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Caliber choice ?

lostangel

lostangel

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Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2010
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El Campo, TX
www.inamorato.net
I am looking at my first build. It will take awhile, as I must do this as funds are available.
I am pretty much set on a Remington 700 action. Calibers are down to 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06, or .308.
Stock will likely be the AICS Stage 2 (I like the folding stock, unless there is a reason to avoid it.)

Concerns are as follows
1) Ammo availability (I started to reload, but am not proficient at it.)
2) Long range performance (I have never shot out past the 300 yd berm at the local range (300 yards is all the range has)), but I would like to be able to.
3) Long range balistics (I have no armchair commando dreams of becoming a sniper, but I occasionally go elk hunting with my grandpa and I have seen 600 yard shots on Elk being required, albeit rarely)

30-06 is a nice flat shooting round, and AP ammo is still available for it, while it is not for the other calibers.

As I said, this will be a multipurpose rifle. I love to hunt. That and ammo prices are the reason I have not considered the 50 cal rifles.

Now, if WW3 or the next civil war comes along, this rifle will have that duty as well, but I doubt we will see that happen.

Zombies, now....
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

I love the 7mm for long range accuracy, but the 308 is no slouch either. The 30-06 for what ever reasons is not the "fashion statement" in the long range game as it is in the hunting world. Any of the listed calibers are good to go IMHO. Shot what you like and the rest of the world be damned is my opinion.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

Good calibers listed, I have a friend who shoots with me and his almost bone stock 30-06 Ruger m77 will smash my steel all day at 6-700 yds if he stays ontop of it.
Have you considered a wsm? there are lots of ammo suppliers, but it is more expensive. I would recommend either a 300 or 7wsm, and get better at reloading, as they will aptly perform the tasks you brought up.
As far as barrels go, almost any of the ones you see mentioned here on the hide will do you well. I personally have experience with Kreiger and Lothar, both have made fantastic rifles.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

+1 on the Kreiger Barrel.

Of your caliber choices, I would definitely go with the 7mmRM. The 7mmRM can launch some heavy bullets with good accuracy and high ballistic coefficients.

Consider the 7WSM also. Close performance.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

You can't go wrong with any of the 3 calibers.
308_medium recoil,long barrel life,inexpensive to reload with lots of data.Low factor ammo cost.
7mm_Heavy recoil,better ballistics, faster and flater than 308/30,06 .higher reload cost,short barrel life.
30.06_heavy recoil,long barrel life,inexpensive to reload and not as much data as the 308.Low factory ammo cost.
7mm is my choice...I have the need,the need for speed!
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

Long range match shooters and winners are seeing wonderful results from the 6.5x284. Wonderful bullet choices, reasonable recoil, and not overly hard on barrels.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lostangel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Mike,

Also, any barrel recomendations?

</div></div>

I would personally look at Benchmark Barrels or Brux Barrels. Really like both of them.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

for hunting i just fininshed a 7wsm, it gives good ballistics and great killing power with the berger bullets.
if you arent into reloading the 308 is a good way to go.
lots of ammo available and tons of ballistic data.
benchmark barrels all the way.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

go the 7mm rem mag or a Short mag in 7mm i run the Rem SAUM and it is a better designed case than the Win case but to make the 7mm's perform you will have to hand load.

If you want a calibre that you can just buy match ammo and shoot the 308 is the go but if you handload the 30-06 and 7mm mags are infront. as for the 6.5-284 they are barrel burners and most are droping them for a 7mm either in straight 284 or a short mag. i have a club mate that has a sendaro in 7mm rem mag and hr launches the 175gr matchkings well over 3000 fps accuratly past 1000 yards we trued throated the barrel out so he could seet the projectile out past the doghnut and bedded the rifle then adjusted the trigger he is usig a 14 power leupold and it is hus deer rifle from point blank to as far as he can shoot. also he is using Retumbo great powder for a 7mm mag.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

i have shot .308,7mm mag,30-06 and out of all of them i stuck with a .308 and went and bought a remington 700 sps tactical....
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

My vote would be for the .30-'06 from among the choices privided, and .260 Rem as an alternative. In terms of trajectory, distance, and accuracy, I consider the two as pretty closely matched, with the .30-'06 getting the edge where ternminal energy is an issue, and the .260 where it's less of an issue, although it still outperforms the .308 in that respect at the greater distances.

The biggest advantage to the '06, IMHO, is the extreme range of loads and applications it can support. It can be a pussycat, and it can anchor big game pronto.

7Mag is a relatively tame choice for a Magnum, and I've seen them perform well in 1Kyd F Class.

But I don't favor Magnums because I believe the recoil and shooting cost issues are not helpful when contemplating extensive practice; which I consider mandatory to marksmanship skills sustainment. This is easily circumvented by doing the bulk of sustainment practice with .22LR, and that's my suggestion.

Greg
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

.308, Bartlein bbl., Krieger bbl. Cheap to shoot, durable, accurate, low muzzle blast, low recoil....all of that means a lot of trigger time. And that means confidence and proficiancy.

Nothing sexy about it...just gets the job done!
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

What I can tell you is to check LOCAL STORES for ammo availabilty unless you are going to handload. Reason I say that is, I was asking pretty much same question you are asking, and essentially everyone told me .308 was easy and cheap to find. HA!!! I can tell you I have been to 4 different stores, and 7 different locations to find .308 locally, and no dice.
Sure, they have SOME if you are ok with $13 a box cheap crap, but I hav ebeen relegated to ordering online since I don't handload. I can't tell you why there is no .308 locally (Houston/Pearland, TX area) to me and everywhere else across teh country it is "supposedly" readily available.

If you go to any Bass Pro Shops/Academy/Wal Mart you can walk out with just about ANYTHING in the .243/.270/.300/.30-30/.30-06

So, if you are not going to handlaod, check local stores is what I would do for ammo, and see what they carry an abundance of, and then base a decision off that. I am now down to having to order online to get the "good stuff", start handloading, or buy $13 a box Winchester 150 grain are my options.

Food for thought anyways
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lostangel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking at my first build. It will take awhile, as I must do this as funds are available.
I am pretty much set on a Remington 700 action. Calibers are down to 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06, or .308.
Stock will likely be the AICS Stage 2 (I like the folding stock, unless there is a reason to avoid it.)

Concerns are as follows
1) Ammo availability (I started to reload, but am not proficient at it.)
2) Long range performance (I have never shot out past the 300 yd berm at the local range (300 yards is all the range has)), but I would like to be able to.
3) Long range balistics (I have no armchair commando dreams of becoming a sniper, but I occasionally go elk hunting with my grandpa and I have seen 600 yard shots on Elk being required, albeit rarely)

30-06 is a nice flat shooting round, and AP ammo is still available for it, while it is not for the other calibers.

As I said, this will be a multipurpose rifle. I love to hunt. That and ammo prices are the reason I have not considered the 50 cal rifles.

Now, if WW3 or the next civil war comes along, this rifle
will have that duty as well, but I doubt we will see that happen.

Zombies, now.... </div></div>

<span style="font-size: 17pt">7mmRm</span>... Because it shoots almost as flat as a 50cal out to a mile with heavy bullets and has plenty of energy for "hunting" any animal in the US.Zombies typically need a more knock down power from what I've seen on TV
grin.gif


It can be loaded down in power with lighter bullets for medium range recreational shooting and still be superior to 308 and 30-06 in the wind.

Readily available over the counter ammo and components.

Steve
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

I have a .308 with a Krieger. I choose a .308 because I get that ammo from work and it does everything I need it to do.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

I may not be looking at the right places. However, I am having a hard time finding a barrel for 30-06.
Ammo prices are not THAT much of a concern, unless 7mm or 30-06 are going at 50 BMG prices.

So far, got it nailed down to 30-06 or .308, AICS stock, m700 action from Iron Brigade, Vortex PST 6-24x50 FFP, perhaps a jewell trigger.

Just need to narrow down the caliber, find a barrel, and the cash of course.

Thanks for all the advice guys.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

I would agree with Greg. The 260 is my favorite. But the 30-06 has larger load varitey.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My vote would be for the .30-'06 from among the choices privided, and .260 Rem as an alternative. In terms of trajectory, distance, and accuracy, I consider the two as pretty closely matched, with the .30-'06 getting the edge where ternminal energy is an issue, and the .260 where it's less of an issue, although it still outperforms the .308 in that respect at the greater distances.

The biggest advantage to the '06, IMHO, is the extreme range of loads and applications it can support. It can be a pussycat, and it can anchor big game pronto.

7Mag is a relatively tame choice for a Magnum, and I've seen them perform well in 1Kyd F Class.

But I don't favor Magnums because I believe the recoil and shooting cost issues are not helpful when contemplating extensive practice; which I consider mandatory to marksmanship skills sustainment. This is easily circumvented by doing the bulk of sustainment practice with .22LR, and that's my suggestion.

Greg </div></div>
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peepaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I can tell you is to check LOCAL STORES for ammo availabilty unless you are going to handload. Reason I say that is, I was asking pretty much same question you are asking, and essentially everyone told me .308 was easy and cheap to find. HA!!! I can tell you I have been to 4 different stores, and 7 different locations to find .308 locally, and no dice.
Sure, they have SOME if you are ok with $13 a box cheap crap, but I hav ebeen relegated to ordering online since I don't handload. I can't tell you why there is no .308 locally (Houston/Pearland, TX area) to me and everywhere else across teh country it is "supposedly" readily available.

If you go to any Bass Pro Shops/Academy/Wal Mart you can walk out with just about ANYTHING in the .243/.270/.300/.30-30/.30-06

So, if you are not going to handlaod, check local stores is what I would do for ammo, and see what they carry an abundance of, and then base a decision off that. I am now down to having to order online to get the "good stuff", start handloading, or buy $13 a box Winchester 150 grain are my options.

Food for thought anyways </div></div>

you would be surprised what that 13-14.00 a box federal can do i have shot that at .5 at 100 yards (.308)....

also like stated above check the hunting stores around your place for the ammo. The 30-06 has only 150-200 fps on the 308, the 308 can be loaded to 30-06 velocity. Of course if you handload the 06 you can gain the velocity back. The recoil of the 30-06 is not significantly more than a 308, nor is the muzzle blast. Bottom line, the 30-06 is not significantly more powerfull than the 308...... and if you ever decide to upgrade the rifle you have to think about the actions the .308 is a short action and the 06 is a long action.

also here is a nice link to some readin
laugh.gif


http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: winxp_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peepaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I can tell you is to check LOCAL STORES for ammo availabilty unless you are going to handload. Reason I say that is, I was asking pretty much same question you are asking, and essentially everyone told me .308 was easy and cheap to find. HA!!! I can tell you I have been to 4 different stores, and 7 different locations to find .308 locally, and no dice.
Sure, they have SOME if you are ok with $13 a box cheap crap, but I hav ebeen relegated to ordering online since I don't handload. I can't tell you why there is no .308 locally (Houston/Pearland, TX area) to me and everywhere else across teh country it is "supposedly" readily available.

If you go to any Bass Pro Shops/Academy/Wal Mart you can walk out with just about ANYTHING in the .243/.270/.300/.30-30/.30-06

So, if you are not going to handlaod, check local stores is what I would do for ammo, and see what they carry an abundance of, and then base a decision off that. I am now down to having to order online to get the "good stuff", start handloading, or buy $13 a box Winchester 150 grain are my options.

Food for thought anyways </div></div>

you would be surprised what that 13-14.00 a box federal can do i have shot that at .5 at 100 yards (.308)....

also like stated above check the hunting stores around your place for the ammo. The 30-06 has only 150-200 fps on the 308, the 308 can be loaded to 30-06 velocity. Of course if you handload the 06 you can gain the velocity back. The recoil of the 30-06 is not significantly more than a 308, nor is the muzzle blast. Bottom line, the 30-06 is not significantly more powerfull than the 308...... and if you ever decide to upgrade the rifle you have to think about the actions the .308 is a short action and the 06 is a long action.

also here is a nice link to some readin
laugh.gif


http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp </div></div>


Well, I am not surprised as I just shot that $13 junk this ast weekend, breakin in my rifle still, and was able to shoot just over 1/2 MOA, so yeah, it IS capable...but think is safe to assume that it is what it is, and not much more than that. Maybe I got lucky, but I think is safe to assume that it will not group on a consistent basis.

I have checked local gun stores, and NADA.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

^^^ i dont think that its a luck issue if im able to get .5 +- MOA and you are also.... the ammo works for what it is
laugh.gif
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

Also looking at the McMillian A5 stock. I like the way it looks better, but I like the AICS folding option. Good think I don't have the cash in hand. I can never make up my mind...
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lostangel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also looking at the McMillian A5 stock. I like the way it looks better, but I like the AICS folding option. Good think I don't have the cash in hand. I can never make up my mind... </div></div>

i guess this will depend what you plan on doing with the rifle.... McMillan stocks are real nice but if for what you are doing you need the stock to fold then go AICS if not the McMillan ............ plus that mcmillan looks better
smile.gif
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

In all seriousness though. If I went with the McMillian, should I send the barreled action to them and let them bed it, or is this something I can get my local gunsmith to do. I figure it's worth the extra cash to let McMillian do it.

Just an FYI, I have never built a rifle before. Ar's, yes, but never a bolt action. Never even replace my own stock. Usually just bought a off the shelf rifle.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

mcmillan stocks are drop in from what i know.... now if you want to have your gunsmith do it i dont know if i makes a difference i have never tried it.....
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

McMs are not drop in, you should have it bedded. AICS is drop in.

For the most cost effective option and still an amaizing stock, check out the McRee.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

^^^^ you know what your right its the custom stuff thats drop in with mcmillan. and as for who to bed the rifle if your gunsmith aint bad in price he/she should be able to do it for you just fine.......
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: winxp_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^ i dont think that its a luck issue if im able to get .5 +- MOA and you are also.... the ammo works for what it is
laugh.gif
</div></div>


Well, maybe not in your case, but I can say jury is still out in my case. I am not gonna let teh sea's part just yet after a nice day at the range. Don't get me wrong, YES, would be nice if I can pay $13 for ammo, and get results like that all the time.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

if you want a folder Mc Millan does them on A5's check there tactical page there you get the best of both worlds.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.308, Bartlein bbl., Krieger bbl. Cheap to shoot, durable, accurate, low muzzle blast, low recoil....all of that means a lot of trigger time. And that means confidence and proficiancy.

Nothing sexy about it...just gets the job done! </div></div>

+1

This is what I did.

My reasons:
1. Common caliber, ammo "easy to find". The reason you can't find it on the shelves is because lots of folk are buying it up. If we ever came to a situation where you needed to use it, chances are there would be a lot more folks with a stockpile that they would dip into for you, for a price. Anyway, lots of folk shoot it.
2. Cheaper to reload (308 uses about 3/4 of the powder of a '06 or 7mm)
3. Less recoil. Now maybe you are a "Macho Man", but face it, lower recoil is nothing to sneeze at. It translates to more trigger time. That and cheaper to reload.

Yes, both other calibers you mentioned have better ballistics, and both are also pretty common calibers, but not nearly as common as 308.

Questions for you:
1. How much do you intend to shoot the rifle? May sound like a dumb question, but if your answer is "a lot", then go with the 308. Longer barrel life, cheaper to shoot/reload, less recoil. If you will be shooting it less and using it more for hunting purposes where you will be taking that 1 important shot per year, then you maybe the other calibers would be a better choice.
2. What distances are you going to be shooting? 308 can be used reliably out to 600yds and more, depending on your abilities and field shooting skills and game you are after. It will reach out to 1000yd but will take more skill to get there accurately and reliably. Long range shooting is not easy. It's not just a matter of consulting your ballistic program or drop chart for the desired distance and dialing in your scope. It takes lots of practice to shoot long range consistently well (read costs a lot--more for '06 or 7mm) And if you develop a flinch . . .

As to the stock, try to get behind both the A5 and the AICS. I found my preference was for the A5 but the AICS may fit you better. Both good stocks. The only way you can go wrong is if you get the one that doesn't feel right to you. Try before you buy.

My choice, for my needs (sounds very similar to yours):
dsc0308b.jpg

dsc1111r.jpg

dsc0857.jpg


Specs:
-Remington 700 action (trued up from a .243 ADL donor action from WM)
-Bartlein 25" barrel in .308 Win (it's FAST!!!)
-McMillan A5 stock
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lostangel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope, thats just the m14 stock. </div></div>

Give Mc Millan an email on the folder as i got the info on their folding A5's a while ago and built a folder on a laminated A% with the same stock swivel as they were using. so i know that they were making them at one time and it was an option in the tactical line of stocks so i would give them an email they even used to have them as pictures on their old website.
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

My A-5 was a prototype, and I kept it unbedded and mounted it up with several friends' barrelled actions so they could see for themselves whether it could be something they could like. They all did.

Yes, the McMillan stocks will benefit from bedding; and yes, they will benefit from pillar bedding, but the key benefit will be in durability. They are very durable (I think in terms of 'bulletproof), but pillars do improve the situation.

Accuracy (on my A-3) changed very little when I had the pillar bedding done, and it was done by McMillan. Honestly, I can't think of anyone better for the job.

Greg
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johngfoster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.308, Bartlein bbl., Krieger bbl. Cheap to shoot, durable, accurate, low muzzle blast, low recoil....all of that means a lot of trigger time. And that means confidence and proficiancy.

Nothing sexy about it...just gets the job done! </div></div>

My reasons:
1. Common caliber, ammo "easy to find". The reason you can't find it on the shelves is because lots of folk are buying it up. If we ever came to a situation where you needed to use it, chances are there would be a lot more folks with a stockpile that they would dip into for you, for a price. Anyway, lots of folk shoot it.


</div></div>


You must have missed or not read my post all the way through...I said I even asked the sales rep if that was all they had, or maybe they were sold out and he told me, nope, this all we carry. Again, maybe where you are, .308 is readily available, but I can ASSURE you that in teh locations I have been to, .308 is NOT readily available, and is not simply because they have been "bought out".
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johngfoster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
PGS said:
.My choice, for my needs (sounds very similar to yours):
dsc0308b.jpg



</div></div>


By the way, love your rig, VERY nice!
Click to expand...
 
Re: Caliber choice ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lostangel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope, thats just the m14 stock. </div></div>

Give Mc Millan an email on the folder as i got the info on their folding A5's a while ago and built a folder on a laminated A% with the same stock swivel as they were using. so i know that they were making them at one time and it was an option in the tactical line of stocks so i would give them an email they even used to have them as pictures on their old website.

</div></div>

per Dick Davis at McMillan
"Patrick,
Sorry, but no. Our rifle manufacturing company did show a prototype
folding A5 at a show once, but we have not found a method to do this
that meets our standards and do not offer one.
Regards, McMillans"
 
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