Can you upgrade or build a custom 10/22 that shoots like a KIDD?

[HammerForged]

I got to shoot a KIDD 10/22 at a long range class. Someone had just gotten it and got it out during break. I had already ordered a Vudoo barrelled action, but that was so much fun to shoot. Maybe the most fun I have had since I first went shooting in college with a Marlin semiauto 22. I have 10/22 rifles, but that thing stacked them in one ragged hole at 50 yards as fast as I could shoot it.

No news there. But can you build that kind of accuracy with KIDD or Volquartzen (sp?) Parts? Or will it never really function 100% as well?

 

[oldrifleman]

You can, it’s like building an AR, but easier. That said like a high quality AR some feel that last 10% comes with a fully matched set of parts. I have 2 ( or rather my son and daughter each have one I bought) Kidd Super Grades and the are flawless shooters, both have been customized to fit the will of the user.

 

[Quick1]

I see this type of question a bunch, the question is why would you want to? If the answer is because you just like to tinker or build stuff, then great, have at it. If the answer is you are trying to get KIDD accuracy and quality on the cheap, then good luck, you get what you pay for. But KIDDs shoot the way they do and cost what they cost because as oldrifleman mentioned, you are getting matching parts from the same manufacturer which are being assembled by gunsmiths that know what they are doing. Buying a bunch of parts and putting them together may lead to a diamond that functions well and has great accuracy, but may also lead to nothing but a headache. For me, it is money well spent on a full KIDD build which will also have the support of the company if something does go wrong...that is why I have three of them.

 

[Big Phish]

I'd take my Ruger CSC since it be cheaper and not much needs to be done for a lot less money than Kidd. Nothing against Kidd though.

 

[MarkCZ]

Before going down the deep rabbit hole of building 10-22. Go to Kidd's web site, go to barreled action and build a rifle, and check the difference in the cost of building your gun. I did a complete barreled action $779.00, less the trigger. Now the big bite is the Kidd trigger, the 2 stage trigger start at $350. But, Kidd's 2 stage is the best 10-22 trigger made.
The Kidd rear anchor is the key to accuracy. The go to stock is a KRG Bravo, it works with the rear anchor. I have my SG in a Titan stock with Titan's rear anchor, that was before the Bravo.
If you go Kidd action go with the Supergrade.
Good luck

 

[MarkCZ]

If you want to build, a barrel is the start.

 

[oldfatguy]

My Kidd Super Grade is as accurate or better than my CZs bolt guns. And Kidd’s customer service is great.

OFG

 

[jps2486]

Throw that cheap piece of junk Ruger in the river and just buy a Kidd if you must.

 

[NewsShooter]

I've built a few, I like to build stuff and they shoot very very well for a 10/22. Two I built two for nephews that I shot a test target for after mounting the scope on them. At 25 yards with about 6 rounds down the barrel to zero I shot the test target, they were both essentially five shots into one hole with CCI SV. The kidd difference would be the trigger biggest difference. I think they were about $700 with scopes, mounts, bipods and a hard case, but that was over 10 years ago.

They're easy to put together, while the tang is nice I made a rear anchor using the cleaning hole that indexed the receiver. Brownells recievers are the cheapest, or a used Ruger. I would use a Feddersen bronze for something different and one of his barrels. I used JWH bolts, I got the nephews initials on the bolt. I pout them in Raptor stocks for the boys, these days I'd use a chassis or a bravo, though the Titan isn't bad.

Lots of info on Rimfire central about building them.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I'd take my Ruger CSC since it be cheaper and not much needs to be done for a lot less money than Kidd. Nothing against Kidd though.

In all honesty here, you most likely overpaid for what you have. Still a Ruger, any addons, your costs compound because of initial price.
I've had at least 5 of the hammer forged 20" Ruger target barrels and the wisest move for improved accuracy is an aftermarket barrel.
I don't own a Kidd SG, but have 2 reg models, first thing you notice is the lack of grinding sound when you rack the bolt, only gets better from there.

To the OP, you may not be like me, but if I shoot a semi rifle, it is always in my head that I have unlimited ammo in spare mags, and shoot accordingly. I limit my Kidd builds to 300 yards, even after ammo vetting, not that they can't do the job, I just have better platforms for the task.
Answer to your question, no doubt with trial and error you can build a rifle that duplicates Kidd performance. The path:

 

[Big Phish]

In all honesty here, you most likely overpaid for what you have. Still a Ruger, any addons, your costs compound because of initial price.
I've had at least 5 of the hammer forged 20" Ruger target barrels and the wisest move for improved accuracy is an aftermarket barrel.
I don't own a Kidd SG, but have 2 reg models, first thing you notice is the lack of grinding sound when you rack the bolt, only gets better from there.

To the OP, you may not be like me, but if I shoot a semi rifle, it is always in my head that I have unlimited ammo in spare mags, and shoot accordingly. I limit my Kidd builds to 300 yards, even after ammo vetting, not that they can't do the job, I just have better platforms for the task.
Answer to your question, no doubt with trial and error you can build a rifle that duplicates Kidd performance. The path:
View attachment 8358549

Sounds like you have never seen nor taken a look at these Custom Shop Competition models at all and they are not the as the hammer forged barrel variety which I do own also. They are both totally different and I purchased mine for $717 and have beaten a couple fellers with Kidd SG. If money not an option then by all means get that Kidd as they are the best on the market but dammit I am not paying upwards 2k for them where I can get better bolt action for in that price range.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Sounds like you have never seen nor taken a look at these Custom Shop Competition models at all and they are not the as the hammer forged barrel variety which I do own also. They are both totally different and I purchased mine for $717 and have beaten a couple fellers with Kidd SG. If money not an option then by all means get that Kidd as they are the best on the market but dammit I am not paying upwards 2k for them where I can get better bolt action for in that price range.

Sorry, I at times lump Ruger into a category. I've tried LVT, along with the old target models, and lately this one, 2024 US shooting team with an 18" target barrel, still a Ruger.

 

[Rider47]

"the question is why would you want to?"
Yes - the answer may at least in part be you are a tinkerer/builder, but another great reason is PRICE.
I have built and compete with two different 10/22's, none of which are "Kidd rifles". One has the wonderful Kidd SS Match bull barrel, the other a VQ SS muzzle weighted barrel and both have the wonderful Kidd two-stage triggers. This is all you really need from Kidd. The receiver, bolt etc. can be anything from factory Ruger to custom - I have both, one is not better than the other. With the right ammo, my PRS/NRL/TBR rifle is astoundingly accurate (wins matches). My stocks are laminates bought in a close-out for $39.95 each. But I have epoxy bedded the actions using large 3/4" diameter aluminum pillars.

 

[Big Phish]

That’s the thing about 1022’s is you build it however you want on your mind or buy a complete. I have never come across a bad shooting 1022 yet with the right ammo. Kids look a trophy wife btw. Kidd has the best triggers bar none as have a single stage in my hammer forge and Timmy in my CSC in grey birch chassis.

 

[Mark_Dorman]

Considering the OP purchased a Vudoo Barreled action, I doubt cost savings is a big factor. I could be wrong though.

@HammerForged I'm assuming you're like me and just enjoy putting things together and customizing to your own tastes and preferences. Like most others have said here, you can definitely build a 10/22 that is as accurate (if not more accurate/precise) and just as reliable as a Kidd.

In my experience (and most others), the Barrel and Trigger will have the biggest impact on accuracy/precision. The receiver and bolt will greatly affect reliability but definitely have a hand in accuracy/precision. 10/22's can be finicky so the good receiver will ensure the mags are seated and aligned correctly and bolt design will play a role in feeding. I started with a crappy Faxon receiver on mine and can attest to the headaches of a poorly made receiver. Countless feeding issue and massive barrel droop were the biggest issues.

If you want a mostly Kidd rifle anyways, I would consider going with their barreled action like @MarkCZ said. If you want to spend a little less but have similar quality, there are other good receivers you can pair with a Kidd barrel (or you can go with something like a Shilen or Lilja if budget allows). I've been very happy with my CST Centrix-ELR Receiver, but plenty of people will vouch for the quality of Volquartsen and Tactical Solutions. I paired my CST receiver with my Kidd 20 inch bull barrel and it's worked perfectly for me since upgrading from the Faxon. In all honesty though, there really isn't a good reason not to just get the full Kidd Barreled Action and Trigger unless you want to try something different like I did.

 

[Cowpokey]

Sounds like you have never seen nor taken a look at these Custom Shop Competition models at all and they are not the as the hammer forged barrel variety which I do own also. They are both totally different and I purchased mine for $717 and have beaten a couple fellers with Kidd SG. If money not an option then by all means get that Kidd as they are the best on the market but dammit I am not paying upwards 2k for them where I can get better bolt action for in that price range.

You beat other shooters.

Your Ruger CSC isn't anything special, certainly not on par with an average Kidd...average being the key, sure there may be some Kidd rifles that are below average rifles, but I doubt there are many. On the other hand, I'm sure there are a few above average "Ruger CSC" rifles...again, "a few" being key...they are limited to the sum of their parts, even hand selected to be part of a "CSC" build they are still just factory parts, and there isn't a Ruger factory trigger ever produced that will come close to Kidd, or Volquartsen...then add in the bolts, receivers and barrels, you're not getting the cream of the crop rifle just because it came from the Ruger Custom Shop.

 

[hlee]

If you want a Kidd, buy a Kidd. If you like to diy, buy a Kidd, then buy a Ruger 10/22 to upgrade…

 

[Big Phish]

You beat other shooters.

Your Ruger CSC isn't anything special, certainly not on par with an average Kidd...average being the key, sure there may be some Kidd rifles that are below average rifles, but I doubt there are many. On the other hand, I'm sure there are a few above average "Ruger CSC" rifles...again, "a few" being key...they are limited to the sum of their parts, even hand selected to be part of a "CSC" build they are still just factory parts, and there isn't a Ruger factory trigger ever produced that will come close to Kidd, or Volquartsen...then add in the bolts, receivers and barrels, you're not getting the cream of the crop rifle just because it came from the Ruger Custom Shop.

Ruger machine enn

You beat other shooters.

Your Ruger CSC isn't anything special, certainly not on par with an average Kidd...average being the key, sure there may be some Kidd rifles that are below average rifles, but I doubt there are many. On the other hand, I'm sure there are a few above average "Ruger CSC" rifles...again, "a few" being key...they are limited to the sum of their parts, even hand selected to be part of a "CSC" build they are still just factory parts, and there isn't a Ruger factory trigger ever produced that will come close to Kidd, or Volquartsen...then add in the bolts, receivers and barrels, you're not getting the cream of the crop rifle just because it came from the Ruger Custom Shop.

again you don’t know everything you talking about. Ruger does take a casted standard receiver and cherry pick a receiver for the CSC instead mills entire out of bar stock. Whatever Kidd fanboy but your mind is made up about it. You are wrong on what babble about a Ruger product that sound like you have nothing but hate for them. Only thing I didn’t care for is their triggers as I mentioned in the posts way above that you didn’t want to read. Too bad you helpless know it all.

 

[littlesister]

I got to shoot a KIDD 10/22 at a long range class. Someone had just gotten it and got it out during break. I had already ordered a Vudoo barrelled action, but that was so much fun to shoot. Maybe the most fun I have had since I first went shooting in college with a Marlin semiauto 22. I have 10/22 rifles, but that thing stacked them in one ragged hole at 50 yards as fast as I could shoot it.

No news there. But can you build that kind of accuracy with KIDD or Volquartzen (sp?) Parts? Or will it never really function 100% as well?

Lots of replies to your OP but the simple answer is Yes. You can build a 10/22 that will outshoot a Kidd Supergrade or Volquartsen. I have owned several Supergrades and one Volquartsen. While they are very accurate It is possible to build a gun that will outshoot them. If you doubt what I'm saying, just give Joe Chacon of Autobenchrest Association a call. I use Kidd and Volquartsen reciever parts but not their barrels. Their barrels are not the most accurate 10/22 barrels made. I've used Shilens 16.5 twist 20 in stainless barrel with 20 degree crown on my last 2 builds but there are other barrel makers that also make more accurate barrels than Kidd or Volquartsen.

 

[Tiger_Shilone]

Ruger did NOT take a cast standard receiver and cherry pick a receiver for the CSC. Instead they mill a receiver entirely out of bar stock. (with an integral 30 moa extended scope base)

Corrected spelling as your original text was not understandable….

Thanks for the info, nice to see Ruger up their quality game with a decently milled receiver finally. Pretty decent write up at rfc:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/thre...tition-tear-down-review-range-report.1153097/



As to the Op’s question—I like my Kidd supergrades accuracy to about 200 yds, then switch to a bolt action if going further as I personally do better with a bolt. Reliability is a whole different animal, my Kidds give me the least trouble of my 22 semi autos, but still have an unacceptable failure rate to me for match use.

 

[Cowpokey]

Ruger machine enn

again you don’t know everything you talking about. Ruger does take a casted standard receiver and cherry pick a receiver for the CSC instead mills entire out of bar stock. Whatever Kidd fanboy but your mind is made up about it. You are wrong on what babble about a Ruger product that sound like you have nothing but hate for them. Only thing I didn’t care for is their triggers as I mentioned in the posts way above that you didn’t want to read. Too bad you helpless know it all.

Your reading comprehension could use some work.

 

[MPrimo]

I built a 10/22 with all Kidd parts (barrel/bolt/trigger) in a Ruger action mounted a McRee chassis that has been exceptional for both accuracy and reliability. For reference, I have a Vudoo which shoots amazingly well but the Kidd 10/22 is not very far off of the Vudoo's performance.

 

[Mark_Dorman]

I built a 10/22 with all Kidd parts (barrel/bolt/trigger) in a Ruger action mounted a McRee chassis that has been exceptional for both accuracy and reliability. For reference, I have a Vudoo which shoots amazingly well but the Kidd 10/22 is not very far off of the Vudoo's performance.

That's lowkey a goal for my 10/22. I have a CZ and Vudoo and would love for it to get close to on par with them. Would be fun to run it in some competitions just for sh*ts and giggles. Just would want it to be able to perform decently well.

 

[bnanaphone]

TLDR; KIDDs are fun but get dirty fast and malfunction whereas a precision bolt action like Vudoo is tough to beat.

I will echo the common sentiment here to just buy a Kidd supergrade from them and rock on. A big part of the accuracy from their Supergrade builds use to be that they threaded the receiver and barrel for a perfect fit and eliminate barrel droop that can happen using the V-block.

The newest generation of Supergrade receivers have a longer barrel extension that supports the barrel significantly better compared to their standard receiver. I can't tell how the barrel is held in place but I am sure it is a clever clamping design for improved accuracy. That and their rear tang which gives you two points of contact for a better anchor in the stock/action contribute to the special sauce.

The two greatest downsides to any 10/22 clone/build are the rotary magazines and malfunction rate. I have had standard 10/22s and assembled my own KIDD rifle but they get dirty fast, especially if you shoot with a can, and start to malfunction once they are dirty. I noticed the rotary magazines start to have reliability issues as they age and the feed angle is not ideal for precision since they have a tendency to shave a bit off the bullet when fed into the action.

I own a Gen 1 Vudoo and couldn't be happier. I know slapping the trigger as fast as you want and hitting your target is fun but so is a first round hit at 150, then 200, then 300. A Vudoo doesn't malfunction easily and they suppress much better. The Vudoo offers a consistent reliability and precision the Kidd just can't match.

 

[Rider47]

My 10/22 (Kidd barrel, Kidd trigger, Ruger receiver and bolt pillar bedded into laminate stock) almost never malfunctions. But I watch many, MANY Vudoo's on the line with feeding and extraction issues (so much for that stage - cry on the drive home). I have buddies who have repeatedly had to send their rifles back to Vudoo. The Vudoo's I've seen in PRS type competition do NOT match the reliability of a well-tuned 10/22. Vudoo wishes they had a magazine as functionally reliable as the Ruger 10-shot rotary design. (Google "Vudoo Magazine Modification") If you have a barrel properly sized and held in the factory type v-block, a threaded action and barrel are NOT needed in a 10/22. As for getting dirty, yes - depending on ammo - JUST LIKE ANY OTHER RIMFIRE. Not saying Vudoo's are bad rifles other than being overpriced, just trying keep the BS regarding 10/22's to a minimum. As for shooting a 22LR with a can - very Tacticool.

 

[accurate obsession]

Having been down this road already, I will basically to cut right to the point.
If you like to tinker, don't mind rolling the dice (on accuracy), and realize you're not going to save any significant money - go ahead and DIY 10/22.
If you want to shoot, order the Supergrade.

 

[Rider47]

"you're not going to save any significant money"
Wrong
$1800 for a Supergrade?
If you can't build a well shooting 10/22 for significantly less than this, then buy one.
And any rifle will gamble on accuracy (barrelbarrelbarrel).
(I've seen some crappy shooting $3k Vudoo's!)

 

[accurate obsession]

"you're not going to save any significant money"
Wrong
$1800 for a Supergrade?
If you can't build a well shooting 10/22 for significantly less than this, then buy one.
And any rifle will gamble on accuracy (barrelbarrelbarrel).
(I've seen some crappy shooting $3k Vudoo's!)

Not knowing where the OP is really wanting to go with this leaves it wide open.
Is he buying a donor rifle and changing the barrel and a trigger kit (save a lot of money)
-or-
Buying a donor rifle and having the only thing left that is "Ruger" being the receiver and magazine. Because you're changing the barrel, bolt, trigger group(probably a Kidd), chassis, picatinny rail, springs, buffer, did I forget something? Not saving much money and rolling the dice on the outcome because rimfires are notoriously fickle.

 

[NewsShooter]

"you're not going to save any significant money"
Wrong
$1800 for a Supergrade?
If you can't build a well shooting 10/22 for significantly less than this, then buy one.
And any rifle will gamble on accuracy (barrelbarrelbarrel).
(I've seen some crappy shooting $3k Vudoo's!)

I'll sell one for $500, I've got 4 to choose from, only one has a ruger receiver. . Feddersen and GM barrels, all shoot well. About the only improvement would be a kidd trigger.
I could buy the Feddersen Bronze nickel receiver/barrel and a kidd trigger, KRG stock and still be well under 1200 with those "premium" prices.

 

[Mark_Dorman]

My 10/22 (Kidd barrel, Kidd trigger, Ruger receiver and bolt pillar bedded into laminate stock) almost never malfunctions. But I watch many, MANY Vudoo's on the line with feeding and extraction issues (so much for that stage - cry on the drive home). I have buddies who have repeatedly had to send their rifles back to Vudoo. The Vudoo's I've seen in PRS type competition do NOT match the reliability of a well-tuned 10/22. Vudoo wishes they had a magazine as functionally reliable as the Ruger 10-shot rotary design. (Google "Vudoo Magazine Modification") If you have a barrel properly sized and held in the factory type v-block, a threaded action and barrel are NOT needed in a 10/22. As for getting dirty, yes - depending on ammo - JUST LIKE ANY OTHER RIMFIRE. Not saying Vudoo's are bad rifles other than being overpriced, just trying keep the BS regarding 10/22's to a minimum. As for shooting a 22LR with a can - very Tacticool.

I have a Vudoo and talk to a lot of forum members here and on RFC. Almost all of us will tell you the same thing about the magazines. As long as you load them correctly and have your mag catch adjusted properly, you'll have no issues. For quite a while this was a big problem because they are sensitive to pressure on them and require proper seating. People just didn't realize what was causing the issues and treated them like centerfire ACIS mags. I actually was originally planning on doing a RimX instead of a Vudoo because of the rumors about the magazine issues. Honestly it was just something people needed to figure out.

I agree people can be way too hard on the 10/22 for feeding reliability. I had major issues with mine for a while because I wasn't using a quality receiver. The second I upgrade that and had better fitment between everything (barrel, bolt, and receiver) my feeding issues went away. One of the reasons Kidd rifles are so reliable are because of all the tolerances between the parts being very good. You can do this without having a Kidd, but buying everything from them gives you a better chance at everything matching up well (or makes it easier).