Suppressors Can an NFA trust be used to prove that you own a gun prior to a ban?

[High Binder]

Hey guys, here in Colorado we have a bill going through HB-1229 (link below) that is called a so called 'Universal Back Ground Check' but it's really a confiscation bill. The Republican law makers and several attorneys from around the state made it VERY clear that confiscation would occur if you were out driving around and got pulled over and couldn't PROVE that you didn't buy your gun on the black-market, i.e. without a background check. So like everybody else who owns guns, I don't have receipts and the ones I do just have the price and no reference to the serial numbers and forget about guns passed down through the generations... Anyway, you see where this is going. In a nut shell I, and everybody else in CO, need to figure out a way to establish ownership of my guns prior to this bill going into law on July 1 2013. I was thinking an NFA trust might accomplish this but I'm not sure about that, so any help or other ideas would be nice.

Thanks!

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cl...2AFC2F87257A8E0073C303?Open&file=1229_ren.pdf

 

[thrusty]

Sorry to say, just creating a NFA trust and putting random firearms in the "Schedule A" won't cut it. It won't be enough to prove ownership existed prior to a specific date.....you already know where this leads - gun registration.

However, if these items actually are NFA items then you should have copies of your original Form 4....which has an approval date on them...this is all you would need in this case.

If you clarify exactly what you want to put in a trust I may be able to help you more...

 

[thrusty]

I have an idea for you.....

You could possibly locate a dealer in your State willing to help....take your firearms to him, have him log them in...then sell them back to you with an itemitized receipt and background check. Have all your documentation certified by a Notary Public.

 

[thrusty]

I have an idea for you.....

You could possibly locate a dealer in your State willing to help....take your firearms to him, have him log them in...then sell them back to you with an itemitized receipt and background check. Have all your documentation certified by a Notary Public.

When I say have him sell them back to you...I mean he just charges a simple fee for the paperwork.

 

[thrusty]

If you have waiting periods and max firearm purchases, you best hurry.

 

[High Binder]

Sorry to say, just creating a NFA trust and putting random firearms in the "Schedule A" won't cut it. It won't be enough to prove ownership existed prior to a specific date.....you already know where this leads - gun registration.

However, if these items actually are NFA items then you should have copies of your original Form 4....which has an approval date on them...this is all you would need in this case.

If you clarify exactly what you want to put in a trust I may be able to help you more...

Damn, that sucks. None of them would be NFA items, just run of the mill target/hunting guns.

 

[High Binder]

When I say have him sell them back to you...I mean he just charges a simple fee for the paperwork.

That is a good idea and I have a buddy who is an FFL so that might be the ticket. We don't have waiting periods but because of the impending bans on everything the background check system (Colorado does two different background checks) is back-logged for weeks where it used to take about 10 mins.

 

[n64atlas]

One way is to list all your firearms with pics serial numbers ect. and have the copy noterized. If you can get a notery to come and view your collection, all the better.

 

[thrusty]

One way is to list all your firearms with pics serial numbers ect. and have the copy noterized. If you can get a notery to come and view your collection, all the better.

Ahh yes, that's what I was originally thinking. Matter of fact, I was thinking of having your collection appraised and documented. However, that may be expensive and time consuming under the impending legislation.
Call your FFL and offer cash for his paperwork services, make sure you have serials, makes, models and photos just for shits and grins.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Simple and something you can do all by yourself without involving an FFL/SOT.

Take pictures of the serial numbers, go to Walmart print out an index sheet of all the prints along with the full size prints. The index sheet has coding that says the date of printing.

Another fool proof way would be to email pictures to yourself of all the serial numbers, by that email you are proving the dates since thats difficult to forge especially if you print it with the hash tag(I think thats the right term).

Notary works as well with pictures of the serials, notarize each picture with date.

Lots of ways to do it than tie up an FFL and get them involved with their legal documentation.

 

[High Binder]

Damn you guys are good. Lots of good ideas. I think a combination of all of them would be airtight proof that you owned a gun on a specific date.

Please post up more ideas. There's a ton of people in Colorado that are going to be looking for a way to prove ownership once they hear how this bill really works.

 

[thrusty]

Damn you guys are good. Lots of good ideas. I think a combination of all of them would be airtight proof that you owned a gun on a specific date.

Please post up more ideas. There's a ton of people in Colorado that are going to be looking for a way to prove ownership once they hear how this bill really works.

Ok, how about take a photo of the firearm's serial with a current government issued ID in the same photo. Should also work...don't know if it will hold up in court.
Only thing that would be air-tight would be the FFL route or something that has a notarized date....now if you notarized the above photo...there ya go.

 

[raider1v1]

Sorry to say, just creating a NFA trust and putting random firearms in the "Schedule A" won't cut it. It won't be enough to prove ownership existed prior to a specific date.....you already know where this leads - gun registration.

However, if these items actually are NFA items then you should have copies of your original Form 4....which has an approval date on them...this is all you would need in this case.

If you clarify exactly what you want to put in a trust I may be able to help you more...

how would that not work? the schedule a on the trust, at least on mine, is dated and notarized.

 

[raider1v1]

Ok, how about take a photo of the firearm's serial with a current government issued ID in the same photo. Should also work...don't know if it will hold up in court.
Only thing that would be air-tight would be the FFL route or something that has a notarized date....now if you notarized the above photo...there ya go.

has there been any discussion on what people are supposed to do? there has to be some way that people can prove this, without carrying a notarized receipt for every firearm.

 

[High Binder]

has there been any discussion on what people are supposed to do? there has to be some way that people can prove this, without carrying a notarized receipt for every firearm.

I think most people see it as a back-door way to confiscate guns. The ability of the police to confiscate was brought up over and over in the committees and hearing so they know full well that it's going to happen and they specifically chose not to "fix" it. It's pretty clear that the intention is to grab all the guns that they can and this is how they're going to do it. I even posted video from the hearings where they're blackmailing the sheriffs to do their bidding in the 2nd amend forum. The way it stands now is that come July 1, if you can't prove you own a gun you run the very high risk that it'll be confiscated if you take it out of your house or use it to defend your house, basically anytime a cop gets his hands on your gun you're going to loose it if you don't have this proof. The media hasn't figured this out yet so there's been very little discussion but the Senators did and made a big deal about it in the hearings.

 

[thrusty]

how would that not work? the schedule a on the trust, at least on mine, is dated and notarized.

My "Schedule A" is not notarized...I wouldn't assume many people's are as it would require it to be re-notarized every time you decided to add an item to the trust. The only places that are notarized on my trust are the signature pages of the grantor, trustees and the official date that the trust became active.

Trusts are not generally used to prove ownership...Here's an example: I can take the make, model and serial of your favorite firearm and put it on my "Schedule A". Does that now mean I own it? Not unless I have supporting documentation like a Form 4, Gunshop Receipt, photo of it in my hands, eye witnesses, etc.. Trusts for firearms are, however, typically used to create a pool of assets so that multiple people may legally manage them.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Most schedule A's are not notarized and change frequently.

Sched. A wouldn't prove you owned it prior to the ban.

Pics would prove it, print them out notarize and email them as well. Its not that difficult.

 

[Napsters]

So what is the deal if you move in from out of state?

 

[John_in_WYO]

You Colorado folks have become Californicated.
Please keep it down there.
Lord, what a mess you guys have.
Good luck fighting this.

 

[FedCop]

You Colorado folks have become Californicated.
Please keep it down there.
Lord, what a mess you guys have.
Good luck fighting this.

Yeah, no kidding say bye bye to those rights. Such a bunch of BS

 

[High Binder]

You Colorado folks have become Californicated.
Please keep it down there.
Lord, what a mess you guys have.
Good luck fighting this.

Yep, we're getting bent over and totally raped. If we don't win and repeal some of this shit in 2014 I'm moving back to my homeland (Texas) ASAP!

 

[jwebster]

Lots of non residents will be spending their hunting dollars elsewhere. I used to fly into Denver International and rent a truck and drive to Wyoming to hunt, not any more.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

Personally I wouldn't worry that you're going to get charged because of an old gun that you didn't get a background check for. The burden of proof is going to be on the prosecution to prove you bought the gun after the law went into effect. Without proof that you purchased without a background check after the law was enacted they don't have a leg to stand on and could not win a case against you. These laws are practically unenforceable unless stings are set up to catch people in the act. These laws are a freaking joke and are very poorly written... There us no need to worry we just need to either do a amendment like in the other thread or a veto referendum to get rid of that garbage before it even becomes law.

 

[mrX]

Lots of non residents will be spending their hunting dollars elsewhere...

Agreed...cancelling plans for non-resident hunts in Calorado this year...

 

[dvdt]

How does this new law affect folks that might relocate to Colorado with these types of firearms and accessories ? My job moves me around quite a bit.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

How does this new law affect folks that might relocate to Colorado with these types of firearms and accessories ? My job moves me around quite a bit.

Noone knows yet, they were so quick to push this law through that they left a bunch of holes in it including that one.

 

[tracvision]

Yep, we're getting bent over and totally raped. If we don't win and repeal some of this shit in 2014 I'm moving back to my homeland (Texas) ASAP!

Texas is next. O_bam_a has his henchmen putting select demoncrats in very important locations. Colorado is already done. I hear they have their eye on Florida next. Damn shame these far lefties care not what our forefathers gave us.

 

[TwoNiner]

Forget about the paperwork to prove ownership. If Colorado is becoming that anti-gun then you're going to have an uphill battle and the police will confiscate your firearms anyways. And once they have them they will have them for good. Even if you have all your paperwork and ducks in a row I doubt you would get them back. If anything you're realistically doing the paperwork for piece of mind, thats it.

Welcome to California. Pretty soon you will be limited to 10 round magazines, background checks will take 10 days, cans are illegal, you will only be able to transport firearms unloaded in locked containers, and no more CCW permits. Now you know what being a second class citizen feels like!

 

[High Binder]

Now you know what being a second class citizen feels like!

We're not "second class citizens," we're becoming serfs.

 

[300WSM]

Move!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Graham]

The Republican law makers and several attorneys from around the state made it VERY clear that confiscation would occur if you were out driving around and got pulled over and couldn't PROVE that you didn't buy your gun on the black-market, i.e. without a background check...any help or other ideas would be nice.

What does the statute require as a form of proof?

 

[Kilmore]

Take your guns down to your local gun/pawn shop, get a loan on them, pay the interest plus loan amount and buy them back, fill out the NFA paper work to get them transfered back to you, and you will have an approval from the state BCI when the transfer to you is approved. On the spot with a CCW permit. 3 day wait without (Utah).

 

[shaman]

Take pictures of all of your guns, serial numbers, etc. make 10-15 copies of each picture, and mail the pictures to yourself. When they come for you, hand them the federally date stamped letter, let them open it so they can see. If you want to get more detailed, mail yourself pictures of each gun separately. That way you don't have to "waste" all the pictures on one opening, and you don't have to show them all of the guns you have.

 

[SteelW0LF]

Texas is next. O_bam_a has his henchmen putting select demoncrats in very important locations. Colorado is already done. I hear they have their eye on Florida next. Damn shame these far lefties care not what our forefathers gave us.

Solution: Henry Bowman