Cheapo ammo for learning

[NikolaiS]

For a bit of context, I'm a student here on the online training, and I'm on Lesson 4 now.

I hear a lot of people advocating quality match grade ammo, and I'm sure it has its place in proper hands. In *my* hands, I tend to think that extra quality will be completely lost. At 200 yds, I'm still trying to stabilize the reticle on the target, so my "groups" look more like a "spray". (Just ordered a rear bag, so we'll see how that improves things.)

So I use the cheapest ammo I can find. I do use the same brand/type, so at least that factor's consistent. I figure working on the fundamentals right now is the most important thing.

This is a round about way of asking if going the cheap ammo route for now is the way to go.

Nik

 

[canman]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

Cheepo ammo will not give you reliable feedback. You won't know when your groups tighten up.

 

[drmarc]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

If your that far from what "you" would consider basic long rifle shooting skills I'd buy a 22lr bolt action and bone up on good technique with it at reduced distances and reduced target size. Errors in shooting show up at 50 yards with improper technique just like they do with larger calibers at farther distances. You can shoot allot of 22lr and garner good results before "stepping up".

Just a thought...

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: drmarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your that far from what "you" would consider basic long rifle shooting skills I'd buy a 22lr bolt action and bone up on good technique with it at reduced distances and reduced target size. Errors in shooting show up at 50 yards with improper technique just like they do with larger calibers at farther distances. You can shoot allot of 22lr and garner good results before "stepping up".

Just a thought... </div></div>

ding ding we have a winner!!!!!

Or if you must:

<span style="font-weight: bold">.308 168 or 175grn GA Arms</span>

John

 

[Apache]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

As far as cheap ammo goes, try HSM ammo or really cheap, Remington UMC. I have had decent results with UMC .308. At about 18 bucks a box, it's not that bad.

 

[81STFACP]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a bit of context, I'm a student here on the online training, and I'm on Lesson 4 now.

I hear a lot of people advocating quality match grade ammo, and I'm sure it has its place in proper hands. In *my* hands, I tend to think that extra quality will be completely lost. At 200 yds, I'm still trying to stabilize the reticle on the target, so my "groups" look more like a "spray". (Just ordered a rear bag, so we'll see how that improves things.)

So I use the cheapest ammo I can find. I do use the same brand/type, so at least that factor's consistent. I figure working on the fundamentals right now is the most important thing.

This is a round about way of asking if going the cheap ammo route for now is the way to go.

Nik
</div></div>

If you want to improve in your shooting skills and can't afford match ammo, try the 22LR route. In Phoenix look up PRGC and ask for Bill Poole, they have an excellent smallbore program in the club that they even hook you up with a target 22. They shoot smallbore at Avery regularly and maybe at South Mountain. There are a few good guys in the PHX area who will be glad to help you on smallbore shooting, German Salazar being one.

Later on you can shoot in their high power prone only matches. They have regular high power and F-class 500 yard matches at South Mountain, not sure anymore about Avery. They also shoot 500 yards at Rio Salado on Usery Pass.

If you need contact info for those shooters I mentioned in the PHX area PM me.

 

[kwild]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

3 things that I have done: 22lr for practice. You can shoot a crap load of it. Even at 100m it is good practice. Reloading will give you great ammo at a much lower cost. And last UMC ammo is about the best "cheap" ammo I have ever used.

 

[Shibumi]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

Another option is to work solely on dryfiring. Not "fun", but it would help you work out what really matters, which is everything prior to the bullet leaving the barrel.

An efficient way is to get the online training, save up for some PMS, HSM, or good deal on Match grade rounds, and then go to Rifles Only.

You will get top notch training with excellent instruction, and since it is hands on, you will be able to apply all that you have mentally learned.
Then, collect all the brass and reload.

There is no easy way to the top of your shooting potential, but if you plan it all correctly, you can map out your equipment needs and education so that it intersects at the top.

The top shooters in the world spend a metric ass load of time on dryfiring.
I know of one top shooter who spent a year working on positional alone.
Hence, he is a top shooter!

 

[NikolaiS]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

Ok thanks for tips. One day, it would be sweet to take a vacation out to Rifles Only.

To clarify, by "spray" I'm getting about 6" groups at 200 yds. No pattern vertical/horizontal. Some are dead-on, but it's really pretty random. I'm 99% sure this is coming me bobbing my reticle around the target, and trying to make the shot as the reticle passes over the target. Bad, bad.

I haven't yet put the Breathing lesson to live fire yet, but have been dry firing with the Breathing this week. Will hit the range tomorrow and see if I can put things together there. I'll also test the rear bag for the first time, which I'm hoping helps stabilize the natural-point-of-aim, which I don't seem to have a handle on yet. An uncertain NPA, I suspect, is the main cuprit behind my bobbing reticle.

If I can put the breathing and NPA together, I think I'll start seeing those groups narrow. I will say that even with Lessons 1-3, my "spray" has narrowed significantly (from 12-15" random groups) when I started the online training. So I'm quite happy with that progress and look forward to continued practice and learning.

I never fired a rifle until this year, tried it, and got hooked in a BIG way. Now, I think about it while I'm at work, and I dry fire every day. This stuff is crack.

Nik

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

Your biggest problem, right now, appears not to be cheap ammo for learning, but rather, your listening skills. Did you hear ".22 LR"? My suggestion, develop, as already mentioned here, your basic marksmanship skills with .22LR fitted with peeps and a sling.

 

[NikolaiS]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

81STFACP, I tried PM, but you're over your limit

Sterling, I take the suggestions on the .22, as well as dry fire, as well as aiming for an eventual class at Rifles only. Of the three, I have immediate access to dry fire, so I'm doing that a lot and trying to isolate my shooting skill problem areas with what I have available. And that includes paying attention to the online training and hearing what some more experienced shooters have to say.

Shibumi's line here is Bartlett's worthy:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shibumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no easy way to the top of your shooting potential, but if you plan it all correctly, you can map out your equipment needs and education so that it intersects at the top. </div></div>

Essentially, this is what I'm trying to do. Right now, it's incomplete and imperfect. But that eventual intersection at the top is, I think, what most people here aim for, and perhaps a few achieve.

Nik

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

I've been shooting awhile, and done some shooter education, and some trends emerge.

How quickly you improve will depend on your ability to take advice and follow instruction. See it, hear it, do it, be attentive to the critique, then repeat.

If you think you can teach this to yourself, consider the limited abilities of your instructor. Mapping a path is OK, but trying to map it all in detail while you are still getting the initial portions off the ground is probably a waste of time. The actual path needs to be plotted in stages; as one achieves one of them, the next step becomes more clear. It is fairly predictable that things will never go as they were originally expected.

First the skills, then the application. Skills are quickest and best learned starting at 50ft with a .22LR. Most everybody chafes at this and itches to get on with the 'real shooting'; but for a fact, it doesn't get any more real.

Training with fullbore equipment and ammo is wasteful, not one iota more effective, and puts a toll on the bore that is not justifiable.

Marksmanship training is a simple matter, one endeavors to make the outcome equivalent to the intent. If a shooter cannot do this on demand with a .22LR, they are not, IMHO, justified in moving up to a fullbore.

Do the math, do the chore, then reap the genuine benefit.

Greg

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

I think your post is very astute.

 

[1979Wolf]

Re: Cheapo ammo for learning

read and reload