• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Can I get away with just neck sizing on my semi-auto?

the once-ler

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 7, 2012
1,057
3
SC
I was told that I had to full length size when I am prepping brass for a gas gun by several guys. If I am prepping brass that is and will only be shot out of the same rifle why can't I just NS?? I did NS some of the brass from that rifle and it feeds and ejects just fine. I can't see how it would be a problem since it would be fireformed to that chamber just like a bolt gun right?
I wanted to ask here before I went ahead and loaded the neck sized brass for that rifle.
 
If you want the ammo to work properly, feed reliably, and ignite after it is chambered, then FL size.
 
If you want the ammo to work properly, feed reliably, and ignite after it is chambered, then FL size.

Why wouldn't it ignite? if the round seats in the chamber ignition shouldn't be an issue. Bolt guns have no issue feeding fireformed neck sized cases, what would the difference be? That is one of the reasons brass is used because it blows up against the chamber walls then shrinks back.
 
Can I get away with just neck sizing on my semi-auto?

Why wouldn't it ignite? if the round seats in the chamber ignition shouldn't be an issue. Bolt guns have no issue feeding fireformed neck sized cases, what would the difference be? That is one of the reasons brass is used because it blows up against the chamber walls then shrinks back.
Not sure about your brass argument... because steel and aluminum are used as well.

But it will most certainly ignite. You want the bolt to be fully closed before that happens.
 
Last edited:
I tried only bumping .002" once. I'd get a click every 4-5th round or so because the cartridge didn't seat properly and the bolt didn't close all the way. After 2 sessions, I hit the rest of the brass with a f/l sizing and the problem went away.


L
 
most likely you will have to full lenght size, hot brass expands and gas guns eject it while it is still vey hot (and dosn't have time to cool in a chamber like a bolt gun)

You can always make a dummy round from a spent case and see if it chambers - or not

my dpms .260 & 308 both need small base dies & full lenght sizing
 
There is zero benefit to neck sizing only versus a sizing with a full length die that has been properly setup to bump the shoulder .001-.0015 in bolt guns and .003 in semi autos, the negative of neck sizing only is ammo that won't chamber, which will require, anyone, Bueller, Bueller.........
 
try it and find out. main problem if it will not fit you will not have the force of the bolt handle to cam it in. with a bolt gun i can feel the brass starting to get to big. an ar 15 your first sign may be brass stuck in the chamber with the next round ruined from feeding into the back of it. i was collet sizing for my ar 15 and had this happen
 
The only benefit is that you don't work the brass as hard, I guess this could be mitigated by annealing. FL sizing does work the brass pretty hard doesn't it?
 
I think you're over thinking it. FL size and rock on.
 
I was told that I had to full length size when I am prepping brass for a gas gun by several guys. If I am prepping brass that is and will only be shot out of the same rifle why can't I just NS?? I did NS some of the brass from that rifle and it feeds and ejects just fine. I can't see how it would be a problem since it would be fireformed to that chamber just like a bolt gun right?
I wanted to ask here before I went ahead and loaded the neck sized brass for that rifle.

Neck sizing is overrated. A properly setup FL die will insure proper functioning, the brass will last just as long and the load will be just as accurate. Neck sizing can be tolerated for a few reloading cycles with a bolt action due to the caming ability of the bolt action to chamber and extract. A semiauto, pump or leveraction does not have that caming ability, so requires FL sizing.
 
Sure you can get away with neck sizing for your semiauto. Just dont come here later blaming the gun or the ammo when you kaboom your rifle. Theres plenty of info on any given reloading manual as to why that is a no-no.
 
You can't even get away with just neck sizing on a bolt gun for very long.

I disagree with this statement. When I have dedicated brass for one bolt rifle which is all quality Lapua brass I have got <-+> 30 loadings by neck sizing only.
I have had to trim but not very often maybe once or twice during that lifespan.
 
Neck sizing is overrated. A properly setup FL die will insure proper functioning, the brass will last just as long and the load will be just as accurate. Neck sizing can be tolerated for a few reloading cycles with a bolt action due to the caming ability of the bolt action to chamber and extract. A semiauto, pump or leveraction does not have that caming ability, so requires FL sizing.

what do you mean by a properly set up FL die?? Are there some that are better than others? I use a regular old Lee deluxe kit for .223 should I be using something better?
 
Hornady sells a Headspace Gauge, use it to measure the fired DECAPPED cases from your rifle, adjust the FL die to bump the shoulder .001-.0015 for bolt actions and .003 for semi autos, the instructions that come with all FL dies are best used for emergency toilet paper
 
I disagree with this statement. When I have dedicated brass for one bolt rifle which is all quality Lapua brass I have got <-+> 30 loadings by neck sizing only.
I have had to trim but not very often maybe once or twice during that lifespan.

I hate to pop your bubble, but if you knew the proper way to set up a FL die, your brasss would have lasted JUST as long. There is NOTHING but trouble inside a neck sizing die. There are no answers to your accuracy questions there. Neck sizing is literally a long defunct and antiquated brainfart from the 50's BR crowd.

No matter how long I stay away, the subjects never seem to change.
 
Hornady sells a Headspace Gauge, use it to measure the fired DECAPPED cases from your rifle, adjust the FL die to bump the shoulder .001-.0015 for bolt actions and .003 for semi autos, the instructions that come with all FL dies are best used for emergency toilet paper

I don't understand how you mean to adjust the die, unless my die is one that is non-adjustable. except adjusting the height of the decapping pin.


post images
 
Adjust the big nut on the big threads. That controls the amount of shoulder bump if it is a FL die. You are getting good advice here and apparently ignoring it. Even the BR crowd FL sizes now.
 
Adjust the big nut on the big threads. That controls the amount of shoulder bump if it is a FL die. You are getting good advice here and apparently ignoring it. Even the BR crowd FL sizes now.

I never asked a question about FL sizing for my bolt guns. I have thought NS was the way to go since I started handloading about a year ago and never had an issue so didn't ask. I just bought 2 semi's a 308 and a 223 so this is the first I have started HL with them.
I always thought to FL size you ran the case all the way into the die? Is this not correct?
 
You adjust the height that the die screws into the press.

When you fire a new case, the shoulder pushes forward a bit (.002-.007" or so-- depends on specific setup and headspace), and the walls push out a bit (increase diameter). If you bottom your die out to hit the ram/case-holder on your press, then you are resizing the case almost all the way back to "new" size. Each cycle, the case expands, then is resized back to new. That's stretching the brass forward and out, then squishing it back down to size. It will cause the brass to flow forward, and you case walls will grow thinner and longer (and you have to trim your cases). Eventually they will rupture because they're so thin.

The trick is to measure the headspace change (how far forward the shoulder moves) between new brass and fired brass. Then you slowly, incrementally spin the entire die into the press, checking the headspace of the fired case each time you adjust, until the headspace becomes .001-.002" less than when it was fired. This minimizes the resizing, and thus, the expansion that happens between each cycle. The brass will get thinner at a slower rate than a complete FL size, but the .001-.002" set-back is enough to allow reliable fit/function without sticky-bolts or having to beat things with a hammer. You get greatly increased brass life, to boot.
 
It would not be the best way. You need to have some way to gauge "shoulder bump". As someone said, .003 is about correct for a semi.
You could get a Wilson gauge or find some other way. Several options. Be safe.
 
I disagree with this statement. When I have dedicated brass for one bolt rifle which is all quality Lapua brass I have got <-+> 30 loadings by neck sizing only.
I have had to trim but not very often maybe once or twice during that lifespan.

Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. It's the times you can't that bite you. I have had this happen in as little as three firings. It only takes one case.
 
I never asked a question about FL sizing for my bolt guns. I have thought NS was the way to go since I started handloading about a year ago and never had an issue so didn't ask. I just bought 2 semi's a 308 and a 223 so this is the first I have started HL with them.
I always thought to FL size you ran the case all the way into the die? Is this not correct?

Just because you use a full length resizing die, it doesn't mean you have to bottom it out and totally resize it. You can set a full length die to partially (minimally) resize cases or "bump" the shoulder back. Its using a FL die to size the neck and push the shoulder back just enough for smooth feed/function.
 
Thanks guys I understand about partial length resizing now. That's what you guys were talking about "bumping the neck" I didn't even realize that could/should be done.
 
Can I get away with just neck sizing on my semi-auto?

If you don't know enough to neck size you probably shouldn't be neck sizing.
 
Anyone can run a case up into a NS die!!??

But *why*?

Neck sizing is for people trying to make exceedingly tight fitting brass for custom chambers. When you chamber a round in a benchrest gun, it feels different - there is no perceptible slop, not even a little bit. I have a BR rifle that does not need *any* sizing. I can just take the cases, refill, and seat another bullet on top and I'm good to go (usually! - every once in a while, you get a problem, which is why this is a bad idea). I now full length size even for this rifle.

How do I get away with not sizing? Stupidly tight tolerances. There is .001" diametrical clearance between a loaded round and the chamber neck. The brass literally has nowhere to go. Turned necks are of course a requirement for this sort of thing.

But even in benchrest this madness is unnecessary. My rifle was built around 14 years ago when people were experimenting with this sort of thing (I don't shoot it much - benchrest didn't really stick with me, but I do take it out of the safe for a spin now and then). These days, even the benchrest guys full length size. They may use custom dies and voodoo when they do it, but it turns out that hyper-tight tolerances aren't all they're cracked up to be in the first place. Tight and crooked is worse than loose and straight, as they say. (That's the theory at least). And there is also the safety factor - .001" on the neck is not to be fooled with. It's a benchrest only sort of thing. None of this shoot in the desert and run 500 rounds through it without cleaning stuff.

All in all, the neck size only experiment was a failure. The way forward is full length sizing the minimum amount required for proper function. 1 to 2 thous for a bolt gun, 3 to 4 for a semi.
 
Last edited:
what do you mean by a properly set up FL die?? Are there some that are better than others? I use a regular old Lee deluxe kit for .223 should I be using something better?

It's not about the brand of die. Nor is it about just reading the directions. Those directions are to resize brass so it will fit into any chamber. What you want to do is set up the die to fit into only your chamber. How you go about doing that is you need a headspace comparator or headspace micrometer. Take some brass that has been fired in your chamber and unsized. Use the comparator or micrometer to measure the actual headspace of your chamber. The die is infinitely adjustable via the threads on it. Screw the resizing die until is just touches the shellholder and then unscrew is a quarter turn. Now you have set the FL die to partially size. Run one of those cases into the die, then check the headspace. Screw the die down a little at at time until you bump the shoulder back 0.001-0.002" for bolt actions and 0.003-0.004" for semiautos. Once the die is set, lock the lockring down. Your brass will last longer and you'll get 100% functioning.


this place is really becoming barfcom......
 
People used to tell me to neck size only for better accuracy. I tried that, and didn't notice any difference in the size of my groups. Then my bolt started getting really hard to close. I went back to full length resizing and have never looked back. I'd think that neck sizing only would really be asking for problems in a gas gun.
 
I see what you guys are saying now about the case growing too long to have proper headspace, it makes sense.
 
Can I get away with just neck sizing on my semi-auto?

I see what you guys are saying now about the case growing too long to have proper headspace, it makes sense.
Not exactly: It's the rifle that has the headspace. It's the dimension of the shoulder of the case to the datum line that you are not controlling when you only neck size.
 
Last edited:
Yes Grahm if the case is too long for the headspace of the rifle the bolt will be hard to cam closed or even close at all. My bolt gun was reamed with extremely tight HS. Just enough for the bolt to have some resistance against the GO-Guage. A benchrest builder set up my tac rifle.
 
Tight is relative to your brass. Shoot a round through your chamber and you now have a tight chamber as far as that piece of brass is concerned. That's why we bump autoloader brass more than bolt brass -autoloaders are not as tolerant of small or zero clearances.

Likewise, there is no benefit to a reloader gained from having a minimum-headspace chamber. (I'm not sure there is a benefit to anyone, but you might be able to come up with a case where it's helpful with some factory/military rounds). You will still have to bump your brass back the required amount every time - where you start from is irrelevant.
 
It depends on your rifle. I have a M1 that I fire new KA ammo then neck size that brass two more firings then after that I have to fl size after that. The fired brass slides right on no need to work it more. On my AR's brass fills out on the first firing.
 
NO, NEVER. For a auto-loader always FLS all brass. I got a stuck case in my Bernelli R1 once never happens when you FLS.

Rich L