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Choosing a optic under $700

I

ianagos

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Minuteman
May 30, 2017
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Hey guys I’m in a bit of a pickle choosing a scope for my new cz 22lr mtr and my wife will be getting a new 22 aswell.

Mostly shooting a little over 100 yards in the back yard but we also take the bigger rifles out to 700ish yards every now and then so I’d like to get scopes with similar reticles and adjustments.

I have an older Cronus 4.5-27 on my 6.5 and she has a pst gen 2 5-25
I have another rifle with a pst gen 2 5-25 aswell and I like it.

Now my initial thought was just get a couple more pst gen 2 but I started reading and lots of people recommended lots of other things over the pst gen 2

My current 22lr toy has a argos btr 6-24 and I have another one of those sitting here as my wife started with that on her big rifle but was not a fan as it wasn’t clear enough for her out at 600-700 yards. I don’t think Id buy another argos

I don’t love the Cronus because seems a bit sharp and not the best adjustments in my opinion.

Because I don’t shoot out to 1000y and my eyes aren’t very good the pst gen2 seems about the same as the Cronus. I’ll need to pull it out of the safe and let my wife compare she can probably tell me the truth

So in this price range what do you recommend the cheaper the better but I do still want a quality optic.

These gun will probably be my heaviest used guns since they are quite and easy to just grab and shoot. My savage mk2 with the argos gets beat on because we toss it around so everyone gets to shoot some.

Locking turrets are a plus but not necessary. A simpler reticle is also nice
Illuminated is also preferable for shooting at dusk. I should also mention we tend to like a lot of magnification but need a manageable optic. I had a razor gen2 4.5-27 and never mounted it or used it as it was just too big and didn’t make sense for me.

Hopefully there is enough info in this post
 
5x25 arken ep 5 it's in your price range and it's enough power to see 100 yards pretty clearly , personally Id prefer 5x50 , but at that price range I know of none for sale .
 
If you aren’t satisfied with the Cronus then either you have a lemon or you won’t be happy with anything under $700.

My Gen 1 or 1.5 Cronus BTR hangs with Razor G2 level optics. Definitely superior to a PST 2.
 
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I’ve only very recently ever even seen Arken. Seems like a chinese scope. How is their warranty compared to vortex? I don’t doubt it is a decent scope but what if I get a lemon? Can I send it to them? Will they fix it?

I can say Athlon is not great about this. One Argos is much better than the other but they said the worse one is fine and wouldn’t fix it.

I’ve never had a problem with a vortex so never needed to test the warranty
 
Hickswr said:
If you aren’t satisfied with the Cronus then either you have a lemon or you won’t be happy with anything under $700.

My Gen 1 or 1.5 Cronus BTR hangs with Razor G2 level optics. Definitely superior to a PST 2.
Click to expand...
Cronus is super mushy turrets and just the turrets and stuff are literally sharp like not enough deburring/ edge rounding. Optically it’s good. With my blind eyes it was the same as the razor gen2

I’ll pull it out of the safe and compare it head to head with the pst gen2 and the same range at the same time.

If the Cronus had better turrets and locking turrets I would probably up my budget and get one of those
 
ianagos said:
Hey guys I’m in a bit of a pickle choosing a scope for my new cz 22lr mtr and my wife will be getting a new 22 aswell.

Mostly shooting a little over 100 yards in the back yard but we also take the bigger rifles out to 700ish yards every now and then so I’d like to get scopes with similar reticles and adjustments.

I have an older Cronus 4.5-27 on my 6.5 and she has a pst gen 2 5-25
I have another rifle with a pst gen 2 5-25 aswell and I like it.

Now my initial thought was just get a couple more pst gen 2 but I started reading and lots of people recommended lots of other things over the pst gen 2

My current 22lr toy has a argos btr 6-24 and I have another one of those sitting here as my wife started with that on her big rifle but was not a fan as it wasn’t clear enough for her out at 600-700 yards. I don’t think Id buy another argos

I don’t love the Cronus because seems a bit sharp and not the best adjustments in my opinion.

Because I don’t shoot out to 1000y and my eyes aren’t very good the pst gen2 seems about the same as the Cronus. I’ll need to pull it out of the safe and let my wife compare she can probably tell me the truth

So in this price range what do you recommend the cheaper the better but I do still want a quality optic.

These gun will probably be my heaviest used guns since they are quite and easy to just grab and shoot. My savage mk2 with the argos gets beat on because we toss it around so everyone gets to shoot some.

Locking turrets are a plus but not necessary. A simpler reticle is also nice
Illuminated is also preferable for shooting at dusk. I should also mention we tend to like a lot of magnification but need a manageable optic. I had a razor gen2 4.5-27 and never mounted it or used it as it was just too big and didn’t make sense for me.

Hopefully there is enough info in this post
Click to expand...
If you can spend $200 more, you can get the new Primary Arms GLx 4.5-27x56 34mm scopes with the ATHENA MIL reticle. It has new upgraded ED glass, 34mm tube, etc…. Also, their quality control is done in Texas on EVERY scope, not just by the batch. I’ve become a huge fan of their optics for a budget build. 👍🏼

If you’re strapped at $700, then the Arken EP5 is a very popular choice among the .22LR Comp shooters, because of the ED glass, big 34mm tube, reliable tracking, solid turrets, and tons of adjustment.
 
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ianagos said:
I’ve only very recently ever even seen Arken. Seems like a chinese scope. How is their warranty compared to vortex? I don’t doubt it is a decent scope but what if I get a lemon? Can I send it to them? Will they fix it?

I can say Athlon is not great about this. One Argos is much better than the other but they said the worse one is fine and wouldn’t fix it.

I’ve never had a problem with a vortex so never needed to test the warranty
Click to expand...
Yes, they’re Chinese, but based out of Texas. Their customer service is excellent. 👍🏼
 
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ianagos said:
Cronus is super mushy turrets and just the turrets and stuff are literally sharp like not enough deburring/ edge rounding. Optically it’s good. With my blind eyes it was the same as the razor gen2

I’ll pull it out of the safe and compare it head to head with the pst gen2 and the same range at the same time.

If the Cronus had better turrets and locking turrets I would probably up my budget and get one of those
Click to expand...
Interesting-

The turrets on my Cronus have zero slop and no sharp edges. And it’s not a Gen 2. I think it’s technically a Gen 1.5. Maybe they resolved the turret issue after the Gen 1.
 
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ianagos said:
I’ve only very recently ever even seen Arken. Seems like a chinese scope. How is their warranty compared to vortex? I don’t doubt it is a decent scope but what if I get a lemon? Can I send it to them? Will they fix it?

I can say Athlon is not great about this. One Argos is much better than the other but they said the worse one is fine and wouldn’t fix it.

I’ve never had a problem with a vortex so never needed to test the warranty
Click to expand...
Do some reading on here before making such an erroneous assumption. It’s the best scope under $700 IMO. Can be easily found in the PX for under $500. Arken pays for shipping both ways no questions asked for warranty replacement not repair. Takes about 2 weeks total from when you ship it.
 
db2000 said:
Do some reading on here before making such an erroneous assumption. It’s the best scope under $700 IMO. Can be easily found in the PX for under $500. Arken pays for shipping both ways no questions asked for warranty replacement not repair. Takes about 2 weeks total from when you ship it.
Click to expand...
I didn’t make any assumptions I was asking a question. And giving my experience based on OTHER branded scopes I own.

Anyhow you answered my questions they do have a usable warranty. Have you ever had to send one in for warranty? Reading up on the Arken I definitely see some mixed reviews. Seems kinda like when Athlon was starting up and that’s when I bought a few of their scopes. Some people said they were amazing blah blah. But I already shared my opinion on them above
 
Hickswr said:
Interesting-

The turrets on my Cronus have zero slop and no sharp edges. And it’s not a Gen 2. I think it’s technically a Gen 1.5. Maybe they resolved the turret issue after the Gen 1.
Click to expand...
I just pulled them out and I only have a little over 100yards here at home from my target to shooting bench but the pst gen2 almost looks better than the Cronus. At first glance my wife picked the pst but after looking harder the Cronus is a little clearer and crisper to her but with much more of the blue haze around the target.

Side by side at 25x the Cronus had more like blueish shadow around the target? Maybe that is CÁ Im not 100% sure on terms.

In my opinion the glass clarity on the Cronus is slightly better in that regard maybe a bit more crisp as well but really hard to judge.

Turrets on the Cronus and pst gen2 are similar but I’d say to me the pst gen2 feels better

This is the pst gen 2 it does not look hazy like this in real life.
98E4D7A0-CCE4-4284-A6DA-F22B7802F81D.jpeg


This is the Cronus hard to take decent photos
53E2D09D-CE28-4EB8-88CD-4C30BF35A075.jpeg



Take a look at the cinder blocks on each of them and you can really see the blue haze Im talking about

Here is some more photos of the distance
C1868300-4377-4A87-BD42-2155A2986957.jpeg

634431F9-260B-4405-899E-CD9E96CBAACE.jpeg
 
I'd try to get something not made in Chy***. Preferably made in Japan. Or, the Philippines. Malaysia. Indonesia. Korea.
 
$669 plus $10 shipping- PST Gen2, EBR2 Mil, Illuminated reticle- I hope these are not made in C****:

www.eurooptic.com

Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 EBR-2D MRAD (FFP) PST-5257

SPECIAL OFFER: Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 EBR-2D MRAD (FFP) PST-5257 for sale now, only at EuroOptic.com! Best prices on Vortex Optics - call now at 570.368.3920.
www.eurooptic.com www.eurooptic.com
 
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ianagos said:
I didn’t make any assumptions I was asking a question. And giving my experience based on OTHER branded scopes I own.

Anyhow you answered my questions they do have a usable warranty. Have you ever had to send one in for warranty? Reading up on the Arken I definitely see some mixed reviews. Seems kinda like when Athlon was starting up and that’s when I bought a few of their scopes. Some people said they were amazing blah blah. But I already shared my opinion on them above
Click to expand...
I apologize. I thought you said “I doubt it’s a decent scope..” I misread it.
Anyway, I own 6 or 7. I’ve had previous models but the EP5 is the best of the 34mm tubes they offer. I haven’t tried the newer hunting line.
I’ve sent two back. Both for parallax not matching closely to the markings on the turret. I can accept it not being exactly obvious but 200 yards off I can’t. The return process was quick and a breeze.
I haven’t compared to the new gen GLX from Primary Arms that’s just released but look forward yo other’s experiences. That company is great and as mentioned each scope is inspected in house at their US office. Also they cost $300 more so that starts the consideration of “well I could spend $200 more on top of that and get some really great scopes used in the PX. DMR3 or XTR3i come to mind.
 
Just a word about Primary Arms warranty service. A couple years ago I bought their LPVO (1-4, 1-6?) on Ebay. The illumination quit the 2nd time out. I called them, explaind the issue and where I bought the scope. "Put it in the original box and send it to us." THE NEXT DAY I had a brand new scope at my door! Can't get better than that!
 
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I have read mixed reviews when it comes to Arkens glass some think it is fine some feels it is lacking quite a bit but one thing with the EP5 I think everyone agrees on is it is heavy!

"The Arken EP5 5-25×56 construction is quite short at 355 millimeters (14 inches). Compared to competitors’ scopes of the same magnification, Arken EP5 is shorter but also heavier. It weighs about 1100 grams (38.8 oz), which is a lot."

As something for your wifes gun this may be a factor to consider.
 
BILL7532 said:
I have read mixed reviews when it comes to Arkens glass some think it is fine some feels it is lacking quite a bit but one thing with the EP5 I think everyone agrees on is it is heavy!

"The Arken EP5 5-25×56 construction is quite short at 355 millimeters (14 inches). Compared to competitors’ scopes of the same magnification, Arken EP5 is shorter but also heavier. It weighs about 1100 grams (38.8 oz), which is a lot."

As something for your wifes gun this may be a factor to consider.
Click to expand...
Have you seen the torture video where he beats the shit out of the Arken, I think drives nails even, bends pieces back and still uses it? It’s crazy.
 
db2000 said:
Have you seen the torture video where he beats the shit out of the Arken, I think drives nails even, bends pieces back and still uses it? It’s crazy.
Click to expand...
Never questioned the Arkens ability to withstand rough treatment but the weight could be a problem for some smaller or weaker shooters depending on how the may be using their rifles.

A lot of difference in an optic that weighs say 24 oz to one that weighs right at 39oz.
 
db2000 said:
Have you seen the torture video where he beats the shit out of the Arken, I think drives nails even, bends pieces back and still uses it? It’s crazy.
Click to expand...
That was the VSO Gun Channel YouTube video. It was pretty impressive how much he beat on it. I had been using Arkens for about a year before this video without any issues, but the thing that sold me on their durability was when he bent the elevation turret, and knocked it back on the table top to straighten it out, and the tracking was still true.

 
I've compared a lot of scopes and am admittedly glass snob. The Athlon Cronus is a lot clearer than the Arken EP5. The Viper PST Gen 2 is also clearer than the Arken EP5 as well. If you already own an Athlon Cronus and Viper PST Gen 2 and you're actually wanting better glass then none of the Arkens will make you happy glass wise. I also own two Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50s which really suck glass wise on their higher magnification and both of mine have equally crappy glass. Athlon told me it's not a warranty issue and recommended buying their Midas Had line and up fir the better glass compared to the Argos and they were right. I bought an Athlon Midas Tac 6-24x50 on sale for around $460 and boy what a real night and day difference you'd never think they were actually from the same Athlon brand. I then bought an Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 and it was OK but not quite as nice as the Tract Toric 4.5-30x56 or the much cheaper Meopta Optika 6 5-30x56 MRAD ($850/$799 on sale) but didn't like their heavy weight so I bought a lighter $1900 Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 followed by a much cheaper Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 for $700 I thought was a steal at that price since they typically sell for $869.99. it's even better than the Midas Tac. I'm not saying the Athlon Ares BTR is a Nightforce NX8 but I'm content at 1/3 the price and the optical difference between it and Cronus isn't that much. I ended up buying 2 more Athlon Ares BTR scopes in the 4.5-27x50 and it's one if the very few Chinese made scopes my eyes can actually tolerate while most other Chinese scopes I've used including the Arkens give me eye strain and fatigue. The most recent disappointment was the $699.99 Bushnell Match Pro ED terrible glass on high magnification mushy turrets and the Ares BTRs are way better without the haze or fogginess on high magnification with superior turrets.

The Athlon Ares BTR 4.4-27x50 are currently $565 from Walmart online with free shipping and free returns and there's already been a comparison with the new Primary Arms GLX 4.5-27x56 and our resident Hide reviewer who already stated the Athlon Ares BTR is clearer than that new PA GLX that's too bad since I was looking forward to ordering one until I was told it wasn't as clear as the Ares BTR plus its a lot heavier too and I prefer lighter weight scopes well under 30oz. The Ares BTR is also way clearer than the Arken EP5 and EPL4s and clearer than the Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 and Helos BTR and Element Titan and Element Nexus and Strike Eagle and Brownells MPOs and Clearidge XP5 and most old-school Japan made scopes including the SWFA SS 3-15x42 and fixed magnification scopes except their HD line and Bushnell Match Pro ED and Bushnell Elite Tactical and 6500 4.5-30x50 on high magnification.

Think of the Athlon Ares BTR 3 to 4 levels above your Argos and clearer and lighter with a lot more elevation travel than the Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 and a little lower than the Cronus which I think yours is defective if you think it's not clear or have chromatic abherration. The Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 for only $565 with risk free shipping and returns through Walmart online you have nothing to lose to try it out for yourself. Everyplace else normally sell them for $869.99 and have an MSRP of $1087.49. I'd rather buy 2 more of them over another Nightforce NX8. I haven't had any issues with any of the 3 I have owned so far. Glad I didn't give up on Athlon after their crappy Argos experience. The advantage of buying a 6x magnification zoom ratio is you get an incredibly wide range of sweet spot backing the magnification down as well as the ability to see your long distance hits without the need of a spotting scope.
 
ianagos said:
Cronus is super mushy turrets and just the turrets and stuff are literally sharp like not enough deburring/ edge rounding. Optically it’s good. With my blind eyes it was the same as the razor gen2

I’ll pull it out of the safe and compare it head to head with the pst gen2 and the same range at the same time.

If the Cronus had better turrets and locking turrets I would probably up my budget and get one of those
Click to expand...
It also sounds like you have an older Gen 1 Cronus BTR if you think the turrets suck. Their current G2 models have improved turrets as are the G2 Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 I mentioned currently on sale for $565 from Walmart online which has noticeably better turrets and more total elevation travel and is also lighter than the Viper PST Gen 2. I assume you don't want to use your Razor Gen 2 due to it's weight. I too prefer to use lighter weight scopes myself. I call the Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 the affordable Nightforce NX8 at 1/3 to 1/4 the price, it's well actually like an NX6 with lighter weight at 27.3oz and almost as much total elevation travel 85moa vs 90moa with a broad range of real world useable magnification that's still clear even at it's maximum 27x magnification. You'd probably even think it's a Japan made scope due to it's actual quality once you get it and compare it side by side to your Cronus BTR and Viper PST Gen 2. I personally prefer to use Japan made scopes myself but this one's an exception which is unlike most other sub par below average rather disappointing Chinese made scopes sold by other brands regardless of price and I've literally tried them all already. This is where the free shipping and free returns definitely comes in handy whenever you plan on keeping only one or two out of 10 different scopes you buy at the same time.
 
Gohring65 said:
Hey mudd, how’s the eye box on the Burris compared to the ep5? It’s been several years since I looked thru a xtr2.
Click to expand...
Other than the much longer eye-relief of the XTR-II, the eye box is about about the same at max mag. The old Gen 1 XTR-II's were terrible in the glass department, but the newer Gen2 versions (like I linked to) are much better.

Honestly, at the sale price of $650, I'd spend the extra $100 on the Burris over the EP5. Plus, the weight-savings on the Burris is noticeable. Comparing them side-by-side on the tripod on the table overlooking the lake, the Gen2 XTR-II 5-25x50 has sharper glass than the EP5, with no discernible CA, comparatively. It might have some compared to higher-end scopes, but compared to the EP5, it's virtually none. Even as nice as the EP5 glass I have in my scope is, my XTR-II scopes do overtake it at distance.
 
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FuhQ said:
Other than the much longer eye-relief of the XTR-II, the eye box is about about the same at max mag. The old Gen 1 XTR-II's were terrible in the glass department, but the newer Gen2 versions (like I linked to) are much better.

Honestly, at the sale price of $650, I'd spend the extra $100 on the Burris over the EP5. Plus, the weight-savings on the Burris is noticeable. Comparing them side-by-side on the tripod on the table overlooking the lake, the Gen2 XTR-II 5-25x50 has sharper glass than the EP5, with no discernible CA, comparatively. It might have some compared to higher-end scopes, but compared to the EP5, it's virtually none. Even as nice as the EP5 glass I have in my scope is, my XTR-II scopes do overtake it at distance.
Click to expand...
I personally think the Burris is a better choice over the Arken just on years of testing with shooters for reliability, it’s right there with the bushy dmr 2 as far as reliable track record. Im just disappointed in the parallax sensitivity and eye box with the Arken after comparing it to the Athlon helos gen2 6-24x56. The Athlon does everything better including glass besides tracking, it’s wash in that department. Im in the market for a 600$ scope and thinking about just picking up a xtr2 mainly because my xtr3 has the scr reticle and it would be nice to have a couple scopes on my primary rigs that match.
 
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Gohring65 said:
I personally think the Burris is a better choice over the Arken just on years of testing with shooters for reliability, it’s right there with the bushy dmr 2 as far as reliable track record. Im just disappointed in the parallax sensitivity and eye box with the Arken after comparing it to the Athlon helos gen2 6-24x56. The Athlon does everything better including glass besides tracking, it’s wash in that department. Im in the market for a 600$ scope and thinking about just picking up a xtr2 mainly because my xtr3 has the scr reticle and it would be nice to have a couple scopes on my primary rigs that match.
Click to expand...
This is the same reason I'm replacing most of my "other brand" scopes with either Kahles, Zeiss, and Burris...Keep it simple with similar reticles on similar-use rifles sure makes life much easier. All my Vortex HS-T's, Strike Eagles, and stuff are going to go, and maybe a couple of my Arkens?
 
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My recommendation would be the Burris Veracity line. We're running 5 of those in 3-15 and they are excellent for the price range and they track very well. Price just went up for 2020 but if you hunt around you can still find them for $550-$600.
 
Scopeye said:
The Athlon Ares BTR 4.4-27x50 are currently $565 from Walmart online with free shipping and free returns and there's already been a comparison with the new Primary Arms GLX 4.5-27x56 and our resident Hide reviewer who already stated the Athlon Ares BTR is clearer than that new PA GLX that's too bad since I was looking forward to ordering one until I was told it wasn't as clear as the Ares BTR plus its a lot heavier too and I prefer lighter weight scopes well under 30oz. The Ares BTR is also way clearer than the Arken EP5 and EPL4s and clearer than the Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 and Helos BTR and Element Titan and Element Nexus and Strike Eagle and Brownells MPOs and Clearidge XP5 and most old-school Japan made scopes including the SWFA SS 3-15x42 and fixed magnification scopes except their HD line and Bushnell Match Pro ED and Bushnell Elite Tactical and 6500 4.5-30x50 on high magnification.
Click to expand...
So here is an interesting question,
When we start talking shooting distances with the .22lr that most average people are pushing them which would be a max of 200-300yards and most usually within 200yards are we really reaching a point that something above say an Ares BTR or Viper PST gen II that at those yardages that anything at a higher point on the scale of clarity and glass quality diminishing returns really starts to take over for MOST shooters?

The optics companies have really muddied the waters as far as in the different lines many times whether they use a better quality glass or just improve the turrets such as locking or zero stop or maybe offer more adjustment range, and /or illumination while using the same glass as a lower line.

Example I have heard that the Athlon Helos for instance shares the same glass as the Argos, or that the Vortex Strike Eagle glass is closer to the Viper pst than the plain Viper glass.

I think most people even those on moderate budgets would like to get the best glass they can but where is the cut off point for most people shooting .22lr distances?

Just as a general rule of thumb I have felt like that the $900-1100 range is the limit before that PODI really kicks in.
$600-800 really offers most average people the best value as to quality vs dollars spent.
$350-600 is still getting a good optic that starts giving more up in the glass department
$300 and below is getting more into the budget offerings.

Also the pricing ranges are what most optics can usually be found for street prices not MSRP.
And again I know we have a wide range of veatures that add value but in general I am talking about the actual quality and clarity of the glass mostly.

So that may still leave a person to trade off some clarity for some other feature.
What do you think?
 
Try the Burris RT25, Cabelas has them for $599, I have one on my .223. I think the glass is a bit better than my Strike Eagle and it has the SCR2 reticle like my SCR3.

Mike
 
FuhQ said:
Other than the much longer eye-relief of the XTR-II, the eye box is about about the same at max mag. The old Gen 1 XTR-II's were terrible in the glass department, but the newer Gen2 versions (like I linked to) are much better.

Honestly, at the sale price of $650, I'd spend the extra $100 on the Burris over the EP5. Plus, the weight-savings on the Burris is noticeable. Comparing them side-by-side on the tripod on the table overlooking the lake, the Gen2 XTR-II 5-25x50 has sharper glass than the EP5, with no discernible CA, comparatively. It might have some compared to higher-end scopes, but compared to the EP5, it's virtually none. Even as nice as the EP5 glass I have in my scope is, my XTR-II scopes do overtake it at distance.
Click to expand...
CameralandNY has the arken ep5 kit (with rings, caps, and lever) for better than $650. Call them. I'm going ep5 on my T1x. Xtr2 I think parallax at 50 and the ep5 at 25. I occasionally shoot indoors.
 
LeftyJason said:
CameralandNY has the arken ep5 kit (with rings, caps, and lever) for better than $650. Call them. I'm going ep5 on my T1x. Xtr2 I think parallax at 50 and the ep5 at 25. I occasionally shoot indoors.
Click to expand...
I’ve owned an EP5 since they first came out. I own every model Arken they have. The XTR-II 5-25x50 has better glass, and a much more accurate parallax. I sight everything in at 50 (pistols) and 100 (rifles) yards.
 
One of the things about the ep5 besides the eye box, is on my particular unit I had to constantly reach up to the parallax knob and adjust it, really sensitive is how I describe it, it never wanted to stay put, even just sitting on the bench looking thru it it would just need constant adjustment. My helos gen 2 and a few other scopes including the first ep series Arken the ep4 doesn’t do that, I can adjust and pretty much leave it alone until I switch range berms.
 
Gohring65 said:
One of the things about the ep5 besides the eye box, is on my particular unit I had to constantly reach up to the parallax knob and adjust it, really sensitive is how I describe it, it never wanted to stay put, even just sitting on the bench looking thru it it would just need constant adjustment. My helos gen 2 and a few other scopes including the first ep series Arken the ep4 doesn’t do that, I can adjust and pretty much leave it alone until I switch range berms.
Click to expand...
The Burris XTR-II and XTR-III has a moderately stiff (and fluidly smooth) parallax knob, but I like that. I stays put wherever I set it, even under lots of heavy recoil. 👍🏼
 
BILL7532 said:
So here is an interesting question,
When we start talking shooting distances with the .22lr that most average people are pushing them which would be a max of 200-300yards and most usually within 200yards are we really reaching a point that something above say an Ares BTR or Viper PST gen II that at those yardages that anything at a higher point on the scale of clarity and glass quality diminishing returns really starts to take over for MOST shooters?

The optics companies have really muddied the waters as far as in the different lines many times whether they use a better quality glass or just improve the turrets such as locking or zero stop or maybe offer more adjustment range, and /or illumination while using the same glass as a lower line.

Example I have heard that the Athlon Helos for instance shares the same glass as the Argos, or that the Vortex Strike Eagle glass is closer to the Viper pst than the plain Viper glass.

I think most people even those on moderate budgets would like to get the best glass they can but where is the cut off point for most people shooting .22lr distances?

Just as a general rule of thumb I have felt like that the $900-1100 range is the limit before that PODI really kicks in.
$600-800 really offers most average people the best value as to quality vs dollars spent.
$350-600 is still getting a good optic that starts giving more up in the glass department
$300 and below is getting more into the budget offerings.

Also the pricing ranges are what most optics can usually be found for street prices not MSRP.
And again I know we have a wide range of veatures that add value but in general I am talking about the actual quality and clarity of the glass mostly.

So that may still leave a person to trade off some clarity for some other feature.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Next step up from the $565 (current sale price) Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 is the Meopta Optika 6 5-30x56 MRAD for $799.99 DEMO models from EuroOptic and Scopelist or brand new for $849.99 currently on sale at Sportsman's. They're at least equal to if not better than the Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 and Tract Toric UHD at a fraction of their prices. If you aren't a glass snob and want something that may be good enough the Sightmark Presidio 5-30x56 for under $400 with 10% Optics Planet discount code might be just good enough for 22LR their new improved turrets and added zero stop seems to track true.
 
No idea why anyone would waste their hard earned money on Arken. Every single one of them gave me eye strain including the EP5 and EPL4s which supposedly use Japanese ED glass which really doesn't seem like it according to my own eyes and the eue stress and fatigue I get and the headaches with prolonged use. My shooting eye seems to be more glass quality sensitive lately and it's usually the Chinese scopes with the lower quality glass that I can't stand to use due to their glass giving me eye stress except for the Athlon Midas Tac and Ares BTRs and Burris Signature HDs and some less known brands my eye can actually stand to handle such as Hawke Frontier and Sidewinder and Vector Optics Continental and Taurus. Even the new Bushnell Match Pro ED gave me eye stress after prolonged use.
Gohring65 said:
One of the things about the ep5 besides the eye box, is on my particular unit I had to constantly reach up to the parallax knob and adjust it, really sensitive is how I describe it, it never wanted to stay put, even just sitting on the bench looking thru it it would just need constant adjustment. My helos gen 2 and a few other scopes including the first ep series Arken the ep4 doesn’t do that, I can adjust and pretty much leave it alone until I switch range berms.
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