I've got a chance to pick up a DPMS sweet 16 upper. It has a carbine length gas system. Are these as hard on parts as I've read? does the dwell time from 14.5" to 16" make a big difference? Would a carrier weight help, or am I overly concerned? Apologies for the rapid fire questions, but I really am more familiar with bolt guns. Thank you.
- Thread starter C.Hazelton
- Start date
Re: Carbine length gas system?
Not that big of a deal.Higher port pressure and a little quicker wear.Run an H buffer and a Tubb recoil spring for good measure.
Not that big of a deal.Higher port pressure and a little quicker wear.Run an H buffer and a Tubb recoil spring for good measure.
Re: Carbine length gas system?
Carbine length gas system was intended for 12" SBR's. If I was buying new, I'd look into a mid length gas system even at 14.5". Heavy buffer and spring do help, but IMO are bandaids when you can just get a middy and not have the problbem.
JMO
Carbine length gas system was intended for 12" SBR's. If I was buying new, I'd look into a mid length gas system even at 14.5". Heavy buffer and spring do help, but IMO are bandaids when you can just get a middy and not have the problbem.
JMO
Re: Carbine length gas system?
Over rated.
This whole issue is 100% designed around the idea that rifles should NEVER brake or go down.
The ammount of shooting it takes to brake the parts people are talking about is ALOT, and i mean ALOT.
Like in excess of 10,000rnds.
By that time, I need a new barrel, I need new parts do to wear and tear. Oh is that from the gas system wear and tear? Who knows and who cares.
just some thoughts
John
Over rated.
This whole issue is 100% designed around the idea that rifles should NEVER brake or go down.
The ammount of shooting it takes to brake the parts people are talking about is ALOT, and i mean ALOT.
Like in excess of 10,000rnds.
By that time, I need a new barrel, I need new parts do to wear and tear. Oh is that from the gas system wear and tear? Who knows and who cares.
just some thoughts
John
Re: Carbine length gas system?
Over rated? No one said anything about <span style="font-style: italic">breaking</span> parts, but the fact remains, right is right, and wrong or a compromise is just that. It's not a problem if there's no choice, but when there is a choice, why even argue the point? Besides, rifles do break, and they do go down especially in extreme conditions (when you might just need it most) and there's no reason what so ever to increase that possibility or probability because of pure laziness. To suggest to someone that it's OK to just look past and ignore that fact is just wrong. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Over rated.
This whole issue is 100% designed around the idea that rifles should NEVER brake or go down.
The ammount of shooting it takes to brake the parts people are talking about is ALOT, and i mean ALOT.
Like in excess of 10,000rnds.
By that time, I need a new barrel, I need new parts do to wear and tear. Oh is that from the gas system wear and tear? Who knows and who cares.
just some thoughts
John </div></div>
Over rated? No one said anything about <span style="font-style: italic">breaking</span> parts, but the fact remains, right is right, and wrong or a compromise is just that. It's not a problem if there's no choice, but when there is a choice, why even argue the point? Besides, rifles do break, and they do go down especially in extreme conditions (when you might just need it most) and there's no reason what so ever to increase that possibility or probability because of pure laziness. To suggest to someone that it's OK to just look past and ignore that fact is just wrong. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Over rated.
This whole issue is 100% designed around the idea that rifles should NEVER brake or go down.
The ammount of shooting it takes to brake the parts people are talking about is ALOT, and i mean ALOT.
Like in excess of 10,000rnds.
By that time, I need a new barrel, I need new parts do to wear and tear. Oh is that from the gas system wear and tear? Who knows and who cares.
just some thoughts
John </div></div>
Re: Carbine length gas system?
I forget who makes it,but I've seen a carbine gas tube that wraps around the barrel to lengthen it,funky pigtail looking thing is the only way to describe it.Seems like it might work.I also run an Endine buffer in my carbines.
I forget who makes it,but I've seen a carbine gas tube that wraps around the barrel to lengthen it,funky pigtail looking thing is the only way to describe it.Seems like it might work.I also run an Endine buffer in my carbines.
Re: Carbine length gas system?
The carbine length gas system runs just fine.
The velocity that the bolt carrier receives is the same wherever it is located.
It actually accelerates a tad slower with the carbine system but it also begins extraction a tad earlier as well.
The carbine system should run a little dirtier but I've never noticed a difference.
It's a non issue that is perpetuated mostly by interweb folklore.
FWIW: The military rifles use this system just fine and DO put 10's of thousands of rounds through their weapons.
They know what the hell they are doing and have made many design changes over the years to improve reliability.
It would've changed if it mattered.
The carbine length gas system runs just fine.
The velocity that the bolt carrier receives is the same wherever it is located.
It actually accelerates a tad slower with the carbine system but it also begins extraction a tad earlier as well.
The carbine system should run a little dirtier but I've never noticed a difference.
It's a non issue that is perpetuated mostly by interweb folklore.
FWIW: The military rifles use this system just fine and DO put 10's of thousands of rounds through their weapons.
They know what the hell they are doing and have made many design changes over the years to improve reliability.
It would've changed if it mattered.
Re: Carbine length gas system?
I have over 6000 rounds out of a carbine length system and have not had a single problem yet. I wouldn't worry to much about it either. Just maintain it properly and inspect your parts during cleaning.
I have over 6000 rounds out of a carbine length system and have not had a single problem yet. I wouldn't worry to much about it either. Just maintain it properly and inspect your parts during cleaning.
Re: Carbine length gas system?
mid and rifle length gas systems on a 16 or 18 inch barrel were designed to reduce recoil, to increase follow up shots. Carbine gas systems work just fine. You won't wear out parts quicker 0r have the issue of breaking something sooner. Take your gun out and run it!!
mid and rifle length gas systems on a 16 or 18 inch barrel were designed to reduce recoil, to increase follow up shots. Carbine gas systems work just fine. You won't wear out parts quicker 0r have the issue of breaking something sooner. Take your gun out and run it!!
Re: Carbine length gas system?
Amen
Amen
Re: Carbine length gas system?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Over rated? No one said anything about <span style="font-style: italic">breaking</span> parts, but the fact remains, right is right, and wrong or a compromise is just that. It's not a problem if there's no choice, but when there is a choice, why even argue the point? Besides, rifles do break, and they do go down especially in extreme conditions (when you might just need it most) and there's no reason what so ever to increase that possibility or probability because of pure laziness. To suggest to someone that it's OK to just look past and ignore that fact is just wrong. </div></div>
Uh-no
The carbine gas system works just fine.
BTW, I hae had carbine, Mid-length, and rifle, all types of M-16's, M-4's and AR-15's.
The two rifles Ihave now are 16" mid length and 18" rifle length.
both work just as good as my carbine length systems.
so its a mute point. In all my days I have NEVER seen a gas tube fail a rifle due to the distance of the gas port on a rifle that has maintenance done like it should be.
Every time I hear about the cases where a rifle fails, its always in the worst situation known to man, in the mountains in ice, snow, down on the ocean after a 6 mile swim and all this crap.
These same storys where true in the 1940's too when the M1 Grand iced up during the winter months of 1944 around Christmas.
The facts are, every rifle fails, every system has its limits.
But the length of a gas port on a AR-15 family of rifles does not make your rifle not run if its done to standard.
Now, go out in the world, and start drilling this size hole, and X distance, adjusting the dwell time and all that. YES you will have issues.
But there is a standard, follow it and life will be ok.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Over rated? No one said anything about <span style="font-style: italic">breaking</span> parts, but the fact remains, right is right, and wrong or a compromise is just that. It's not a problem if there's no choice, but when there is a choice, why even argue the point? Besides, rifles do break, and they do go down especially in extreme conditions (when you might just need it most) and there's no reason what so ever to increase that possibility or probability because of pure laziness. To suggest to someone that it's OK to just look past and ignore that fact is just wrong. </div></div>
Uh-no
The carbine gas system works just fine.
BTW, I hae had carbine, Mid-length, and rifle, all types of M-16's, M-4's and AR-15's.
The two rifles Ihave now are 16" mid length and 18" rifle length.
both work just as good as my carbine length systems.
so its a mute point. In all my days I have NEVER seen a gas tube fail a rifle due to the distance of the gas port on a rifle that has maintenance done like it should be.
Every time I hear about the cases where a rifle fails, its always in the worst situation known to man, in the mountains in ice, snow, down on the ocean after a 6 mile swim and all this crap.
These same storys where true in the 1940's too when the M1 Grand iced up during the winter months of 1944 around Christmas.
The facts are, every rifle fails, every system has its limits.
But the length of a gas port on a AR-15 family of rifles does not make your rifle not run if its done to standard.
Now, go out in the world, and start drilling this size hole, and X distance, adjusting the dwell time and all that. YES you will have issues.
But there is a standard, follow it and life will be ok.
John
Re: Carbine length gas system?
I don't know. I have an old Colt CAR-15 that is now into the 5 figure round counts. It doesn't seem to care that it's not a middy. Runs just fine. Same with a new Noveske carbine that I have (about 1500 rounds through it). The mid-lengths do have that nice, soft recoil impulse, but I think the reliability issue is a bit overemphasized.
I don't know. I have an old Colt CAR-15 that is now into the 5 figure round counts. It doesn't seem to care that it's not a middy. Runs just fine. Same with a new Noveske carbine that I have (about 1500 rounds through it). The mid-lengths do have that nice, soft recoil impulse, but I think the reliability issue is a bit overemphasized.
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