Got a bit of a carbon ring building up in my HMR. So far it has defied my attempts at removing it. I've tried Hoppe's, CLP, and KG1 carbon remover. Used both nylon and bronze brushes but it just won't come out. I am getting concerned it will eventually cause some issues. What does the Hide use for this stuff? I don't want to "clean my barrel to death" doing it.
- Thread starter Cerwinski
- Start date
I've been tempted to go the CLR route but the side effects seem to be pretty bad.
I've had good luck with the boretech carbon solvent too, but its not as aggressive as clr obviously. Ideally if you have the means to take off your barrel for clr treatment, or just douche everything afterwards with action cleaner, its fine. CLR left on nitride or dlc will fade the color, ive left brakes overnight in clr and they come out reddish/black color
Clamp the rifle so the barrel is vertical, or close to it. Plug the muzzle with a foam earplug or something similar, and fill the barrel to the chamber with carbon remover (the boretech stuff does a nice job). Let it soak, then see if you can't get it to scrub out with a brush.
KG1 on a mop or a patch wrapped around a brush and let soak for about an hour. Then, oversized brush pushed into the neck and twist it about 30 turns. A chamber cleaning rod works well. A friend of mine uses a piece of cleaning rod chucked in a drill and turned slowly for about 10 seconds. That has worked 100% for carbon ring removal for me. I'm not crazy about using CLR but I know plenty of guys that do with good results. Just don't let it stay in there too long. I think 15 minutes or so is okay IIRC.
I use iosso bore paste on a patch covered brush and scrub it hard.
The patch will be black in no time
Stupid question time, where exactly does the carbon ring form, in the neck area?
Thanks, what I kind of assumed, but wasn’t sure. Can it been seen without a bore scope? I usually clean every 300 rounds or so.
Usually pretty tough to see from behind unless they're really bad.
ETA: Most of the time when you chamber live rounds then eject them without shooting, you'll see a circle or partial circle of burnishing on the bullet. Kind of like when you jam into the lands, but it will be 1/3 to all the way around the bullet.
ETA: Most of the time when you chamber live rounds then eject them without shooting, you'll see a circle or partial circle of burnishing on the bullet. Kind of like when you jam into the lands, but it will be 1/3 to all the way around the bullet.
Thanks LedZep. Perfect description.
Thoroclean from bullet central or jb bore paste. Work on it and use a bore scope to see when it is gone. I know people poo poo abrasive cleaners, but I have gotten 2500+ rds on 3 243 Ackley barrels from Criterion before they went over 3/4 moa by scrubbing the throat every 200-300 rounds. I then tried to run one without abrasive cleaners and the accuracy went to shit at 1700 rounds. It could have been the steel in that particular barrel. I will need to keep testing on a few more barrels to know for sure.
I don't think there are any negative side effects *if done right*.
Iosso works well. I use it about every 500 rounds or so.
I use this but with a short rod chucked up in a battery powered drill.
I have found that IOSSO Gun Brite will really knock a carbon ring out and smooth the throat out like new.
nylon brush with a piece of cleaning rod chucked up in a drill
Use 50/50 vinegar & peroxide, dip and brush a few times. Run some oil on a patch after to clean out mix
This same mixture is what I use to clean muzzle brake carbon
Having soaked some cans recently, clr works much better. May not work as well as the dip for rimfire lead but in my omegas the clr was seemingly stripping the carbon out 5x faster than both the dip and boretech. Plus you don’t get lead acetate like with the vinegar/h2o2 dip.
Patches soaked in metal polishes like Iosso, Flitz, Brasso, etc will turn black as they polish metal that has never, ever had any carbon on it. I learned that in 1984 when I first polished a military uniform belt buckle.
That black means absolutely nothing.
He is 100% correct. You need a to use a borescope to know when the carbon is gone.
I don't like an abrasive cleaner. I'll only use Rem. 40x cleaner or JB Borecompound not the Borebrite.
If you use an abrasive cleaner and a brush....guaranteed bore damage! The picture below is from a shooter using an abrasive cleaner and used it with a brush. 7mm barrel. Should measure .277" x .284" and it now measures .279" x .2845". Only 800 rounds fired on it chambered in 284win. At 100 rounds he started having accuracy issues. You use an abrasive with a brush....guaranteed bore damage.
I also don't recommend chucking up a old cleaning rod in a drill! Seen that procedure wreck plenty of barrels as well!
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
If you use an abrasive cleaner and a brush....guaranteed bore damage! The picture below is from a shooter using an abrasive cleaner and used it with a brush. 7mm barrel. Should measure .277" x .284" and it now measures .279" x .2845". Only 800 rounds fired on it chambered in 284win. At 100 rounds he started having accuracy issues. You use an abrasive with a brush....guaranteed bore damage.
I also don't recommend chucking up a old cleaning rod in a drill! Seen that procedure wreck plenty of barrels as well!
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
CLR worked on getting a lot of carbon out still, but I had more luck with carb-out. That's probably all I will use now. CLR would be good for soaking muzzle brakes or cans, but carb-out was the only thing that got out the carbon that wouldn't come out from multiple CLR soaks and passes with bore paste.
This last weekend I soaked a dirty nasty muzzle brake (TBAC, so it's inside my can most of the time) with Wipe-out for a couple of hours and the carbon just wiped away. I was extremely surprised, figured I'd have a wire brush party on my hands but didn't need to.
Two 20 minute soaks with clr on felt pellets removes the carbon rings out of my 6.5 cm's. After that I flush the chamber with bore blaster then oiled patches in the chamber and bore.
not sure on anyone else's feeling about using this but so far i have been loving clr I plug up one end of my barrel and 1/2 fill it with clr mix it back and forth leave it for 1/2 hour dump the clr and run a nylon brush through it a few times scrubbing the loosen gunk out and all my carbon is gone clean it to make sure the clr is gone and one or two wet batches with what ever lube oil I am using and I feel golden like using Irish spring shame it stinks like it does , but it does work stubborn , hard to get stains or clogged muzzle breaks it works like a charm and it's relatively cheap to buy .
regardless of what you decide to use good luck and best wishes on the cleaning .
regardless of what you decide to use good luck and best wishes on the cleaning .
Frank which cleaners do you consider to be too abrasive to use?
40X, JB Bore Cleaner, Iosso bore cleaner are all abrasives. They are just very, very mild.
40x and JB Borecompound I will use. Not the JB Borebrite. Two different JB's are out there.
I will not use Iosso, KG2 and similar type stuff. I had one US team F class shooter use Iosso one time. Barrel had like a 100 rounds on it (6.5x284) and it would stick the first 15-20 shots into a 1/4moa group but then the accuracy would go sour from copper fouling and the barrel would drop to 1moa. We made him 4 barrels at one time. He had the rifle in the shop here. Al Warner did the chamber work etc...I told him to put barrel #2 on the gun and he had to clean it the way I told him to. So we could see what was going on. Barrel #2 would hold 1/4moa out to a 1k and he set a national record that stood for like 7 years. Barrels number 3 and 4 all shot great as well. I guarantee it was the Iosso and how he was using it to clean the barrel. Might not be the Iosso's fault but the technique he was using and or how often and how much he was using it.
Even the Witch's Brew has been argued with me as being mild etc...but the same guy that argued with me was using the Witch's Brew with a brush and he wrecked 3 barrels in 6 months. His last barrel was a 260IM and in 110 rounds he polished almost a .001" out of the bore and those gouge marks from the bristles of the brush where already showing on the lands like in that picture I posted.
Another guy used Witch's Brew in a 308win and in 500 rounds polished a full .001" out of the barrel. Same thing he was using it with a brush and no patches etc....
I also tell guys you can use the abrasives too much and basically make the bore smoother and more smoother and when you make it to smooth this can lead to copper fouling. The copper from the jacket of the bullet wants to stick. I cannot put a number on smoothness but I do feel it's a contributing factor. We all know a rough bore isn't good but I do feel that too smooth will also cause issues as well.
I read Frank's most recent post and see I need to be reading through this whole thread.
Frank - can you recommend a process to use to keep the carbon ring from building up too bad?
Frank - can you recommend a process to use to keep the carbon ring from building up too bad?
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Yeah the Iosso and others are a one or two time use sort of thing over the life of a barrel. I have seen where a barrel drops off a little, putting some on a patch/cotton wad and gently polishing the first couple inches of rifling will bring things back in. This is AFTER using other cleaners to get the carbon/copper out and verifying that fouling isn't the issue causing accuracy loss.
ETA: I've seen where people will try to attack copper deposits with JB or whatever and it just doesn't make sense to me. Like you're hitting the entire bore with that shit, not just the copper...
ETA: I've seen where people will try to attack copper deposits with JB or whatever and it just doesn't make sense to me. Like you're hitting the entire bore with that shit, not just the copper...
I have some witches brew that came with a barrel from pacnor and it did get rid of a carbon ring for me and I did use it with patches.
But I have also had equal success with chemicals to soak and loosen to then be easily wiped away rather than straight abrading them off and the risks inherent.
But I have also had equal success with chemicals to soak and loosen to then be easily wiped away rather than straight abrading them off and the risks inherent.
Frank, you are now the third different top tier barrel manufacture that I've heard say you can over polish and to smooth will actually lead to more copper fouling so I'd say there is definitely something to it and it's not just a thought or a feeling.
Boretech C4. Soak a tight fitting patch in the area for a 1/2 hour followed by brushing with a nylon brush... Works great for me with minimal effort.
JB bore compound the grey stuff, not the red bore bright mixed with Kroil oil on a patch (not a tight patch either) like Frank said is always my last resort. But like the old saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, clean your barrels regularly and this will not be an issue. If your doing it correctly very little to no brushing is needed for routine maintenance.
Agree with your thought on preventative maintenance. I always had the theory of shoot it till the groups open up until recently. I now have adopted a regular cleaning regimen which has yielded more consistent results across the board.
Yup. You'll waste as much or less ammo shooting 1 or 2 to foul in after regular cleaning than you will chasing your tail at the end of a 700 round string of no cleaning. MV and pressure walk over shots with more fouling. The velocity gain isn't free. It's harder on the brass, harder on the barrel, and you'll get a bigger drop in MV when you clean infrequently. IME they take longer to settle back in after getting dirtier, too.
Every 100-200 rounds is not that bad. Clean before & after a match. With a quality barrel I've found that it's pretty consistently 1 shot to foul in, sometimes 2. Shoot 5-10 before a match and call it good.
Exactly my findings. 1 shot and muzzle velocity comes right back where it was.
Oooops, I’ve been over using iosso in thorroclean flush system for sure after reading this. Damn. Haven’t seen any adverse effects yet luckily. Thanks @Frank Green
Good info, but when you guys mention regular or maintenance cleaning are you taking bore back to bare/removing all copper fouling? This may sound like a weird question, but read a post here about not fully cleaning the bore on a regular basis which was kind of confusing.
So to elaborate, my question is would pulling a bore snake after each range session, then taking the copper out every 200 rounds or so be a good enough routine, or do you guys take the copper out after every range session, regardless of haw many round you shot?
Youre not going to get a real answer to that question as there isnt really one because who really knows. Its just going to be a yes all of the above answer.
Bore snakes dont do anything. Clean the carbon out and the copper if need be.
Just clean it every few hundred instead of every many hundred and the issues dont pop up.
