Can you short stoke your bolt?

[jeffersonv]

I recall watching tryouts for Marine Scout Sniper on one of the cable channels and the show followed a small handful of America's finest up to and including the final testing. Out of the relatively small group, two of them failed because of short stroking the bolt while under the stress of the final testing. They were shooting variants of the standard M40 rifle based on the Remington 700 action.

I checked with my Remington 700 to see if I could duplicate the problem and I could.
I tried it with my FN SPR and I <span style="text-decoration: underline">could not</span> fail to feed by short stroking the bolt. By the time my bolt was far enough back to eject the empty shell it was far enough back to grab another round while cycling it forward.

I am getting myself into a position where I can start thinking about another custom build and I was considering the Surgeon 591 and the Big Horn actions.

Question:
For those of you who have the Surgeon and Big Horn actions, can you deliberately short stroke the bolt and end up with an empty chamber?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Thank you.

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

I guess I'll take that as a yes?

Or, maybe this isn't an issue to some?

I know how disrupting it can be when I forget to take my rifle off safety and I also know about press checking the chamber.

These Marines who flunked their training by short stroking the bolt got off easy. It was just training. Either way the impact was pretty negative.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

I've been able to short stroke a CRF action.

I'll say though, it's more of a dysfunction of the shooter not the rifle.

 

[338RUM runner]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

Short stroked myself once. LOL

 

[bm11]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

If you train yourself to cycle the bolt by stroking all the way to your bolt stop every single time, you won't have an issue. Train it until you can't get it wrong.

 

[njohn890]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

That was Army snipers on "Surviving the Cut" The M24 uses a long action reciever and magazine box so it is like loading a 308 into the space made for a 30-06 (or 300 WM) That extra unused length in the magazine box might be what makes the failure to pick up a round more common?

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

Good info njohn890.

My recollection kind of focuses on the bigger picture rather than the details for sure! Thanks for the correction.

Like I said, I could duplicate this problem with my R700.
I couldn't do it with my FN or my M70.

I am not buying into the training to avoiding this from happening. I saw it happen multiple times to those guys who train <span style="text-decoration: underline">hard</span>. I would much rather just avoid the situation all together.

I am really hoping the Surgeon or Big Horn don't have this problem but I'm not sure it will make or break my decision to go with one.

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

I youtubed Surviving the Cut: Army Sniper and it wasn't the show I was referring to.

I checked the one for Marine Snipers too. Still could not find it.

The one I saw has 2 soldiers failing the cut because of short stroking their bolt.

 

[Texar2]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

They failed to press check. They had short stroked the m24 long action on thier initial shots. I have never short stroked a 700 sa type rifle, but i dont baby the bolt either.

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

Not an issue for you evidently..

Hopefully it doesn't become one if firing under a stressful situation.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

It is physically possible to short stroke most kinds of bolt actions. The FN/Win 70 (pre-64) really the closest thing to an old Mauser you can get. The 'ejector' is a blade that runs through the left lug in a groove cut for it. By pulling the bolt back, the claw extracts the spent case which is not ejected until it comes clear to the rear of the action and comes in contact with the blade. The harder you bring it back the harder that blade will knock the spent case out of the action.

In the case of the post-'63 Wins, and Remington, and AR's there is a plunger type ejector that kicks the spent case out of the action as soon as it clears the metal of the action (R side).

I'm explaining this so you understand that, PHYSICALLY, you can short stroke ANY bolt action. How the Win 70/FN is typically short stroked is you stop the bolt when pulling it out to manually extract the case. That's so it doesn't go flying and give a 'brass flash' to give your position away. This happens on Remmy's just as well.

My point is, you need to cycle the bolt completely back to eject, and the way the magazine is loaded, you will pick up the next round by doing so. There is nothing wrong mechanically with either rifle. If you short stroke, there is an issue with the SHOOTER.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

It should never happen. You should wear out the bolt stop on your rifle. I've seen several competitors break bolt stops and have to use their cheek piece as the bolt stop. This is acceptable behavior because that motion should be quick to the point of being violent.

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

If I recall the show correctly, brass came out, bolt went forward, chamber was empty, soldier failed.

I can duplicate this problem with my Remmy.

I cannot do this with my win/fn actions.

I fully understand running the bolt so you don't have this problem and I have known and practiced this since my youth.
I also understand how to press check to verify you have a round chambered, though this should not be required right?

So OK.
I tried to focus on the action at this time. You don't want that to be my focus.

thanks anyways.

Moving on.

 

[bward]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

Shoot more and read/watch tv less and you will be surprised how much of a non issue your topic is.

 

[Blackbrush]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

Win/FN is superior in most ways.

If you want a high dollar/high quality version, buy a Dakota action which will fall nearly in line with the price of a Surgeon or the like.

 

[rusty815]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

I find that I can't short stroke my CRF rifles (my Ruger M77 is CRF and I have never been able to short stroke it), but some of my push feed rifles I can. One specific example is my 110, its a long action using short action cartridges, so the rifle ejects the case before it can go all the way back, so it doesn't catch the next round unless I pay attention to whether or not I pulled it all the way. All my other rifles I have never short stroked, though.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

Again, nothing wrong with either rifle mechanically. Short stroke caused by shooter.

 

[Texar2]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

Had a mauser chambered in .308 once and sometimes the cartridge would nose dive causing the bolt to ride over the rim and not chamber it. I think this could happen with any long action chambered for a short action caliber. A stronger follower spring fixed it.

 

[TGagnon]

Re: Can you short stoke your bolt?

I don't now how you would make a 700 do this but here is how to make a CRF action do what you want.
You start with an action designed for your cartridge choice. Have to adjust the magazine box so that you don't get failure to feeds caused by bolt over rides from a failure in the magazine box. Once you do that you can change out your ejector with a longer or shorter one depending on your cartridge dimensions. You want the action to not sling your brass out until it has already reached the rim of your next cartridge. This is fairly easy to set up and adjust on any CRF action such as the FN, Mauser, Winchester olds, or your custom actions such as dakota's or basically anything copying the mauser fixed ejector.

Edit for after thought: I could try it out on an upcoming 308 build that I am using a LA for. If I do I'll be sure to post it on here. Plus I got that bolt for free and I would just end up with an extra slot and roll pin holes in the receiver which doesn't really bother me as I can fill them.


I have considered making one of my 700 actions a fixed ejector but can't get myself to safely accept cutting a slot into the locking lugs.