difference of a 3.2-17 over an ST10 is going to be an dealbreaker, then its going to be a dealbreaker. If the few ounces were that big of a deal to me I'd hit the gym.

 

[Inogame]

Re: Buying a USO

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the input from everyone. (not just resurrect a long dead thread)

I paid for and ordered the Scope a few weeks ago, with the help of Rob01's gift certificate sale (Which covered a set of TROY flip sites and a Larue scope mount), now I'm just antsy - playing the waiting game.

Gonna be the longest 8-12 weeks ever. (well 5-9 now)