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Can see heartbeat bounce crosshairs a lot. Issue with the stock (PRS)?

jdknotts1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Shooting a buddies GAP-10 and I'm seeing a large jump in the crosshairs, consistent with my heartbeat, when I am at respiratory pause. When I break the shot, and feel my heartbeat during the break, it is continuously pulling my shots off. The guy that owns the rifle said the PRS stock translates a lot of the heartbeat into the gun. Anyone else have this issue with the PRS? Or is this a "me" problem that can be corrected through applying better fundamentals?
 
What position were you shooting from? And what were the rifle and your body resting on?

HRF
 
Can see heartbeat bounce crosshairs a lot. Issue with the stock (PRS)?

Seriously?!

You are seeing your heartbeat affect the rifle and you have a stock that accentuates the problem, so your heartbeat during the trigger break 'pulls' your shots 'off'?!

Think again.
 
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I have a very strong heartbeat and don't have this problem. It is strong enough that if i stand still You will see my heartbeat flutter my shirt.

Sent from GS3 Synergy
 
Can see heartbeat bounce crosshairs a lot. Issue with the stock (PRS)?

Pepe LePew's heart bounced clear out of his chest. And it was never a problem for his long range precision marksmanship.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I am quite new to this type of shooting, hence why I put it in the "Basic Marksmanship" section.

Yes, I can see my heartbeat bounce my crosshairs pretty good. And I was looking for some constructive ideas as to why. Maybe putting too much cheek pressure? Maybe too tense?

I am shooting off of an Atlas bi-pod prone with rear bag support.

23,000+ posts? Is this how you get it by bashing the noob? Man I need to get good so I can bash everyone and get my post count up. Maybe then I can be a cool kid....
 
Humor, is what it calls itself, no? I used to have a similar problem when shooting prone: my whole body would beat like a drum as it lifted off the ground, up & down, in & out. Unfortunately, this never happens anymore & neither can I shoot prone. Or any other "position"...sigh. If you count 23,000+ posts on your digits, how many limbs do you have? (Caution, Trick Question) Actually, the less posts you have, the cooler you are...460 aliass's could get you the same post count but no one would know...knife to the carotid easier, same result; knife to heart could hit rib, then prone would be impossible! Think, men, think!
 
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If you read between the lines, it's clearly a YOU problem.

Yes you're too tense, not it is not the stock's fault, or the bipod, or the rear bag or any other part of the rifle.

You're not relaxed, you could benefit from formal instruction, you might be holding you're breath, gripping the stock too tight, the list is long, and really you already know this is a me problem.
 
Shooting a buddies GAP-10 and I'm seeing a large jump in the crosshairs, consistent with my heartbeat, when I am at respiratory pause. When I break the shot, and feel my heartbeat during the break, it is continuously pulling my shots off. The guy that owns the rifle said the PRS stock translates a lot of the heartbeat into the gun. Anyone else have this issue with the PRS? Or is this a "me" problem that can be corrected through applying better fundamentals?

If I have had too much coffee, walked a steep hill or am a little tensed up, when laying prone, I definitely can see my heart beat on the reticle. It doesn't move enough to really affect my shooting but it is there and has nothing to do with my stock, bi-pod or gun, it's all me. If I get my chest a little off the ground it lessens it, but then I am not as solid as I like. More practice and a little instruction will probably take care of your problem, either that or have your doctor prescribe medication:)
 
Progress! I like it.

I pretty much knew it was a me problem. And the whole idea was to figure it out through everyone's experience. Hell for all I know its an easy thing to remedy.

If I can't figure something out on my own, I don't mind asking. No matter how stupid it sounds...

Also, one of the things that came to mind when I originally posted this was I've heard of guys actually breaking the shot between heartbeats. That may be total bullshit but it was in the back of my head.
 
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jdknotts,

I have experienced the same thing shooting off a bench with a rifle with HUGE magnification.
I shoot with some benchrest guys and they all have these Nightforce scopes with 40+ magnification. If I shoot their rifles at short distances and have the magnification cranked up, I see it.

I'm no doctor, but I assume that I have a vein/artery running in my shoulder pocket where I hold the rifle. Depending on what I'm wearing, I can pick up some movement in the sight picture. When I am experiencing this, I will simply move the rifle around in my shoulder pocket until I do not see it. Sometimes I can get rid of it, sometimes I cannot. Doing this is probably not technically perfect, but it does work sometimes.

Granted, I only experience this when trying to shoot a tiny group at 100 yards and I am using a rifle with huge magnification. It is probably always there, I just don't see it on normal magnification. I doubt it has anything to do with the stock like your friend says. The reason I say this is: I used to own a SASS with a PRS and I never experienced this with that rifle.

Try not to cram the stock into your shoulder pocket so hard. Doing this may help.
 
Left ventrical hypertrophy, common in endurance athletes and obese people, can cause a higher stroke volume causing a more perceivable "pulse" sensation. Stress, emotional or physical straining, is more likely your culprit. One would have a pull a riflestock pretty hard, through the clavicle, to feel the brachiocephalic artery. More likely the pressure is from the carotid.

One could always try heroin or vagal maneuvers...less ideal option when shooting though.

Basically, get instruction or tweak your position until it's gone.
 
It's my rifle and I have the same problem with it, so does everyone else who shoots it. Maybe it needs to be doused in pigs blood, I don't know. I'm putting a different stock on it when Knotts is done with it. I've shot enough to know the problem is unique to something with this gun, and I can only guess that the narrow PRS stock has something to do with it.

Give the guy a break, he'll out shoot most of you keyboard commandos any day.

LL, a knife to the chest??? Really?
 
I'm sure it's the rifle because you guys are the first to use a PRS stock on a GAP10, so clearly you found the fatal flaw Magpul & GAP missed. Let this serve as a warning don't anyone buy a PRS.

Anytime you want to shoot against this keyboard commando let me know, two free slots to Cup when you're ready. But if you lose you pay double the cost each. I'll eat the front end but you have to win not to lose it all on back.
 
What's your deal? The guy is a begginer looking for advice. He's shooting his first long range competition this weekend at the peacemaker and is excited to get in to the sport. You guys hammer him for asking a question in the basic section of the forum? Why? Maybe the gun doesn't fit him well, no one was slamming GAP or saying the PRS is flawed.

He's a pro in another shooting sport and is helpful to anyone looking to improve in that area. What good are you doing by being rude to someone new to long range shooting?

LL, you will beat me at your match, no doubt. Congratulations. Want to play a different game?

It's your house, and you've never been shy about running it the way you want to. I've just never understood the need to chastise someone for asking a question they feel is legit. It doesn't do the community any good.
 
If you want a serious answer, maybe begin by asking the question in a serious way. And looking, you're the one calling people names...

The real answer is, tension is likely cause but he knew this up front. We can't see through the computer to diagnose what he might be doing wrong, it's impossible. So how the Fuck do you expect someone to answer? Aside from saying it's something you're doing.

If you, him or whoever is truly a professional you don't start off blaming the gun. Especially when hundreds are shooting the same set up. Professionals are smarter than that as there is a lot possibilities that don't involve the stock type. If you really believed it was the PRS the simple fix is some rubber, moleskin or something to put between the stock and your cheek. 50 Cent solution to diagnose the problem.

Try reading your own post before stepping in it, you're pissed because he's your buddy and it's your rifle so you came out of the gate attacking. Don't like it too fucking bad, the answer is basically impossible to say other than, the professional opinion is, it's not the stock. Big boy rules ramjet, you jumped and got the response you deserved.
 
LL... You and I know each other, it has been a few years, but we got along fine face to face. I've always been a promoter of the Hide and Rifles Only because of the constructive advice and professionalism that the forum is held to. The way this thread jumped off took me by surprise and yes, pissed me off because I'm trying to grow the sport, not push people away from it.

I've learned more than once that tone is way too tough to interpret across the internet, I guess this is just another one of those experiences. No point in continuing to roll in the mud. I should have put a little emoticon behind my keyboard commando statement to put everyone at ease. The comment wasn't directed at anyone specifically, my apologies if you took it that way.
 
Fair enough,

try putting some 1/4" rubber matting like a mouse pad on the stock/cheek. See if it makes a difference. Think straight back on the pistol grip and don't "grip" it. More rearward and less hold it's not a handgun. The support hand pulling the stock into shoulder pocket.
 
You really own this forum? haha. I can see why it's so inviting to new guys. I feel so comfortable asking noobie questions about LR shooting now. Maybe you should make another thread called "Sniper's Hide Stupid Questions for Dummies" I would've put it there to satisfy the trolls….

Fact is, as far as I know, there are forgiving rifles, pistols, and every accessory to name. Some are easier to use, get used to, and adapt to. Some are not.

There is no way in hell I would ever mock, ridicule, or otherwise make someone feel stupid on the range of a 3-gun match asking me even the most outlandish question. Hopefully we run into each other one day so I can ask you a really stupid question. I can think of a few at this very moment…..
 
Josh, a buddy sent me this thread, no worries, we all have some days that are better than others.
There's a ton of knowledge here so shake it off, don't take it personally and stick around.

BTW, followed your link...that wasn't you that crashed running was it?
 
Man, how did I miss this thread? I laughed, I cried, I laugh cried, I even spit out the grape Kool-aid I was drinking while I was eating a jelly filled doughnut.

JdKnotts1 and Mberry223, don't listen to anything thats been said in this thread, just listen to me and I will show you the way. Don't believe me? I don't blame you for being skeptical, I would be too. So I tell ya what I'm gonna do as a show of good faith. JdKnotts1, send that weapon to me and I will send you a different weapon back that is guaranteed to be heartbeat resistant.

Mberry223, you will thank me once Jdknotts1 gives the weapon I am going to give him in exchange for yours ,back to you and you see for yourself how well it performs. And just because I like you for coming here and sticking up for JDknotts1 like any good wingman would do for a bro, I'm gonna throw you a little bit of advice for free to help you out even more. I couldn't help but notice your icon photo. Get your feet up closer to your ass on exit, you have them up in a basic neutral position. They need to be up on your ass as much as possible when you dive out and are still on the hill. Once you're off the hill, that leg position if fine but while on the hill you need to try and kick your own ass with your heels, especially when you have a rear mounted ruck on. Do that and it'll help you from going vertical, ass over tea kettle on exit like you are in the photo. Plus all your bros will be impressed when you totally fly the exit like a stud. :D

See now, isn't this great? We're all coming together and getting along. Man, I love you guys and this thread. :D :D
 
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Man, how did I miss this thread? I laughed, I cried, I laugh cried, I even spit out the grape Kool-aid I was drinking while I was eating a jelly filled doughnut.

JdKnotts1 and Mberry223, don't listen to anything thats been said in this thread, just listen to me and I will show you the way. Don't believe me? I don't blame you for being skeptical, I would be too. So I tell ya what I'm gonna do as a show of good faith. JdKnotts1, send that weapon to me and I will send you a different weapon back that is guaranteed to be heartbeat resistant.

Mberry223, you will thank me once Jdknotts1 gives the weapon I am going to give him in exchange for yours ,back to you and you see for yourself how well it performs. And just because I like you for coming here and sticking up for JDknotts1 like any good wingman would do for a bro, I'm gonna throw you a little bit of advice for free to help you out even more. I couldn't help but notice your icon photo. Get your feet up closer to your ass on exit, you have them up in a basic neutral position. They need to be up on your ass as much as possible when you dive out and are still on the hill. Once you're off the hill, that leg position if fine but while on the hill you need to try and kick your own ass with your heels, especially when you have a rear mounted ruck on. Do that and it'll help you from going vertical, ass over tea kettle on exit like you are in the photo. Plus all your bros will be impressed when you totally fly the exit like a stud. :D

See now, isn't this great? We're all coming together and getting along. Man, I love you guys and this thread. :D :D

WOW. Thanks for the advice. Can I have cool velcro call sign patch like yours when you send me your heartbeat resistant rifle replacement? I promise I'll replace my avatar with it. What does P03 mean??? Is that something really cool too??? The one I have says Z01. Is that better, or worse???

The photo wasn't from the ramp, it's a still taken from a video. Well in to transition there.
 
When you start shooting really high level competion, heart beat and pulse rate come into play. One learns how to moderate heart beat throught breathiing and psychological training. Try shooting a perfect at 50 feet small bore. Lay three targets on top of each other and see ten holes.
 
Cause you're constricting yourself. That's part of the reason you wear a thick jacket. It's physical pressure on the body.

Laying prone with no sling has nothing to do with shooting 3 position slung, spinning it to pretend it does is beyond misleading.

But if it helps you justify your point, spin away.
 
WOW. Thanks for the advice. Can I have cool velcro call sign patch like yours when you send me your heartbeat resistant rifle replacement? I promise I'll replace my avatar with it. What does P03 mean??? Is that something really cool too??? The one I have says Z01. Is that better, or worse???

The photo wasn't from the ramp, it's a still taken from a video. Well in to transition there.


You seem like a good dude, I like you. So yes, when I send you the heartbeat resistant rifle I'll throw in a custom made velcro backed call sign patch for you, but you can't have one like mine seeing how you already have one of your own. The one I'll send you will have a heart shape in front of your Z01 so you don't have to completely change up your handle, like this ♡Z01 :D
 
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You seem like a good dude, I like you. So yes, when I send you the heartbeat resistant rifle I'll throw in a custom made velcro backed call sign patch for you, but you can't have one like mine seeing how you already have one of your own. The one I'll send you will have a heart shape in front of your Z01 so you don't have to completely change up your handle, like this ♡Z01 :D

Thanks! I'll wear it with pride.

Best day ever!
 
When you start shooting really high level competion, heart beat and pulse rate come into play. One learns how to moderate heart beat throught breathiing and psychological training. Try shooting a perfect at 50 feet small bore. Lay three targets on top of each other and see ten holes.

Holy crap, the 3p smallbore gauntlet has been thrown down, son! Well played, sir - talk about upping the ante in the middle of a call-sign fight! I can't wait to see what happens in this thread next!
 
Also, could someone explain for us non-military types who won the call-sign fight?
 
Erud,
erkenne dich selbst.

Ridiculous shooting technique questions?
Unsolicited parachute lessons?
3P smallbore challenges?
Veiled foreign language internet half-threats?!?

This thread really does have it all.

2rzat6g.jpg
 
jdknotts1, also, your really not that special, I too got beat up and harassed as a newbie, seems like a ritual but hey so what if you ask a dumb question, to me that shows your not thinking you're a know-it-all! So stay the course!!

And again, was that you that crashed while running?

P03, you know I love and appreciate your support and I want to respectfully share that mberry223 is a humble man that continues to serve this nation. I know him, I've shot rockets and hunted with him. I'm not here to defend him but simply to suggest his involvement in posting here runs deeper than the www can convey.
 
I'm really surprised at how this whole thing has turned out. I've been reading and posting on the Hide for over 10 years now and I thought I had a pretty good feel for the group here. It's certainly grown well beyond what it was in the beginning and there have been shifts in behavior along with that growth. It's to be expected, I get it.

The snarkiness of this thread has certainly hit me a little harder than it should because I know the guy asking the question and a few of the guys answering in what I consider less than helpful ways. I point people towards the Hide to learn, they certainly have the opportunity to learn more here than I could ever teach them. The journey towards figuring out "what reticle should I get" will lead people to learning a whole lot more than me telling them to buy brand X with these options. Answering the same question day after day will wear on anyone's nerves, I get it, that's why I don't post a whole lot.

My other issue is that the Hide has always represented sort of a brotherhood to me. Again, growth has impacted the size of that brotherhood and like all families, we have our problems. I do not care for it when people speak to each other on forums in a lesser way than they would in person. If a stupid question was asked by someone next to you on the firing line, would you be snarky, or helpful?

Several people on here are very accomplished in some form or another and have earned respect, you never know who you are talking to on the internet. One of the best shooters I know went to college in Kentucky on a small bore shooting scholarship. I take the opportunity to learn from him just as readily as I take the opportunity to learn from Jacob, Frank, or David. Why would anyone in the collective shooting community lash out at someone who is excelling in another form? It's petty, and beneath what I would call a professional to act in that manner. Learn what you can, where and when you can, never miss an opportunity to improve yourself or a brother.

I don't have any clout here. There's no real reason for anyone to honor a request I make, but if I could ask something of the Hide, collectively, it would be that you treat folks with some modicum of respect. At least as much as you'd give the 16 year old kid next to you on at the range who is shooting grandpa's hunting rifle past 100 yards for the first time and thinks it’s the coolest thing he's ever done. We were all "that guy" at some point. If you'll notice my signature line, it's been the same for several years and I try to live my professional life in a way that reflects on that statement.

Hope you all have a good weekend and that my post comes across sincerely, exactly as I intended it to.
 
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I'm really surprised at how this whole thing has turned out. I've been reading and posting on the Hide for over 10 years now and I thought I had a pretty good feel for the group here. It's certainly grown well beyond what it was in the beginning and there have been shifts in behavior along with that growth. It's to be expected, I get it.

The snarkiness of this thread has certainly hit me a little harder than it should because I know the guy asking the question and a few of the guys answering in what I consider less than helpful ways. I point people towards the Hide to learn, they certainly have the opportunity to learn more here than I could ever teach them. The journey towards figuring out "what reticle should I get" will lead people to learning a whole lot more than me telling them to buy brand X with these options. Answering the same question day after day will wear on anyone's nerves, I get it, that's why I don't post a whole lot.

My other issue is that the Hide has always represented sort of a brotherhood to me. Again, growth has impacted the size of that brotherhood and like all families, we have our problems. I do not care for it when people speak to each other on forums in a lesser way than they would in person. If a stupid question was asked by someone next to you on the firing line, would you be snarky, or helpful?

Several people on here are very accomplished in some form or another and have earned respect, you never know who you are talking to on the internet. One of the best shooters I know went to college in Kentucky on a small bore shooting scholarship. I take the opportunity to learn from him just as readily as I take the opportunity to learn from Jacob, Frank, or David. Why would anyone in the collective shooting community lash out at someone who is excelling in another form? It's petty, and beneath what I would call a professional to act in that manner. Learn what you can, where and when you can, never miss an opportunity to improve yourself or a brother.

I don't have any clout here. There's no real reason for anyone to honor a request I make, but if I could ask something of the Hide, collectively, it would be that you treat folks with some modicum of respect. At least as much as you'd give the 16 year old kid next to you on at the range who is shooting grandpa's hunting rifle past 100 yards for the first time and thinks it’s the coolest thing he's ever done. We were all "that guy" at some point. If you'll notice my signature line, it's been the same for several years and I try to live my professional life in a way that reflects on that statement.

Hope you all have a good weekend and that my post comes across sincerely, exactly as I intended it to.
+1
 
jdknotts1, also, your really not that special, I too got beat up and harassed as a newbie, seems like a ritual but hey so what if you ask a dumb question, to me that shows your not thinking you're a know-it-all! So stay the course!!

And again, was that you that crashed while running?

P03, you know I love and appreciate your support and I want to respectfully share that mberry223 is a humble man that continues to serve this nation. I know him, I've shot rockets and hunted with him. I'm not here to defend him but simply to suggest his involvement in posting here runs deeper than the www can convey.

Josh, a buddy sent me this thread, no worries, we all have some days that are better than others.
There's a ton of knowledge here so shake it off, don't take it personally and stick around.

BTW, followed your link...that wasn't you that crashed running was it?

This thread really took off! I'm ok with a bit of banter. I like to give it at times so I don't mind taking it.

And fortunately the Sasquatch that took the fall was not me, but a friend from work. I tried to get him involved in 3-gun and he took a fall, separating and breaking his shoulder. He was out of work for 4 months! I almost felt bad… Almost. We were waiting for the EMS to arrive and I told him, "you know this will be on Facebook and Youtube before you even get to the hospital right?" haha. He was a good sport
 
Mark,

Thanks for a grounding, down to earth post.

We have grown considerably, and with that growth comes a lot of repetition, and a certain amount of snarky-ness due to the years of constantly rehashing the same old topics. Unfortunately not everyone who has stepped through the doors comes here for the same reason, so it's difficult to assess the true intensions of the poster. When questions are posted in a highly vague manner, or presented in way that starts off pointing the finger at the equipment, you have to expect a fair amount of snark. People generally are looking for a shortcut, and realistically speaking, 90% of the shooters out there are no where near as good as they think they are. So people tend to dismiss these questions, especially when the posters hints at the knowledge that it is "probably them". Simply reversing the question, saying How do I adjust "me" first and is there something else I can do to the rifle to help, is much different than saying, the rifle is jacked and messing with me.

The trend in shooting is to "buy" a shortcut, they want to first purchase success and work on their personal flaws later. (If they are even willing to admit they have any) I get that, it's the nature of the business. So when it "appears" and I say that knowing nothing about the guy on the other side of the screen, they are looking to blame equipment. We tend to turn off.

Being perfectly frank, if i was at a range seeing someone like you described, I would do everything to avoid them. So when you say, how would you treat that person on the range, the answer is, not at all... I would avoid that person and why I use a private range. It could be something as simple as a basic mumbling under their breath, to a boisterous rant about the PRS stock messing up their shooting. That would be my queue to leave. In a classroom situation it's a different story, when people actively seek instruction and are serious about it you know. Well then, sure you do everything you can to assess the problem and fix it. But face to face is a completely different animal than the internet. You see we can't see what the shooter sees, and we can't answer that type of question without a certain amount of detail. When that detail lacks, snark replaces what we don't have.

Being in the military as you are, I was, many of us have, you also have to expect a certain amount of humor. Some harmless ribbing. How you handle that jackassing says a lot about who we are dealing with on the other side of the screen. Do you get mad and storm off, or do you say, "ya maybe that isn't worded right, try this"... That is part of the process, we have very limited tools, while it may not be the best method, it's the one people tend to fall back on. It's the internet after all and still 75% entertainment if not 95%. This is a shooting site, feelings are not being coddled here. If you go back to our classes, I am sure the day had it fair share of horsing around. Certainly there were jokes putting someone down. We all laugh and get to work. Ya, you got me, next. We're both pretty short, that alone was endless hours of fun for everyone. If it bothered you, you never would have moved forward.

Do we jump the gun, isolate people looking for real answers, yes we do. It's also the nature of the business. And because the internet moves so fast we tend to forget it all by the next cup of coffee and move on to the next guy asking the next same old question. Some days we answer them to the best of our ability, some days we are looking to entertain ourselves and blow them off. Other days we are pissed off at the wife and take it out on the first dumb post we see. It's no different than real life... but get this, we don't know the person asking so it's not personal. Flipping the conversation is pretty easy, and more than once a day a guy will start off on one side of the coin and wind up on the other. But that is a two way street. You have to be willing to look beyond the text to what it is we might be keying on. Otherwise, every one gets riled, and a shit storm starts pissing in everyone's Cheerios.

Despite everything there are some solid answers here, the details are limited so the answer are very vague. But there are still answers here. You can focus on the snark, or choose to see it in a different way.

Yes, it's grown big here, 92,000+ registered, and 12 years of traffic... is it worth it. Absolutely. I tell people all the time, only 10% of this site is worth a damn, but with 2.7 Million posts, and that is not counting what was pruned, changed, deleted forever, that is a still a lot of really solid information. We move 4.5 Terabytes of data every month on here... 10% of that is a great transfer of knowledge.
 
Yes, this thread has had a strange start and response(s), which I would say isn't the typical norm for most threads around here. With that said, I see it as light hearted ribbing that happens in team rooms/ranges/break rooms when in a room full of sharks and someone bleeds in the water with a comment they make. Much like commo guys get flak about sun spots when they can't make comms. Hopefully no one has gotten seriously butt hurt over anything thats been said here, as I'm sure it was all light hearted banter, at least speaking for myself.
 
Neat thread. You can smell the testosterone and gonads in the room. Neanderthals do exist and I prefer their company. Something pure and honest about serious people with extensive knowledge and passion. The majority of people never experience it and wouldnt understand it and often in their ignorance they attack it.

OP pulse for me sucks when slung and sitting. It gives me appreciation for what the SEALS did off the fantail of the ship saving Capt Phillips. Dont really notice it prone. Only thing I could think causing it is your so bound up and tight. Are you trying to forcefully, physically, drive your bullet to the target? Let the powder and the rifle barrel do it. Think relax. Get the best NPA conditions will allow and breathe.

PS - What kind of shape are you in? Shooting is important and your health is more so. Any issues with high blood pressure? Im guessing you dont need to ride a Lark in competition and there is no unknown health issue that needs to be treated.


PPS - Just to clear I like estrogen and ovaries too. Its my go to for certain activities not covered on the Hide. Just saying, not protesting too much or anything.
 
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