Can you "shoot out" an Action?

[rustyinbend]

I've shot out a couple of barrels, and the issues are visible and easy to spot (fire-cracking, worn grooves, chamber bloat, inaccuracy, round-count, etc.). My hypothetical for you gurus out there is ... can you ever burn through an action to the point where re-barreling won't help, and if so ... what are the visible symptoms of a shot out action in a bolt action rifle? Not there personally, but a buddy asked me that question as he watched me mount a new barrel, and I honestly didn't know the answer.

 

[kcsmith]

Has anyone ever worn out an action?

Has anyone ever actually worn out an action from shooting so much? Dont think ive ever seen anyone talking about a worn action.

www.snipershide.com

This may have some answers

 

[spife7980]

It’s been advised that every few barrels you change out the firing pin spring to maintain full ignition power. No clue if that applies to modern day manufacturing or not.

You can shoot hot loads long enough to have lug setback as the things literally beat out of shape. But that’s not a shooting out caused, that’s abuse.

Other than that…

 

[Kadams1563]

I don’t know but I have fondled a surgeon with over 30k rounds fired and that thing was insanely slick feeling lol. Almost scary the way the boot opened and closed.

 

[diggler1833]

Isn't Jacob Bynum from Rifles Only on nearly his 30th barrel for his AI?

I think material, workmanship, and heat treatment would all possibly play a role if we were comparing actions to each other for longevity....but I've been through several barrels on a 700 myself and the only thing I've swapped during that time was the firing pin spring assembly (went to Gre-Tan) and trigger. * Not that I had parts failures, but I wanted to upgrade while I was redoing the barreled action anyway.

I don't know why most basic factory actions couldn't survive at least 10K rounds, and likely much more. I know that if I ever notice any play with the bolt closed that it is time for me to either get it to a good gunsmith for autopsy, or just hang that one up.

I have experienced this with revolvers. My dad gave me his 29-2 that he had put thousands of rounds through. Every round he ever shot though it was loaded to manual max. It took .004-worth of cylinder and yoke endshake bearings to get the slop out because that cylinder would just rock back and forth with it closed. If I ever get it to the point where it needs more attention than a few bearings, I'll have to send it to a real pro to get it fixed. So receiver stretch can happen to a revolver...so I don't know why you couldn't induce wear on a rifle action.

 

[6brshooter]

Yeah, Jacob had over 100k on his AI action. I'm sure some other modern custom actions could do that, doubt any factory action would have that longevity.

 

[Holliday]

I had a factory 308 Savage action with over 5k (of mostly warm to hot loads)and it showed no signs of excessive wear. I had no doubt that it could go another 5-10k easily. I do grease my lugs and clean them periodically.

 

[FredHammer]

I should think the only part most likely to need replacement would be the bolts if the faces were heavily pitted. Those can be cleaned up and returned square though I have seen.

 

[rustyinbend]

Good info ... (a) grease the lugs, (b) occasionally replace the firing pin spring, (c) swap barrels as necessary ... and (d) shoot it for life cuz actions don't wear out. That's the summary. Got it.

 

[Rob01]

Will let you know if I see it. I have my original 1993 700 that has had 9 .308 barrels on it and still going strong. Anywhere from around 6,000-10,000 rounds a barrel.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

You can shoot hot loads long enough to have lug setback as the things literally beat out of shape. But that’s not a shooting out caused, that’s abuse.

Other than that…

That’s what I was thinking. Frames of early S&W 29’s were stretched, by continuous max or beyond max loads in the early IHMSA days, and I am sure that if you pushed a bolt action beyond design ”working” limits, you could probably stretch it. That said, shooting loads well below even today’s, lawyer light, book loads should find an action lasting pretty much forever (as long is it was kept clean/lugs lubed/rust free)

 

[Frank Green]

Yeah, Jacob had over 100k on his AI action. I'm sure some other modern custom actions could do that, doubt any factory action would have that longevity.

It was around 10 years ago I think he already had 90k and change on it he told me. Has to be well past a 100k now.

 

[Ledzep]

We've got 1930's "Banner" Mauser and some old pre-64 Winchester actions in our accuracy lab that have been in use since the 60's.

If you keep the stress state in the action below the fatigue limit, theoretically they should last indefinitely or until hydrogen diffusion causes them to get brittle or whatever... Be a long time.

 

[Frank Green]

Unless there is some serious failure of some kind or blatant abuse the action and bolts should hold up pretty good. On a Remington type action and maybe some others... I would without even thinking about it throw in a new firing pin spring on some what of a regular basis because they can cause issues.

I know of a couple of rem. actions that are being used for testing ammo with ammo that is very stout and right now those actions combined have over 30k rounds on them already and just went into use like a year or two ago.

Other than thru attrition (combat losses) the military runs the guns a long time. I know right now there is a solicitation to replace bolt guns in Socom units as the ones they've been running have been in use since about since early 2015. So they are looking at replacing those coming next year.

Also the MSR rifles that they have been using for a long time as well and originally those guns where issued with 3 new barrels from the get go. The biggest problem with those guns is the lack of spare parts now. So I'm pretty sure those are also up for replacement but they've been using those guns for at least 10 years if not longer.

Hell they had old AW rifles in 338 Lapua that where used over in the sandbox. When they where pulled from service it wasn't because anything was wrong with them. I was told they where going to get cut up mostly due to they didn't have a gov't p/n or something silly like that. Myself and a couple of others who where involved with those guns begged and pleaded to save a few of them and we offered to pay for them but it didn't happen. All went under the chop saw!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Kadams1563]

I had a factory 308 Savage action with over 5k (of mostly warm to hot loads)and it showed no signs of excessive wear. I had no doubt that it could go another 5-10k easily. I do grease my lugs and clean them periodically.

The most notable detail is you dealt with ejection and extraction issues for 5k rounds lol.

 

[Holliday]

I have a Niedner 7 mm Mauser (commercial action)that was made in 1923. That action is tight and smooth as butter. No sign of excessive wear at all.

 

[Holliday]

The most notable detail is you dealt with ejection and extraction issues for 5k rounds lol.

Sorry to disappoint you but that rifle never once had a feed or ejection issue. I know Savage does not get a lot of love around here, and I understand why. But I must’ve been exceedingly lucky because that gun ran flawlessly and shot tight groups right out of the box, up until the day the barrel went south.

 

[FredHammer]

Sorry to disappoint you but that rifle never once had a feed or ejection issue. I know Savage does not get a lot of love around here, and I understand why. But I must’ve been exceedingly lucky because that gun ran flawlessly and shot tight groups right out of the box, up until the day the barrel went south.

View attachment 8294184

They do the job and they do it well when made right. Sadly, CS and manufacturing are fucking retarded! I’ve got 3 Savages and they all had feeding problems, but I fixed everyone of them with a simple bevel to the ejector on the side facing the firing pin hole. I spoke to Savage about this and the CS denied cycling/feeding issues…by doing so they waste a lot money on warranty returns.

Turns out Savage used to make the ejectors beveled, but for some stupid reason, decided to stop years ago.

Yours is a gem and I know you don’t have issues, but I just needed to vent to another Savage shooter!