This is my first post and if it is a duplicate I am truly sorry, I have been searching and couldn't find any thing that was related. I am about to purchase a my first bolt gun in 308 for long distance shooting and I am having difficulties making my final decision. I have cut it down to to 2 choices the Remington sps varmint and the sps tactical, have heard that the stock sucks on both so I will be replacing them pretty much as soon as I buy the rifle. Excluding the stock the only stock, the only difference is the barrel length(varmint-26 inch tac-20 inch). I will mainly be shooting 600-800 yards. I know that the 308 has a 30-50fps gain per inch depending on the ammo, I also know that a shorter barrel is more rigid so I am at a stand still. At a distance of 600-800 yards will the drop in velocity be a big factor? I am also not against the idea of buying the varmint and then cutting and re-crowning the barrel to a different length. Any insight that you have would be greatly appreciated especially if you own either rifle.
- Thread starter EngineeringTheShot
- Start date
Re: Choosing my rifle
get the Tac send it to mark as SAC (short action customs) for his SPS package have him put it in your stock of choice and have fun.
get the Tac send it to mark as SAC (short action customs) for his SPS package have him put it in your stock of choice and have fun.
Re: Choosing my rifle
Oh and I am pretty set on the 308, I already have an Armalite AR-10 so I have plenty of brass already for that caliber.
Oh and I am pretty set on the 308, I already have an Armalite AR-10 so I have plenty of brass already for that caliber.
Re: Choosing my rifle
Thanks for the response, what exactly is the sps package, all I saw on the website is a tactical bolt knob installation.
Thanks for the response, what exactly is the sps package, all I saw on the website is a tactical bolt knob installation.
Re: Choosing my rifle
just the hogue stock, etc. search for short action customs and ask him about it. or email him off his website. he did a thread on it here, just can't seem to find it myself either.
edit:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1898802
just the hogue stock, etc. search for short action customs and ask him about it. or email him off his website. he did a thread on it here, just can't seem to find it myself either.
edit:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1898802
Re: Choosing my rifle
The Remington is pretty popular. It doesnt lose that much velocity per inch, there are a few threads in the ballistics area.
Personally I wouldnt do anything with a factory barrel but shoot it or toss it, getting it 'worked' on is wasted money.
I have a 20" and 26" barrel. If you want a real shot at good scores out past 600 yards I'd lean toward the 26" barrel. I can do 1000 yards with my 20" factory but all things considered its sooooo much easier with the 26" rifle.
The Remington is pretty popular. It doesnt lose that much velocity per inch, there are a few threads in the ballistics area.
Personally I wouldnt do anything with a factory barrel but shoot it or toss it, getting it 'worked' on is wasted money.
I have a 20" and 26" barrel. If you want a real shot at good scores out past 600 yards I'd lean toward the 26" barrel. I can do 1000 yards with my 20" factory but all things considered its sooooo much easier with the 26" rifle.
Re: Choosing my rifle
Why not the SPS-T AAC SD? Threaded 20" barrel with 1-10" twist over the conventional 1-12" twist in teir other 308s. Only like 40-50 dollars more than the standard SPS-T too. Seems like a no-brainer to me...
And beyond that, Don't worry about the velocity. The short barrels do wonders at long range. But again, so do the long barrels. Neither are more adequit than the other in this respect. Will the rifle be out in a hunting environment? If so, you may want the shorter barrel. Maybe you want the longer barrel but not at 26", maybe you want it at 24" or 22" or anywhere in between. Something to consider is that with the longer barrel, you can always make her shorter if you feel it's neccessairy, but the short barrel cannot be made longer if you feel it needs to be. But, you can have it re-barreled if you want, although that's marginally more expensive than having the long barrel cut down...
And while you're at it, you might also want to consider your own tastes. Since either will do what you want and more, why not get the one that you personally like the best.
Just a few thoughts, this exact question comes up quite a bit so my answer is just a generic one. I have personally given it alot of thought for my own purposes and I've come to the conclusion that the SPS-T AAC SD is the gun for me. But if it's not available, I'm not biased against the regular SPS-T by any means. Nor the SPS-V as any of them can be re-barreled down the road. All of them need new stocks but the Hogue stock that comes with the SPS-T models is by far better than the other tupperware that comes on the rest of the SPS series. It has pillar bedding in it. It still sucks though...
-Dylan
Why not the SPS-T AAC SD? Threaded 20" barrel with 1-10" twist over the conventional 1-12" twist in teir other 308s. Only like 40-50 dollars more than the standard SPS-T too. Seems like a no-brainer to me...
And beyond that, Don't worry about the velocity. The short barrels do wonders at long range. But again, so do the long barrels. Neither are more adequit than the other in this respect. Will the rifle be out in a hunting environment? If so, you may want the shorter barrel. Maybe you want the longer barrel but not at 26", maybe you want it at 24" or 22" or anywhere in between. Something to consider is that with the longer barrel, you can always make her shorter if you feel it's neccessairy, but the short barrel cannot be made longer if you feel it needs to be. But, you can have it re-barreled if you want, although that's marginally more expensive than having the long barrel cut down...
And while you're at it, you might also want to consider your own tastes. Since either will do what you want and more, why not get the one that you personally like the best.
Just a few thoughts, this exact question comes up quite a bit so my answer is just a generic one. I have personally given it alot of thought for my own purposes and I've come to the conclusion that the SPS-T AAC SD is the gun for me. But if it's not available, I'm not biased against the regular SPS-T by any means. Nor the SPS-V as any of them can be re-barreled down the road. All of them need new stocks but the Hogue stock that comes with the SPS-T models is by far better than the other tupperware that comes on the rest of the SPS series. It has pillar bedding in it. It still sucks though...
-Dylan
Re: Choosing my rifle
terror my response was based on his range requirement and the fact that he was goin to put a new stock on it. I personally find shorter barrels a more enjoyable platform and with him not wanting to ring the hell out of it and only shoot to 800 a 20" barrel is PLENTY.
mark includes a barrel threading and cap in his package so i figured if i was already reccomending it why not save him some money but he AAC isn't a bad candidate either.
terror my response was based on his range requirement and the fact that he was goin to put a new stock on it. I personally find shorter barrels a more enjoyable platform and with him not wanting to ring the hell out of it and only shoot to 800 a 20" barrel is PLENTY.
mark includes a barrel threading and cap in his package so i figured if i was already reccomending it why not save him some money but he AAC isn't a bad candidate either.
Re: Choosing my rifle
I thought about the AAC tac model my only concern is that I have upwards of 3k of 147-150 grain 308 for my AR-10 and I read that the 1 in 10 twist is way to fast to shoot that grain of bullet, of coarse I wouldn't be shooting those bullets all the time I would just like to have that as a possibility if I ever got squirrelly. Thanks for the reply.
I thought about the AAC tac model my only concern is that I have upwards of 3k of 147-150 grain 308 for my AR-10 and I read that the 1 in 10 twist is way to fast to shoot that grain of bullet, of coarse I wouldn't be shooting those bullets all the time I would just like to have that as a possibility if I ever got squirrelly. Thanks for the reply.
Re: Choosing my rifle
Your AR-10 is a 1/11.25 twist, according to their site, so no real difference. AG
Your AR-10 is a 1/11.25 twist, according to their site, so no real difference. AG
Re: Choosing my rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">terror my response was based on his range requirement and the fact that he was goin to put a new stock on it. I personally find shorter barrels a more enjoyable platform and with him not wanting to ring the hell out of it and only shoot to 800 a 20" barrel is PLENTY.
mark includes a barrel threading and cap in his package so i figured if i was already reccomending it why not save him some money but he AAC isn't a bad candidate either. </div></div>
Mark does fantastic work, of that I have no doubt, I was simply stating my opinions BigJoe
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EngineeringTheShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought about the AAC tac model my only concern is that I have upwards of 3k of 147-150 grain 308 for my AR-10 and I read that the 1 in 10 twist is way to fast to shoot that grain of bullet, of coarse I wouldn't be shooting those bullets all the time I would just like to have that as a possibility if I ever got squirrelly. Thanks for the reply.</div></div>
Where are you getting your information from? I'm just curious because you stated earlier that you read that you would lose 30-50 fps per inch of barrel, well that's incorrect. And you also stated that you read that 1-10 twist won't shoot the 150 grain bullets well which is also false. Not to be a dick or anything as I'm sure this is an honest mistake but I think where you're getting your info from is an unreliable source
I'm not calling you out or anything, just saying that your souce may be a bad one is all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">terror my response was based on his range requirement and the fact that he was goin to put a new stock on it. I personally find shorter barrels a more enjoyable platform and with him not wanting to ring the hell out of it and only shoot to 800 a 20" barrel is PLENTY.
mark includes a barrel threading and cap in his package so i figured if i was already reccomending it why not save him some money but he AAC isn't a bad candidate either. </div></div>
Mark does fantastic work, of that I have no doubt, I was simply stating my opinions BigJoe
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EngineeringTheShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought about the AAC tac model my only concern is that I have upwards of 3k of 147-150 grain 308 for my AR-10 and I read that the 1 in 10 twist is way to fast to shoot that grain of bullet, of coarse I wouldn't be shooting those bullets all the time I would just like to have that as a possibility if I ever got squirrelly. Thanks for the reply.</div></div>
Where are you getting your information from? I'm just curious because you stated earlier that you read that you would lose 30-50 fps per inch of barrel, well that's incorrect. And you also stated that you read that 1-10 twist won't shoot the 150 grain bullets well which is also false. Not to be a dick or anything as I'm sure this is an honest mistake but I think where you're getting your info from is an unreliable source
I'm not calling you out or anything, just saying that your souce may be a bad one is all.
Re: Choosing my rifle
The 1-10 will shoot 110 grain v-max's well in addition to the heavy 220 grain bullets where in some cases the 1-12 won't. So if you really want to get squirrely, the 1-10 seems more appropriate simply because it offers a wider range of projo's. JMHO but again, the 1-12" have shot well with the heavies quite often. Either way you go I'm sure you'll be happy. If you have the funds, take BigJoe's advice and get Mark's package and a new stock and you'll have one heck of a fine rifle.
-Dylan
The 1-10 will shoot 110 grain v-max's well in addition to the heavy 220 grain bullets where in some cases the 1-12 won't. So if you really want to get squirrely, the 1-10 seems more appropriate simply because it offers a wider range of projo's. JMHO but again, the 1-12" have shot well with the heavies quite often. Either way you go I'm sure you'll be happy. If you have the funds, take BigJoe's advice and get Mark's package and a new stock and you'll have one heck of a fine rifle.
-Dylan
Re: Choosing my rifle
i got ya terror no worries
i got ya terror no worries
Re: Choosing my rifle
No worries, my info from the loss in fps is from my chronograph, I measured my Ar-10 muzzle velocity which has a 20 inch barrel against my friends AR-30 with a 26 inch barrel. The average velocity difference came to be 315 fps which is roughly 50 fps per inch, I just assumed that this held true for most guns in 308. As for the 1 in 10 twist on the other forums like the high road and Long Range Hunting the general consensus was that at that twist rate it would over stabilize the lighter grain bullets and cause your accuracy to go to hell. If that isn't the case thank you for setting me straight.
No worries, my info from the loss in fps is from my chronograph, I measured my Ar-10 muzzle velocity which has a 20 inch barrel against my friends AR-30 with a 26 inch barrel. The average velocity difference came to be 315 fps which is roughly 50 fps per inch, I just assumed that this held true for most guns in 308. As for the 1 in 10 twist on the other forums like the high road and Long Range Hunting the general consensus was that at that twist rate it would over stabilize the lighter grain bullets and cause your accuracy to go to hell. If that isn't the case thank you for setting me straight.
Re: Choosing my rifle
Isn't the AAC chambered in 300 Blackout? If he goes this route and really wants a 308, he'll have to rechamber, not neccessarily a bad thing as I've had a little bit of bad luck with factory chambers (never on a 700 or 110 though, mainly autoloaders) and that can jack up the price another $75-100 Big Joe just informed me I am wrong, it is indeed a 308
Isn't the AAC chambered in 300 Blackout? If he goes this route and really wants a 308, he'll have to rechamber, not neccessarily a bad thing as I've had a little bit of bad luck with factory chambers (never on a 700 or 110 though, mainly autoloaders) and that can jack up the price another $75-100 Big Joe just informed me I am wrong, it is indeed a 308
