Canted action/scope rail (side to side)

[Smat]

As I mentioned in the A.I. picture thread, I recently purchased an AXMC in 6.5CM.

After getting home and starting to put it together, when levelling the rifle, I noticed that the action/scope rail was canted side to side….to the point of being visible to the eye.
Ended up sending it back, it was away for 5 weeks and had a new rail installed.

Got it back the other day and while it’s not as severe as it was, it’s still canted.

I tend to get really hung up on small details like this, that ultimately don’t really matter. And I also had a less that satisfactory experience with A.I. customer service.

Is this even a problem/something you would worry about?

By my calculations, the rail is out by approx 0.3 - 0.4 degrees, with the mating surfaces of the rail-to-action 0.07mm out of square.

Sometimes I just need people to tell me to stop being an idiot

 

[spife7980]

Stop being an idiot

 

[AllenOne1]

Adjust the gun so that the rail is level, level the scope to the rail, install a scope level again level with the rail. Done. Go shoot a tall target test to verify.

Stop being an idiot.

 

[spife7980]

You don’t need any levels. Ever.

Shoulder the gun so that it’s comfortable, align the reticle with gravity and lock it down. To align the reticle with gravity you need to hang a rock from a string.

Throw three or four of those bubble levels on the same plane and they will all read different.

 

[AllenOne1]

You don’t need any levels. Ever.

Shoulder the gun so that it’s comfortable, align the reticle with gravity and lock it down. To align the rifle with gravity you need to hang a rock from a string.

Throw three or four of those bubble levels on the same plane and they will all read different.

You're right, just because it's a level doesn't mean it's level. If your going to use levels you need a master level, that is verified to be level, to rule any other levels that you might use for reference in the process.

 

[Smat]

Absolutely agree with the levels not all reading the same comment. I’ve only been using the one (as high a quality as I could find) and mainly using it for comparison reasons (if it’s out, then it’ll be out by the same amount no matter where it’s placed etc) just because of that.

Appreciate all the idiot comments, literally what I need when I get like this. I’m very new to firearms and access to a range is somewhat limited (I’m in the U.K.).

The rifle has already been back to the manufacturer (the cant was a lot worse) and they found the rail to be out of spec & replaced it. Guess I was just a little disappointed it wasn’t perfect after extra the extra attention.

 

[AllenOne1]

To check your level place it on a fairly level surface and note the position of the bubble in relation to the indicator lines. Now flip/spin the level end for end and see if the bubble is in the same position. If not get a different level.

 

[b6graham]

you sent an AI back because of an $8 bubble level? L O fucking L

you probably had a 'less than satisfactory' interaction because that was a dumb request. I can't believe they even accepted it back but that's probably why they kept it for 5 weeks just to spite you

 

[Smat]

No, I actually sent it back because the rail was visibly (to the eye) canted.

and the less than satisfactory CS experience was due to my initial enquiries, asking if it was anything to worry about or within tolerance, taking over two weeks to receive an answer.

 

[ShtrRdy]

As much as we pay for an AI I would expect to have better customer service when we can visibly see a cant between reciever and rail.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

You could stick that cheap bubble level on each slot/raised rail section of your rail and likely get different results (Ive tried this on countless rifles). The tolerances on bolt-on rails are usually just not that precise.

Thats why you level your scope and rifle setup during installation.

 

[supercorndogs]

As much as we pay for an AI I would expect to have better customer service when we can visibly see a cant between reciever and rail.

We? You have a visibly canted rail or have you ever seen one? I have yet to see any evidence of said "visibly canted rail."

 

[Smat]

If you’d like a more specific order of events, in order to determine whether or not I’m telling the truth. Normally I wouldn’t have put details up publicly.

• 4th May: Bought rifle
• 5th May: contacted A.I. asking some generic questions. Received reply asking for serial numbers 30 minutes later but no answers.
• 8th May: Sent A.I. email asking about cant.
• 15th May: Returned rifle to local dealer, for return to original dealer (at their request, for them to inspect and decide whether it was an issue or not).
• 16 - 19th May: dealer determined there was an issue and returned rifle to A.I.
• 22nd May: Rifle arrives at A.I. Received answers to emails from A.I.
• 1st June: Polite email sent to A.I. asking if they had a rough idea when they might get a chance to look at it as I might have to cancel a range day and would like as much time as possible to cancel it.
• 2nd June: A.I. replied and, politely, told me not to contact them again.
• 4th July: Rifle returned.

During this time, I missed two booked and paid for range days. A.I. stated one return date, then missed it……with it returning this Tuesday.

 

[Baron23]

you sent an AI back because of an $8 bubble level? L O fucking L

you probably had a 'less than satisfactory' interaction because that was a dumb request. I can't believe they even accepted it back but that's probably why they kept it for 5 weeks just to spite you

Did you miss the part where AI confirmed that his first rail was out of spec and replaced it. Not this one, but the one before which was apparently bad enough to be visible to the eye?

 

[b6graham]

Did you miss the part where AI confirmed that his first rail was out of spec and replaced it. Not this one, but the one before which was apparently bad enough to be visible to the eye?

tbf nothing in his post confirms determined anything was wrong. the dealer did. and AI took his rifle for 5 weeks and sent it back

 

[Baron23]

• 2nd June: A.I. replied and, politely, told me not to contact them again.

They really told you not to contact them again? Wow....I mean, really wow.

 

[Smat]

In fairness to them, it was very politely and words to that effect rather than verbatim.

 

[Smat]

accidental double post

 

[AleksanderSuave]

If you’d like a more specific order of events, in order to determine whether or not I’m telling the truth. Normally I wouldn’t have put details up publicly.

• 4th May: Bought rifle
• 5th May: contacted A.I. asking some generic questions. Received reply asking for serial numbers 30 minutes later but no answers.
• 8th May: Sent A.I. email asking about cant.
• 15th May: Returned rifle to local dealer, for return to original dealer (at their request, for them to inspect and decide whether it was an issue or not).
• 16 - 19th May: dealer determined there was an issue and returned rifle to A.I.
• 22nd May: Rifle arrives at A.I. Received answers to emails from A.I.
• 1st June: Polite email sent to A.I. asking if they had a rough idea when they might get a chance to look at it as I might have to cancel a range day and would like as much time as possible to cancel it.
• 2nd June: A.I. replied and, politely, told me not to contact them again.
• 4th July: Rifle returned.

During this time, I missed two booked and paid for range days. A.I. stated one return date, then missed it……with it returning this Tuesday.

That photo has been doctored/skewed.

The receiver and rail are both coincidentally canted in the same direction..?

I have a feeling we just saw why “ A.I. replied and, politely, told me not to contact them again.”

 

[roostercogburn98]

That rifle looks used as fuck. Look at all the black and smudge marks on it. Did you beat it unmercifully in the 11 days it was in your possession?

 

[supercorndogs]

That photo has been doctored/skewed.

The receiver and rail are both coincidentally canted in the same direction..?

I have a feeling we just saw why “ A.I. replied and, politely, told me not to contact them again.”

Common man he was just cropping his dildo collection out of the back ground.

What prompted you to sign up here specifically to post this OP? Being as you singed up yesterday and have 4 posts I don't think that is out of line to ask.

 

[roostercogburn98]

11 days of ball peen hammer attacks?

 

[kthomas]

As much as we pay for an AI I would expect to have better customer service when we can visibly see a cant between reciever and rail.

I don't think European based companies are known for their responsiveness to customer requests and support.

 

[HiDesertELR]

11 days of ball peen hammer attacks? View attachment 8177225

There may have been some fisting involved

 

[Smat]

What prompted you to sign up here specifically to post this OP? Being as you singed up yesterday and have 4 posts I don't think that is out of line to ask.

I am completely inexperienced with firearms. When I initially spotted what could be a problem and wasn’t getting a response from the normal channels, I google searched and several threads on this forum cropped up. After which I found the Accuracy International picture thread and lurked for a while. Then the rifle came back, improved from original but still somewhat out…so thought the best course of action would be to join and ask people of experience. Simple as that.

I’ve always been upfront about enquiring whether or not this is an issue to worry about.

The photo has only had the background removed and skewed so as to line up the edges of the action with the grid lines on my phone (as a means of comparing the rail above).

As to remarks about beating the shit out of it…..nope, as long as it’s been in my hands it’s never been fired and has only had the bolt cycled less than 10 times.

 

[Smat]

Just for further clarification, here’s the method of photo adjustment I used, on my phone, purely to give align the photo with the pop up grid lines and to give a better reference for myself for the rail.

The ”ball peen hammer“ marks on the receiver face were just oil residue from the factory, I presume.

 

[doubloon]

Wow ... all these bubbles and levels, it's like a scope mounting / doodle bugging crossover. Where's the plumbbob and the astrolabe?

After skimming this thread I almost feel dirty checking to see my rail is mostly level and centered then using one of those $8 scope leveling wedges to align the scope base parallel with the rail.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Common man he was just cropping his dildo collection out of the back ground.

What prompted you to sign up here specifically to post this OP? Being as you singed up yesterday and have 4 posts I don't think that is out of line to ask.

I was wondering this as well. Guy signed up specifically to bitch about AI..?

 

[AleksanderSuave]

11 days of ball peen hammer attacks? View attachment 8177225

Ball and Peen? how did you guess what him and his boyfriend did with the rifle in the last few days?

 

[Smat]

I was wondering this as well. Guy signed up specifically to bitch about AI..?

Though I didn’t exactly do that. I initially enquired about a possible issue (and to determine if others thought it was) then only added further information when questioned.

Logically speaking, it’s perfectly reasonable for someone to seek the advice/opinion of others when they encounter an issue. Would I have likely joined otherwise…..probably, eventually, but even then it would mostly been out of respect for a forum that I was visiting. I don’t know enough to join a forum to give out advice, so other than asking questions and posting photos I wouldn’t have much else to offer.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Just for further clarification, here’s the method of photo adjustment I used, on my phone, purely to give align the photo with the pop up grid lines and to give a better reference for myself for the rail.

The ”ball peen hammer“ marks on the receiver face were just oil residue from the factory, I presume.

congratulations..you just tattled on yourself..

That circle on left of center at the very bottom of your screenshot, shows the photo has been rotated in the iphone app.

As for the forced perspective, maybe put it on a table and take a picture head on, if you want to be taken seriously instead of straddling it on your crotch.

 

[Smat]

Again, yes…..the photo has been rotated slightly to align the point at which the horizontal and vertical faces of the receiver meet and put them level to better demonstrate the canted angle of the rail at the top of the picture.

Theres literally no point in me taking the photo you suggest, as that rail was deemed out of spec by A.I. and has been changed……with the new one being the one referred to in the original post.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Post a side view. Hell, post any other view

 

[Baron23]

congratulations..you just tattled on yourself..

That circle on left of center at the very bottom of your screenshot, shows the photo has been rotated in the iphone app.

As for the forced perspective, maybe put it on a table and take a picture head on, if you want to be taken seriously instead of straddling it on your crotch.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Again, yes…..the photo has been rotated slightly to align the point at which the horizontal and vertical faces of the receiver meet and put them level to better demonstrate the canted angle of the rail at the top of the picture.

Theres literally no point in me taking the photo you suggest, as that rail was deemed out of spec by A.I. and has been changed……with the new one being the one referred to in the original post.

So if you have a new rail..why are you still posting photos of, and bitching about, the old rail....?

 

[Smat]

We? You have a visibly canted rail or have you ever seen one? I have yet to see any evidence of said "visibly canted rail."

tbf nothing in his post confirms determined anything was wrong. the dealer did. and AI took his rifle for 5 weeks and sent it back

So if you have a new rail..why are you still posting photos of, and bitching about, the old rail....?

Because of the two quoted messages above…..it’s only fair to provide information on what led me to here.

 

[supercorndogs]

2 par for the course.

Because of the two quoted messages above…..it’s only fair to provide information on what led me to here.

 

[supercorndogs]

Your grid is skewed in your photo. With all this long windedness you are starting to remind me more and more of someone. Trying to put my finger on it.

 

[Im2bent]

So the guy has a bad rail which was confirmed and replaced. His new rail has a slight cant (maybe due to level) and signs up here to ask about it. He states he's a newbie and the dog pile starts?

 

[supercorndogs]

So the guy has a bad rail which was confirmed and replaced. His new rail has a slight cant (maybe due to level) and signs up here to ask about it. He states he's a newbie and the dog pile starts?

Can you please point me to where it was "confirmed by AI?" All I have seen is hearsay and a doctored picture.

 

[Im2bent]

Can you please point me to where it was "confirmed by AI?" All I have seen is hearsay and a doctored picture.

Hearsay and doctored according to?

 

[wade2big]

AI rifles are perfect. Jesus himself not only conceived the idea, but manufactures and assembles everyone of them. I almost got banned because I thought the slots in a AI handguard were keymod (dickmod). What a joke.

OP, tell these guys to go fuck themselves. It won't change anything but at least you said it.

 

[roostercogburn98]

OP, tell these guys to go fuck themselves. It won't change anything but at least you said it.

That’s not your usual perky reply, you not feeling well

 

[supercorndogs]

Hearsay and doctored according to?

Maybe you need to look up the definition of those two words. Or maybe you need to actually read the thread and look at the photos. Granted that is still not a silver bullet for understanding what you read and saw.

 

[BurtG]

So the guy has a bad rail which was confirmed and replaced. His new rail has a slight cant (maybe due to level) and signs up here to ask about it. He states he's a newbie and the dog pile starts?

This

Is Snipershide

 

[Baron23]

So the guy has a bad rail which was confirmed and replaced. His new rail has a slight cant (maybe due to level) and signs up here to ask about it. He states he's a newbie and the dog pile starts?

Its because idiots need to bolster their self-esteem by denigrating others. Allows them to feel superior.

I see zero wrong with the OP's posts and it sure does seem like a lot of paranoia and hostility in many of the responses.

@Smat - just get the hell out of this thread. These people have nothing to offer you. And yes, you are being OCD about this less than a degree of cant in the rail if its even real given the error in most bubble levels.

By the by, somewhere on here Frank (lowlight, right?) posted the math that shows a bit of cant in the scope doesn't induce much of the way in error while canting the gun (with the scope) absolutely will...you will be low and to whatever side you canted to. Just think about the geometry.

Cheers

 

[Terry Cross]

Some are being self righteous dicks on this thread.
OP is an admitted newbie that joined in an attempt to learn about what to expect with top shelf kit.
This is Bolt Action Rifles not the Pit.

./

 

[Kiba]

There may be a real problem here; it appears AI accidentally installed a right leaning canted rail at the factory, which is correct for rifles sold to residents of countries located in the southern hemisphere.

Being the OP lives in the northern hemisphere, his rifle should have shipped with a left leaning canted rail to cancel out the Coriolis effect; same reasoning behind right hand and left hand twist rifling.

Another call to AI clarifying where you live should straighten this out and they should send you the correct left hand canted rail.






A word of advice: a man who owns one level knows what is level, a man who owns 2 or more levels is confused.

On a more serious note, that rail does look like it might have a parallelism issue (or maybe it's uneven cerakote thickness on the top of the receiver or bottom of the rail skewing things a bit) but without being able to measure it I can't confirm if it's real or an artifact of the picture.

If it does have a visible parallelism issue, that would not only irritate me because of how much the rifle cost, but it would mess with my OCD because once I saw it I could never unsee it. In the end it's a minor issue that won't affect function or accuracy-- because as was said earlier all that matters in the end is that the reticle and erector in the scope are held level to gravity during firing, and that's easy to do with a plumb line even if the rail is canted. Shoulder the rifle, rotate the scope in the rings until the reticle is level to the plumb line, snug the rings. When you're done you can lock the rifle down and run the elevation turret up and down and confirm the reticle tracks the plumb line to make sure the reticle is parallel to the erector.

This is also why scope tube mounted levels are better than levels in the rail or scope rings/mount, because the rail might not be parallel to gravity because of tolerance stack up, some people naturally hold the rifle with a bit of cant, etc. You typically can't adjust a rail mounted level, but it's easy to make sure a scope tube mounted level is mounted level to the reticle and gravity with a plumb line before you tighten it down.

OP, is the rail on the receiver noticeably canted with respect to the rail on the handguard, or do you not have a rail installed on the handguard?

This thread reminds me, I'll have to remember to make sure my 3 AIs all have the correct left leaning canted rails installed when I get home. Might explain some of my misses over the last few years.

 

[HiDesertELR]

Some are being self righteous dicks on this thread.
OP is an admitted newbie that joined in an attempt to learn about what to expect with top shelf kit.
This is Bolt Action Rifles not the Pit.

./

We're just breaking him in...

But OP, my apologies. You came to the right place.

Snipershide should be your first and last stop for any information regarding this pursuit - more actual experts with actual experience and actual good advice to give than anywhere I else I've found.

But... as you've found out, gotta have some thick skin sometimes. Don't take it personal like.

Hell, a group of these bastards made me do this thing with a marshmallow, and we don't speak about it, not in polite circles anyway.

Welcome to the 'Hide @Smat

 

[kthomas]

Some are being self righteous dicks on this thread.
OP is an admitted newbie that joined in an attempt to learn about what to expect with top shelf kit.
This is Bolt Action Rifles not the Pit.

./

Agreed.

More pictures would certainly help, but from what I can tell from that picture the rail does look pretty canted. Perhaps its a weird perspective thing with the camera, or maybe it truly is canted. If it is, I would be concerned about that too. I can see Savage producing rifles with that level of cant, but disappointing from a ~$6+k rifle.

Pretty fair thing for a new person to ask. I don't think this warrants the pile on that it got.