- Thread starter Jw2184
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No point in Christensen if weight is not a factor.
That being said I really like my MPR as a lighter hunting rifle with chassis ergos.
I recommended a Bergara to a friend getting started and while it was very accurate, the extractor broke two weeks before a match and Bergara has not been able to get him a replacement.
That being said I really like my MPR as a lighter hunting rifle with chassis ergos.
I recommended a Bergara to a friend getting started and while it was very accurate, the extractor broke two weeks before a match and Bergara has not been able to get him a replacement.
If weight isn't an issue then I'd personally go with an HMR Pro if you want a chassis style rig or the approach if you want a traditional stock.
Wait and get a Q chassis
If it supports 300 Norma, sure.
Doubt it
Ok, at this point I'm interested in both these manufactures and am seeking peoples opinion of both as mentioned in my original post. If you have not shot either then I'm not really concerned with your opinion. What I did give you to go off of is what is YOUR opinion IF you've shot both these manufactures, not interested in Tikka or Savage or any other manufacture at this point. So may I ask if you have shot both and what your opinion is? I do appreciate your personal frustration however on my very simple question that shouldn't require a whole lot of thought if you've shot both. Have a good day and thanks for the warm welcome to the sight.
Shoot at 100y? Hunting whitetail or elk? Competing on PRS matches? Shooting steel to 1k?
Those are pretty damn important questions.
Also...you still havent searched. The christenson is likely to walk and have shit CS. The bergara is good to go just pick a model
Those are pretty damn important questions.
Also...you still havent searched. The christenson is likely to walk and have shit CS. The bergara is good to go just pick a model
My experience with Christensen CS has not been impressive. They seem willing to help, but are not the sharpest tools in the shed.
There was a thread where an Christensen rifle was walking so that is certainly a risk. I happen to think the MPR is the only worthwhile rifle in their lineup. Their regular stocks are shit.
That being said, I'm not at all impressed with Bergara CS either.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/source-for-bergara-extractor.6914434/
OP, can you give us a little more detail on your purpose? Which models are you looking at?
There was a thread where an Christensen rifle was walking so that is certainly a risk. I happen to think the MPR is the only worthwhile rifle in their lineup. Their regular stocks are shit.
That being said, I'm not at all impressed with Bergara CS either.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/source-for-bergara-extractor.6914434/
OP, can you give us a little more detail on your purpose? Which models are you looking at?
I have never had a bad experience with Bergara CS, ever! I own several Bergaras, none of them have ever had anything broken the actions run smooth in B-14s and Premiers and I cannot complain about the accuracy.
I have had issues with Remingtons, and with Beretta CS to which Tikka belongs. The few times I contacted Ruger about issues they also gave me no solution answers - the only Ruger I still own is now a plinking pistol just for fun. So far Bergara was the only one worth the time dealing with, and the only CS that addressed exactly what I asked without added BS.
I have had issues with Remingtons, and with Beretta CS to which Tikka belongs. The few times I contacted Ruger about issues they also gave me no solution answers - the only Ruger I still own is now a plinking pistol just for fun. So far Bergara was the only one worth the time dealing with, and the only CS that addressed exactly what I asked without added BS.
I have been shooting a Bergara HMR Pro in local PRS matches and I love it. 360 rounds down range and I get 1/3 to 1/5 groups at 100. It shoots Hornady 140 Match, 140 AM gunner and 143 Precision Hunter ammo into tight groups. When shooting matches I can economize by using the Am Gunner ammo for targets inside 500 and I do it with my ballistic app set for the Match ammo. Trigger Tech trigger is Soooo NICE, clean cold bore shots go to the same hole as the follow up shots. The action is very very nice to cycle. I wish I could use a new hunting rifle because I want to by a Bergara premier Stalker or Mnt rifle. That is my experience shooting this rifle.
I have a Bergara LRP in 6.5 CM, It's been very good to me, I have about 1500 rounds down the tube now. No failures, no problems feeding with either AICS mags or Magpul mags. Weighs in at about 14 lbs with a G2 Razor 4.5-27, and Atlas CAL bipod if that helps you any.
I've had the chance to shoot both a Bergara Premier LRP Elite and a Chistensen TFM in the past year (more experience with the TFM), so here's my brief comparison between the two:
Christensen Pros:
- Very lightweight, with a beefy scope (TT525P) the whole thing was still under 10 lbs
- Shot great groups, handloads averaged 3/8 moa for handloads, about the same for Berger FGMM, and shot a few groups in the 1's with SMKs (it liked Sierra bullets)
- Velocities were 100-150 fps faster compared to similar rifles, caliber and barrel length, both with factory ammo and handloads (no pressure issues)
- Good barrel life, still shot <1/2 MOA for 3,500 rounds in a 6.5 Creedmoor before velocities started changing
- Action was very smooth when clean (more on this later)
Christensen Negatives:
- Very lightweight (wasn't ideal for PRS style matches as a result)
- Barrel didn't like to be hot (10-20 rounds back to back was fine, but let it cool off or you'll start to see it string/walk)
- Hated Cutting Edge and Warner Tool bullets
- Action NEEDED to be clean, if dust was blowing the bolt would get hard to even close. Had to keep a rag with me when at a match to wipe the bolt and action when at matches.
- Bolt knob beat the shit out of your trigger finger knuckle (seriously, there wasn't even 1/8" of clearance), I've now got a scar on that knuckle after putting about 1,500 rounds personally through the TFM
- The action seems to more or less just be a trued and coated Rem700, the recoil lug isn't even integral on a $4,895 gun ($2,000 more than the Bergara)
Bergara Pros:
- Action felt like butter even after a long day at the match
- Shot great groups (was shooting .4" groups with factory Hornady 6 Creed ELD-M ammo)
- Had a chassis, which made it heavier and a bit more versatile (pistol grip, heavier = good for PRS)
- Floating bolt head
- Come with a TriggerTech as standard (though I've also seen newer Christensen's with TT triggers in them, a buddy has a Mesa Long Range with a special in it)
- $2,000 cheaper
Bergara Cons:
- Action again felt much like a trued and coated Rem700, but at least at a lower price point
- I honestly would've preferred the XLR chassis of the lower end Premier Series LRP, would've easier to add something like an Arca rail to the XLR than their more custom one on the LRP Elite. Seriously though, the LRP Elite still uses keymod for attachments and only on the sides, seems useless.
- Skinny barrel contour would also start to string shots/walk a bit after 20 shots back to back
- Can't replace the barrel with standard Rem700-style offerings (no Remage for you, if you care) due to the cone bolt face
- Heavier than I'd want to use for hunting
That's the comparison I have. Note that I only really had an afternoon of hands on time with the Bergara and shot the TFM for almost 6 months, so my thoughts on the Bergara are more of a high level overview than an in-depth user review like with the TFM.
Christensen Pros:
- Very lightweight, with a beefy scope (TT525P) the whole thing was still under 10 lbs
- Shot great groups, handloads averaged 3/8 moa for handloads, about the same for Berger FGMM, and shot a few groups in the 1's with SMKs (it liked Sierra bullets)
- Velocities were 100-150 fps faster compared to similar rifles, caliber and barrel length, both with factory ammo and handloads (no pressure issues)
- Good barrel life, still shot <1/2 MOA for 3,500 rounds in a 6.5 Creedmoor before velocities started changing
- Action was very smooth when clean (more on this later)
Christensen Negatives:
- Very lightweight (wasn't ideal for PRS style matches as a result)
- Barrel didn't like to be hot (10-20 rounds back to back was fine, but let it cool off or you'll start to see it string/walk)
- Hated Cutting Edge and Warner Tool bullets
- Action NEEDED to be clean, if dust was blowing the bolt would get hard to even close. Had to keep a rag with me when at a match to wipe the bolt and action when at matches.
- Bolt knob beat the shit out of your trigger finger knuckle (seriously, there wasn't even 1/8" of clearance), I've now got a scar on that knuckle after putting about 1,500 rounds personally through the TFM
- The action seems to more or less just be a trued and coated Rem700, the recoil lug isn't even integral on a $4,895 gun ($2,000 more than the Bergara)
Bergara Pros:
- Action felt like butter even after a long day at the match
- Shot great groups (was shooting .4" groups with factory Hornady 6 Creed ELD-M ammo)
- Had a chassis, which made it heavier and a bit more versatile (pistol grip, heavier = good for PRS)
- Floating bolt head
- Come with a TriggerTech as standard (though I've also seen newer Christensen's with TT triggers in them, a buddy has a Mesa Long Range with a special in it)
- $2,000 cheaper
Bergara Cons:
- Action again felt much like a trued and coated Rem700, but at least at a lower price point
- I honestly would've preferred the XLR chassis of the lower end Premier Series LRP, would've easier to add something like an Arca rail to the XLR than their more custom one on the LRP Elite. Seriously though, the LRP Elite still uses keymod for attachments and only on the sides, seems useless.
- Skinny barrel contour would also start to string shots/walk a bit after 20 shots back to back
- Can't replace the barrel with standard Rem700-style offerings (no Remage for you, if you care) due to the cone bolt face
- Heavier than I'd want to use for hunting
That's the comparison I have. Note that I only really had an afternoon of hands on time with the Bergara and shot the TFM for almost 6 months, so my thoughts on the Bergara are more of a high level overview than an in-depth user review like with the TFM.
I have a HMR in 6.5 that has about 600 rounds through it with zero problems.It shoots .4/.5 with handloaded 130 Berger hunting vld's over 42 grains of H4350.The only complaint I have with the rifle is that I wish it had a heavier profile barrel than a #5 contour.
Shooting the bergara from the XLR chassis a a WORLD of difference from that Mega Orias chassis. I've had/have both and the XLR is so much better. Comparatively speaking that Mega chassis will beat you up.
I'm definitely a fan of the XLR over the Mega Orias chassis, even though it's just an Element chassis, but then again I also shoot an XLR on my own match rifle currently so I know I'm slightly biased. It's not recoil or anything for me, it's just general compatibility of attachments since I know a bunch of people make items like Arca rails for XLR chassis but hadn't honestly even heard of Mega Orias prior to looking up more details on the Bergara.
Yeah in my experience the XLR element feels like 50% reduction in recoil compared to the Mega. I've been told it has to do with straight stock design of the PRS vs the element having a right angle from the fake buffer to the stock. Apparently that bleeds off recoil energy. Whatever the reason, it's noticable.
When I was choosing, I looked at both the elite and the standard LRP. I didn't care for the Orias too much and chose the LRP with the element. I really like the element, and I was already using one on another rifle and was very comfortable behind it.
At this point I am looking for a rifle that I will be able to take hunting AND is a pleasure to shoot at distance.
I can shoot out to 800 yrds behind the house and plan to set my field up with some plates.
I've been looking at the CA Mesa Long Range or the Bergara HMR Pro.
I'm super interested in the 6.5 PRC caliber as it appears to be a "do it all cartridge" for my interests, however I have not seen anything offered by Bergara in this caliber as of yet..
Thank you for replying.
Thank you so much for this .. exactly what I was looking for .. I really appreciate this reply!
To expand a little on my previous post I can talk some about the customer service aspect of Christensen compared to what I know about Bergara. I have more direct experience with Christensen (used to work for a dealer), but a little bit of info on Bergara.
Christensen customer service is a little interesting in that you'll get better and quicker results if you work with or go through the dealer that sold you the rifle assuming you purchased from an independent dealer instead of a retail chain like Cabela's. There's a thread on this site (link) that detailed different people's customer service experiences with Christensen Arms, but from my personal experience Christensen cares more about feedback and concerns from dealers than customers because they only sell directly to dealers and distributors rather than selling to consumers themselves.
As a dealer we had access to additional customer support representatives and I was always able to get ahold of them on the phone and even have shipping labels for warranty problems emailed while we were on the phone with them. For minor things Christensen Arms also can authorize qualified dealers to handle issues themselves provided the dealer is willing and there aren't costs associated with it. As an example, a dealer can help troubleshoot the cause of an issue (loose scope base, improperly torque action screws, rifle won't group, etc.) as part of the dealer's own customer service without it voiding any kind of warranty from Christensen if the dealer calls and gets approval from Christensen Arms. This can involve a qualified dealer testing a couple types of ammo with your rifle or properly torquing all screws. Christensen prefers this because it means less cost to them if the dealer is willing to resolve these types of minor issues as part of the dealer's support (the dealer I worked for would first try to help customers find a good factory ammo if they had accuracy problems).
If this doesn't solve the problem or there are larger issues (warrantied component failures or damage), Christensen almost always wants the rifle to be returned to them for service. The only exception I ever saw was someone who had an extractor issue and they shipped us (the dealer) a new extractor to fix the problem since that's just a quick component swap. For items where component modifications are needed, the barrel needs to be removed/replaced, the rifle itself is needed (accuracy problems can't be fixed), or further evaluation is required it has to go in but dealer's can get free shipping labels for a customer printed if they have enough evidence of the problem. As far as I'm aware a customer contacting Christensen directly will almost always pay to ship the rifle to the company for further evaluation.
Bergara handles things a little differently, from what I understand, in that many of their sales go through larger distributors since they have higher requirements to purchase and order directly from them. The Christensen dealer I worked for could also sell Bergara rifles, but we would purchase them through a larger distributor such as Davidson's, Zander's, or AcuSport (there are more, and some of these may not carry Bergara, but these are just a few examples of this type of larger distributor) because it was less expensive than setting ourselves up to purchase from Bergara directly due to our volume of sales. This meant that our customer support options for Bergara rifles were identical to what the customer themselves had available since playing telephone through a distributor is almost never an option. I can't really say anything about the quality of customer service for Bergara rifles beyond this, just because I have no experience using it.
TLDR: If you buy a Christensen there are support benefits to purchasing through a smaller independent dealer with good support if that's a concern of yours, because they have some flexibility as to what they'll allow dealers to handle individually. Bergara customer support should similar regardless of where you purchase.
My hunting pard bought a Christensen Ridgeline in 6.5x284 and took it hunting to WY this fall. He shot a mule deer and cow elk (370 yds) and our other buddy used it to shoot a pronghorn (310) and a mule deer (570) all with a 130 accubond at 3075 fps. All one shot deals. My dealer tells me Christensen had some problems because they sourced out some things, but now things are done in-house except like the Triggertech triggers.
Based on his, I’m looking at one in 6.5 PRC...
Based on his, I’m looking at one in 6.5 PRC...
Full disclosure in case my previous comments came off as me advocating for a Christensen Arms over a Bergara because I stand to benefit from it, I no longer work for a Christensen dealer and have no skin in the game (nor could I help OP score any kind of deal on one).
My personal opinion is that if I were in OP's shoes knowing what I know now, I would purchase a Bergara HMR (not the pro version) and spend the difference (about $700-800 since the HMR Pro and Mesa Long Range are selling for ~$1,600) on purchasing a better scope than originally planned. Between the HMR Pro and the Mesa Long Range I'd prefer the HMR Pro for the detachable magazine, but assuming OP was originally planning to spend equally on scope and rifle ($1,600 apiece) the extra $700-800 would give a budget of $2,300-2,400 for the scope allowing OP to purchase some top tier glass for their rifle (used Kahles, Nightforce, Schmidt, etc. if they're bargain hunting here and on other forums) instead of more mid-range glass (Athlon Chronus/Ares ETR, Gen 1 Razor, Steiner T series, NF NXS, etc.)
My personal opinion is that if I were in OP's shoes knowing what I know now, I would purchase a Bergara HMR (not the pro version) and spend the difference (about $700-800 since the HMR Pro and Mesa Long Range are selling for ~$1,600) on purchasing a better scope than originally planned. Between the HMR Pro and the Mesa Long Range I'd prefer the HMR Pro for the detachable magazine, but assuming OP was originally planning to spend equally on scope and rifle ($1,600 apiece) the extra $700-800 would give a budget of $2,300-2,400 for the scope allowing OP to purchase some top tier glass for their rifle (used Kahles, Nightforce, Schmidt, etc. if they're bargain hunting here and on other forums) instead of more mid-range glass (Athlon Chronus/Ares ETR, Gen 1 Razor, Steiner T series, NF NXS, etc.)
I've never even considered the CS of a manufacturer when I bought firearms before, probably because I've never expected to have to send a firearm back or expected to have any issues with a firearm once it was purchased.. I'm still pretty much in that state of mind I guess .. why would I need to send a gun back if I'm paying around $2000.00 for it is my line of thinking? I guess it still is.
That being said, I see that a lot of people are commenting on the CS of Christensen Arms, good or bad this concerns me that they even have to call CS in the first place. Am I missing something here? Are my expectations to high?
Any thoughts on a good place to start looking for used glass? I sure wish Bergara made something in 6.5 PRC
I wouldn't say that at all, dropping that kind of money on a product is a situation where customer support for a defective product should be the last thing on your mind.
That said, all of the issues I've seen with Christensen Arms rifles has to do with their carbon fiber barrels. They make them in-house (instead of using something like a Proof barrel) and the problem is that they're either terrible or a home run, there's no in between and they're not consistently good. I suspect it has something to do with their carbon fiber weave, since the high quality carbon barrel makers I know of (Proof and Carbonsix) seem to use more of a carbon composite material similar to what you find in a golf club shaft versus the patterned weave of the Christensen barrels.
That said I have no inside knowledge as to what the issue is truly is with the Christensen carbon barrels, all I know is that they're inconsistent but I haven't personally heard of or seen issues with their stainless barrels.
Best place to look, IMO, is the exchange here on this site. I've seen some killer deals on some top end glass here in great condition, you just have to be patient if you're looking for a specific scope and reticle combination.
You should send Bergara an e-mail, I know they started carrying some calibers after they had enough requests for them. They already make barrels for most calibers (you'd be surprised which other brands all have Bergara barrels) so it is just a matter of them getting the action and stock to fit.
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