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Suppressors Calling a revolver a pistol

sblanch

Private
Minuteman
Oct 28, 2009
96
0
42
Iowa
Had a friendly debate with a buddy of mine.

I give him shit all the time for calling magazines "clips" then the other day I refered to a revolver as being a pistol.

He quickly corrected me saying that only autoloaders are pistols and calling a revolver a pistol was akin to the mag/clip issue that I always call him on.

I argued that yes, commonly semi-autos are called pistols and revolvers called revolvers to avoid confusion but, that it was fine to call them pistols seeing that we both knew what I was talking about and that the term "pistol" has been used to describe a gun intended to be fired from the hand far longer than the autoloading handgun has existed.

Bottom line, pistol and revolver are interchangable terms, mag and clip are not.

A silly arguement, I know, but it got my wheels spinning so I decided to get some more opinions.

What do you guys say?
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<span style="font-style: italic">Some handgun subtypes include derringers, single-shot pistols, revolvers, semi-automatic pistols, pepperboxes, and machine pistols</span>

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handgun

????

Here it says... Definition of PISTOL
<span style="font-style: italic">a handgun whose chamber is integral with the barrel; </span>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pistol
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

I use handgun and pistol interchangeably to refer to both semi-autos and revolvers.

Clips are most definitely not the same as magazines. Pet peeve of mine. My friends like to use the term clip incorrectly on purpose to piss me off.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

Well dictionary.com's def. is : a short firearm intended to be held and fired one-handed.

Now, lets just suppose you wanted to use the terms interchangeably, would you ever have a <span style="font-style: italic">machine revolver</span>? I think that would be unlikely, it would be a <span style="font-style: italic">machine pistol</span>, would it not?


<span style="font-style: italic">OOpps. It was after typing this post that I found out there actually used to be a machine revolver, say nothing of the info another poster mentioned.</span>
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nw1911guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well dictionary.com's def. is : a short firearm intended to be held and fired one-handed.

Now, lets just suppose you wanted to use the terms interchangeably, would you ever have a <span style="font-style: italic">machine revolver</span>? I think that would be unlikely, it would be a <span style="font-style: italic">machine pistol</span>, would it not? </div></div>

A malfunctioning Webley Fosberry would be a machine revolver.
Actually, I understand these are easy to bump fire.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

Well since I’m new here I guess I can blabber a few times with a little immunity. the term "pistol Whip" goes back to the 1840's when you would use a pistol (revolver, since I think that if the Confederate army had 1911's they would have used them) to quite bluntly, bludgeon someone.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

You could ask him what they had back in the days of black powder?

Also in the days of hand-held single shot duelling weapons in the 18th Century?

Or what would he call a 1911??

IMO the term "revolver" refers to the mechanism - in much the same way as you might discuss "flintlock" or "bolt action" in regards toother firearms....or whatever other action type might be the topic.

Pistol is the generic term for this type of firearm as pointed out above.

I don't think that pistol and revolver are interchangeable.

I'd say he's on shaky ground with this one.

And...FWIW.......I'd also say that a clip is something different to a mag!
wink.gif
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Some handgun subtypes include derringers, single-shot pistols, revolvers, semi-automatic pistols, pepperboxes, and machine pistols</span>
Here it says... Definition of PISTOL
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">a handgun whose <span style="font-size: 11pt">chamber is integral with the barrel</span></span>; </span>
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pistol </div></div>

This agrees quite well with what I have been taught. On my "C" Forms for the Department, as well as my CCW Permit, my single-shots and auto-loaders are described as "pistol". The revolvers are listed as "revolver".
No dog in this fight, and we all concede your definition of clips & magazines.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you guys should shoot more and talk less...

Josh </div></div>

DING DING DING, FOR THE WIN!

Who gives a rats ass what its called, just shoot it. Call it dog shit who cares.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you guys should shoot more and talk less...

Josh </div></div>

As long as you're lettin' your trigger finger cool down, why not use your typing one to help me settle a minor difference of opinion?
smile.gif



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Who gives a rats ass what its called, just shoot it. Call it dog shit who cares. </div></div>

I'll try the "dog shit" one, but I doubt he'll like that any more than "pistol."
wink.gif
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

These uses of "pistol" and "revolver" are technical definitions, which means they were terms created as a consequence of an invention, innovation or other technical development. So it's not like we're arguing "proper English", as in <span style="font-style: italic">unalienable</span> versus <span style="font-style: italic">inalienable</span>.

Just ask an artilleryman whether any hand<span style="text-decoration: underline">gun</span> meets his definition of what makes a <span style="text-decoration: underline">gun</span>, yet the most of us commonly refer to any smoke pole as a "gun", even BB guns.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

did not men of yore that were much skilled with a revolver called pistoleers?
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

" You gonna pull them pistols or whistle dixie"

Tell your friend if he can't read he needs to watch more tv. lol
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

i thought i was alone.. I have many pet peeves will my hunting buddies who shoot 5 rounds a year

clips are not magazines
bullets are not complete rounds
shells go in a shotgun not your deer rifle

when you try to educate they just think you are being picky

any my biggest is when in a firearm store someone picks up a Sigma or Hipoint and immediately decides to see what it will look like at a 45 degree angle
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

Although the term pistol is often used interchangably with handgun, the fact is that revolvers are handguns but the are not pistols.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did not men of yore that were much skilled with a revolver called pistoleers?</div></div>

good point, point being the term pistoleers was around long before semi auto handguns
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

From what I've heard....

All handguns are technically pistols due to being named for one of the main places they were manufactured - - Pistoia, Italy. This fits in with words such as bayonet, denim and champagne - Bayone, de Nîmes, and Champange, France.

Further development of the pistol led to the revolver, an entirely new class of handgun that needed a distinguishing name and later to the auto-loading handgun which we all know as the pistol or semi-auto pistol.

Etymology of early words is always hard to track and the older the more difficult, usually.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

Or try this one;
call a 'rifle' a 'gun' to a Marine. Oh, horrors!
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

A revolver is not a pistol. Calling a revolver a pistol is incorrect. Your friend was right.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A revolver is not a pistol. Calling a revolver a pistol is incorrect. Your friend was right. </div></div>

How did you reach this conclusion?
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A revolver is not a pistol. Calling a revolver a pistol is incorrect. Your friend was right. </div></div>

You are kidding right?
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: caustic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A revolver is a pistol but a pistol is not always a revolver </div></div>
Oh yeah?

Colt_carbine.jpg
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hattori Hanz&#333;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did not men of yore that were much skilled with a revolver called pistoleers?</div></div>

good point, point being the term pistoleers was around long before semi auto handguns </div></div>

Did you just high five yourself?
crazy.gif


And "pistoleer" <span style="font-style: italic">was</span> around before semi auto handguns... but that does not mean it was describing those who used revolvers. A single shot pistol predates the revolver & that is where the word originates.</div></div>

correct sir, point is pistol was the term prior to any auto pistol was around. And we all should high five ourselves now and then, HA HA
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hattori Hanz&#333;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...And "pistoleer" <span style="font-style: italic">was</span> around before semi auto handguns... but that does not mean it was describing those who used revolvers.... </div></div>
Nor does it mean it wasn't.

W.B. Hickok, who was never seen without his twin Colt 1851 Navy revolvers, was popularly referred to as "the prince of pistoleers."
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: caustic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A revolver is a pistol but a pistol is not always a revolver </div></div>
Oh yeah?

Colt_carbine.jpg
</div></div>

Nice one ... I stand corrected . I never saw a revolver rifle before very cool. Thanks
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

: a handgun whose chamber is integral with the barrel; broadly : handgun

from websters.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

The term Pistol, though initially coined to denote the Single Shot Pistols of the day, evolved immediately...as all terms do BTW...to include Multi-Shot Pistols. Multi-lock superimposed Pistols with single and even multiple barrels were produced in the 1500s. Ultimately other multi-shot Pistols including other Wheelock, then Flintlock, Snaphaunce, Percussion and Self Contained Cartridge ignition systems followed. There were not only very early single and double barrel Pistols, but in no time, 3 and 4 barrel Flintlock Duck's-Foot Pistols, 2,3 and 4 barrel Flintlock Tap and Slide Action Pistols. There were Percussion versions of the previous Flintlock Pistols and even Manual Magazine Multi-Shot Pistols. Multi-shot revolving Pepperbox Pistols were the precursor to the original revolver, Colt's Revolving Pistol.

They were all called PISTOLS, including the Revolving Pistol. Pistol is still the correct, proper, technical term when referring to a handgun, regardless of operating system. Have we shortened Revolving Pistol to just revolver in contemporary times? Sure, but before doing so, the US Army was known to drop “Revolver” and just use “.44 Army Pistol” when referring to the Revolving Pistols in use during the War of Northern Aggression. BTW, in the mid-1800s, one who used and was proficient with the Revolving Pistol was in fact called a Pistoleer.

Point of fact, the first order of any size for Sam Colt, to the Republic of Texas Navy in 1839, was for 180 Colt Paterson Revolving Pistols (as well as revolving rifles/carbines). Subsequently, the Colt-Whitneyville Walker, a massive 5+ pound .44 Revolving Pistol was sold as the Walker Pistol. The Colt 1851 Navy Caliber (.36) Revolving Pistol was referred to as the Revolving Holster Pistol to differentiate it from the smaller Pocket Pistols of the time. Colt, the US government, ammunition (paper cartridge) manufacturers and the public alike referred to revolvers as Revolving Pistols.

To forestall the inevitable; “Didn’t happen without pictures”, here are just a couple original period paper cartridge boxes:
Cartridgebox.jpg

P1.jpg


For those who rely upon the internet, here is a direct quote from the National Firearms Museum:

"Samuel Colt was born in Hartford, Connecticut on July 19, 1814. He showed an early fascination with science, and during his youth, Colt studied both chemistry and mechanics. While still a boy, he attempted to produce a pistol that was capable of firing multiple shots without reloading, but his efforts were unsuccessful. In 1830-31, while the sixteen year-old Colt was serving as a seaman aboard the brig Corvo, he observed the ship's wheel and the relationship of the various spokes to the center hub. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">This inspired him to make a wooden model of a revolving pistol.</span> </span>Although others had already experimented with revolvers, Colt's design was the first to automatically rotate the cylinder when the gun was cocked. After his return to the United States, he showed his model to his father, Christopher, and to Henry L. Ellsworth, a friend of the elder Colt who was then serving as Commissioner at the U.S. Patent Office in Washington. Both men encouraged Samuel to continue with his work and to seek a patent for his design.

At this point in his life, Colt had an idea but no money with which to proceed on his new career path. For the next four years, he worked the traveling show circuit as "Dr. Coult of Calcutta." His lectures and demonstration of nitrous oxide to crowds in the U.S. and Canada provided a source of capital, which was forwarded to gunsmiths who produced working versions of his firearms designs. In addition to the money he received, this period in his life also provided Colt with valuable experience in public speaking, marketing, and public relations. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">At age 20, Colt gave up touring and, with borrowed money, traveled to Europe to secure English and French patents for his revolving pistol.</span> </span>Upon his return to the United States in 1836, he also received a U.S. patent.

In March, 1836, Colt formed the Patent Arms Company and began operation in an unused silk mill along the banks of the Passaic River in Paterson, New Jersey. His first product was a ring-lever revolving rifle, available in .34, .36, .38, .40, and .44 caliber, in which a ring located forward of the trigger served to cock the hammer and advance the cylinder for each shot.<span style="text-decoration: underline"> <span style="font-weight: bold">This was soon followed with a revolving pistol. </span></span>These five-shot "Paterson" revolvers featured folding triggers, and were available both with and without loading levers in .28, .31, and .36 caliber. Patent Arms also produced smoothbore revolving carbines and shotguns."

A revolver IS a pistol, the historical record is clear.

Nothing to see here folks, move on ;)
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

The historical record is irrelevant. Words change over time. The word "pistol" does not include a revolver. A revolver is not a pistol.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you guys should shoot more and talk less...

Josh </div></div>

BINGO!
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The historical record is irrelevant. </div></div>

The words of a revisionist.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The historical record is irrelevant. Words change over time. The word "pistol" does not include a revolver. A revolver is not a pistol. </div></div>

“The historical record is irrelevant.” Really? This will come as one hell of a surprise to many, particularly those who rely so much upon precedent in their chosen profession :/, but to the point here, especially the multitude of gun owners who believe in “Original Intent”. How do you want to define “well regulated”, how about “militia” and then there’s “arms”, the meaning of all 3, some point out, have “changed over time” and no longer mean what the framers quite obviously intended.

Well, since you’ve taken it upon yourself to make such a pronouncement, perhaps you’ll take on the responsibility of notifying the Smithsonian, the National Firearms Museum, the Cody Firearms Museum and…well, I won’t keep you, you’ve got a lot of work ahead of you. Oh, don’t forget the guy who just paid $920,000.00 for what was advertised at auction as a “Colt-Whitneyville Walker Pistol”, I’ll bet he’ll be pissed that all he go was a revolver.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

The word goes back a little further than the atf. They are hardly a definitive source on language.


http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=pistol

small hand-held firearm," c.1570, from M.Fr. pistole "short firearm" (1566), of uncertain origin, sometimes said to be from Ger. Pistole, from Czech pis'tala "firearm," lit. "tube, pipe," from pisteti "to whistle," of imitative origin, related to Rus. pischal "shepherd's pipe." But earlier form pistolet (1550) is from M.Fr. pistolet "a small firearm," also "a small dagger," which may be the literal sense; though some connect this word with It. pistolese, in reference to Pistoia, town in Tuscany noted for gunsmithing. Pistol-whip is first recorded 1942.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

No , I posted a definition from websters way back in the thread. You need to
reread the thread. And I could care less about the atf's use of the word. They
are spastic at best in their adherence to their own rules.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

And if you read the definition of a pistol having the barrel one with the chamber that comes from the uncertain term pipe, whistle, tube as the one and only definition you are rewriting history. The same dictionary says, broadly: handgun.
You are nitpicking and trying to revise history with no more knowledge or access
to facts than anyone else here. I am near sixty and have heard the word pistol
used for all handguns my entire life. I did not engage in posting my opinion, I
posted definitions and a movie line. And the first post of the dictionary definition
left out the broad use of the word.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hattori Hanz&#333;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sub2.908cm/100m</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The historical record is irrelevant. Words change over time. The word "pistol" does not include a revolver. A revolver is not a pistol. </div></div>

“The historical record is irrelevant.” Really? This will come as one hell of a surprise to many, particularly those who rely so much upon precedent in their chosen profession :/, but to the point here, especially the multitude of gun owners who believe in “Original Intent”. How do you want to define “well regulated”, how about “militia” and then there’s “arms”, the meaning of all 3, some point out, have “changed over time” and no longer mean what the framers quite obviously intended.

Well, since you’ve taken it upon yourself to make such a pronouncement, perhaps you’ll take on the responsibility of notifying the Smithsonian, the National Firearms Museum, the Cody Firearms Museum and…well, I won’t keep you, you’ve got a lot of work ahead of you. Oh, don’t forget the guy who just paid $920,000.00 for what was advertised at auction as a “Colt-Whitneyville Walker Pistol”, I’ll bet he’ll be pissed that all he go was a revolver. </div></div>

Easy there big fella...

Sucks about the douche who paid close to a mil for a handgun. Maybe he could have fed some starving children instead. You are saying because someone advertised something as a pistol then that makes it true? <span style="font-weight: bold">A couple days ago I saw magazines advertised as "clips" at cheaper than dirt</span>... Guess that's a game changer huh?

There is a very clear definition of pistol that the ATF uses and that does not include revolver. </div></div>

I don't imagine you'd want others telling you how to spend your money...and calling you a douche in the process...but that's between you and the "douche" in question, don't have a dog in that fight
wink.gif


Game changer? Naaaa, it's called a quip, but when national level museums, collector's associations, and high end auction houses describe a firearm, they generally try to be technically correct in describing it, ya think? The more valuable the...whatever, the more important the description be correct and why it was mentioned.

One would imagine the terms coined by inventors and original manufacturers would be accepted as technically correct terminology for their inventions and products though...and would then be beyond dispute. Sam Colt's most famous invention subsequently produced by Colt, Whitneyville and others was, in fact, termed a Pistol, a Revolving Pistol. Clearly, everyone and their brother considered the Revolving Pistol just another type of Pistol at the time. Eventually, for the sake of brevity folks began calling the Revolving Pistol just revolver. Just like the Self Loading/Semi-Automatic Pistol soon became the Automatic Pistol and later the Autopistol, yada yada yada.


As a side note, you aren't seriously comparing the description provided by a high end auction house with a Cheaper Than Dirt ad? Previous dealings many years ago with CTD convinced me that "douche" fits in there somewhere
wink.gif



Finally, the contention that ATF's definition of Pistol vs. Revolver is gospel. Based upon ATF's proclivity to change firearm definitions whenever they damned well please to close perceived legal loopholes of what constitutes this, that or the other thing, I'm not sure ATF has a lot of credibility with anyone in the firearm field. BUT, since you insist.....


"Pistol: A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)."

"Revolver: A projectile weapon, <span style="font-weight: bold">of the pistol type</span>, having a breechloading chambered cylinder so arranged that the cocking of the hammer or movement of the trigger rotates it and brings the next cartridge in line with the barrel for firing."

I'll leave it there...
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hattori</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There is a very clear definition of pistol that the ATF uses and that does not include revolver.</div></div>

The ATF seems pretty fickle about their classifications for various "firearms".

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-na...r-guns-firearms

I doubt anyone on this forum would call an airsoft gun a firearm.
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

I likes my clips in my pistols full of boolits so I can pop caps in asses. Fo Sho
 
Re: Calling a revolver a pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I likes my clips in my pistols full of boolits so I can pop caps in asses. Fo Sho</div></div>

true dat my nizzle