Cci br2's in a .300 win mag.... No go!!

[Aimsmall55]

In an earlier thread I was asking about what powders to consider using since I have run out of Retumbo for the 230 Bergers. Well, Brian Litz commented and made a few suggestions and one was using lr primers to get my spread down. Well I loaded them a little hot not to hot with a cci br2 and magpro. Out of 5 shots there were 5 hang fires. I quit and will pull the bullets. Just wanted to give a heads up. Kind of scary.

 

[varmint slayer]

I use the BR-2 primers with H1000 all the time. Not one FTF so it is either the powder you used or maybe a bad batch of primers or something else. To say they don't work in the .300 WM based on 5 rounds is silly.

 

[Guest]

I've tested about every primer/powder combo there is in my 300wm. The best results were with 210m's and BR-2's/CCI 200's a very close second. I'm on my third 300wm barrel. The first went 5440 before I pulled it, the last one was at 5500 -/+ the third now has 580 threw it. The 210m's and BR-2's just keep trucking along w/o issue. Hang fires can be caused by many things, not just primers,... alone.

 

[turbo54]

The fact he was running ball powder (Magpro) has a lot to do with this. Stick powders like H1000 and Retumbo are considerably easier to touch off than ball powders.

 

[X-fan]

The fact he was running ball powder (Magpro) has a lot to do with this. Stick powders like H1000 and Retumbo are considerably easier to touch off than ball powders.

Yup!
Get Fed 215s or something else hot for those magnum ball powders

 

[Aimsmall55]

I use the BR-2 primers with H1000 all the time. Not one FTF so it is either the powder you used or maybe a bad batch of primers or something else. To say they don't work in the .300 WM based on 5 rounds is silly.

Not a bad batch of primers. They are a 2,000 lot and shoot very well with my other rifles. I am kind of leaning towards the ball powder theory. Hell I don't know just throwing it out there. Almost shot my chronograph

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Not a bad batch of primers. They are a 2,000 lot and shoot very well with my other rifles. I am kind of leaning towards the ball powder theory. Hell I don't know just throwing it out there. Almost shot my chronograph

Speer exclusively uses magnum primers in all of their rifle work-ups, when using ball powders.

It's called a 300 Win Mag for a reason.

Lots of people cut corners, but magnum carts should be using magnum primers, for a reason.

Chris

 

[Aimsmall55]

Speer exclusively uses magnum primers in all of their rifle work-ups, when using ball powders.

It's called a 300 Win Mag for a reason.

Lots of people cut corners, but magnum carts should be using magnum primers, for a reason.

Chris

Wasn't cutting corners. Taking Litz's advice. But thank you

 

[Goin'Hot]

I had a bad batch of Wolf LR Mag primers. Every shot was a hang fire. The 4th shot never went off. I waited there behind the rifle for 2 minutes. Seemed like an eternity.

This was with H1000.

 

[5R Milspec]

hold on now Bryan knows his stuff,and if he offers a great tip then one should use it.He wouldn't have offered the tip if he thought or knew it was a bad one in the first place.The OP has already said to the fact of it being a ball powder and this may be the cause.I'll take Bryan's word any day anytime,the man rocks for what he is doing for the sport.

 

[turbo54]

Bryan Litz suggests using a large rifle primer (rather than a large magnum primer) to touch off 65+ grains of slow ball powder?

I don't think so.

I've been wrong before though, so show me the error of my ways.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Bryan Litz suggests using a large rifle primer (rather than a large magnum primer) to touch off 65+ grains of slow ball powder?

I don't think so.

I've been wrong before though, so show me the error of my ways.

BryanLitz
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H1000 and H4831SC are both good temperature stable choices for the 230's in 300 WM.

You'll get about +100 fps with MAGPRO, but that's a double base and hence more temperature dependent powder.

With MAGPRO you can push the 230's 2800 fps+ out of a 24" barrel. That's loaded to 3.600" COAL, which is max mag length for the XM2010 magazine.

The COAL is a very important variable when loading this bullet in 300 WM; you want to load them as long as your throat and mag will allow to get the long bullet out of the case as much as possible.

Another tip; use standard large rifle primers for this, not magnum primers. I've consistently seen larger groups and higher MV SD's with mag primers.

The 230 Tac Hybrid is the one with the shorter nose and lower BC, intended to be more accommodating for mag feeding. We've seen equal precision from the full-blown Target Hybrid (un-constrained nose length, higher BC) at 3.600" COAL. So many people, including myself, are questioning the fate of the 230 Tac Hybrid if the higher BC 230 is just as good in the length constrained application.

Here are the 300 WM and 300 WM vs. 338 LM reports referred to above:
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/...agWEZ_Rev1.pdf
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/300_338_Rev1.pdf

This analysis also appears as chapters 13 and 14 in "Accuracy and Precision for Long Range Shooting" (Accuracy & Precision Book) along with many other WEZ analysis.

Be careful about the conclusions of the 300 WM/338 LM comparison. It shows that the 300 WM with the modern, optimized 230 grain bullet can outperform .338 with 250 and 300 grain legacy bullets. However, if you look at the 338 LM also with modern, optimized 250 and 300 grain Hybrid bullets, then the 338 is still on top.

It is an eye opener though, comparing the 300 WM with it's legacy bullets vs the new 230's. Lots of performance there.

Take care,
-Bryan
Last edited by BryanLitz; 03-29-2013 at 08:51 AM.
Bryan Litz
Ballistician

Author of: Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting and Accuracy and Precision for Long Range Shooting

 

[turbo54]

Thanks for posting that, I stand happily corrected, that Bryan did in fact suggest using large rifle primers to ignite a fat charge of slow ball powder.

Hope you've learned it's not a good choice.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Thanks for posting that, I stand happily corrected, that Bryan did in fact suggest using large rifle primers to ignite a fat charge of slow ball powder.

Hope you've learned it's not a good choice.

No doubt it's a bad choice. Thanks

 

[Disturbed]

I have some loaded with H1000 and cci large rifle primers. I am going to try them tomorrow. We will see if it works for me.

 

[X-fan]

I tried std primers in my 300Win with stick powder, but have never seen any improvement in SD or vertical.
Maybe its too cold here?

 

[sakobob]

i ran 210m with 74gr rl22 and had one hang fire in a trg 42 out of 6 rounds,no more for me, mag only.

 

[Disturbed]

They set off 20 rounds today for me.

I will try the same loads tomorrow with magnum primers tommorow and see what turns out better.

 

[Deadshot2]

I tried std primers in my 300Win with stick powder, but have never seen any improvement in SD or vertical.
Maybe its too cold here?

If not too cold, at least too wet

 

[Deadshot2]

Not a bad batch of primers. They are a 2,000 lot and shoot very well with my other rifles. I am kind of leaning towards the ball powder theory. Hell I don't know just throwing it out there. Almost shot my chronograph

Don't know if they are from the same batch as yours but I had a long string of hang fires, even failures to fire, with BR-2's and that was just in my .308. When I finished that box the problems went away.

 

[Disturbed]

Shot 10 of each today. Extreme spread was 23 with the large rifle primers and 22 with the magnum primers. Basically the only difference I saw was in muzzle velocity. I averaged 36 fps in that small test group.

 

[X-fan]

If not too cold, at least too wet

We do get the damp here!

 

[Sniper260]

A little off topic but I was having hang fires with cci br4's the other day. First time they ever gave me problems.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

About 4 years back, CCI had a recall on some batches of BR-2s and stopped production, IIRC. There was a 'sensitivity' issue that cropped up, but I don't think that's what's at play in the OP, or with your situation.

What powder were you using ducks?

There are a lot of variables that come into play, such as enviromental storage conditions for powder AND primers, but if you keep getting hangfires, you might try switching brands, changing powder and finally, moving up to a mag primer if problem persists.

Chris