Citranox ate through a milk jug

[dmike]

Had a mishap this morning, figured I'd share it for anyone that uses this stuff.

like some people I use a very mild solution of citranox for case cleaning in my ultrasonic. There have been posts on the acid reacting with the brass and turning it pink etc so I don't go crazy and I rinse well. the stuff does clean cases.

I could only find it in a gallon jug (2x lifetime supply) and the jug was too tall to fit on my shelf. Being a chemistry genius, I decided to transfer it into a gallon milk jug (high density polyethylene/HDPE) about 7 months ago.

For those of you that don't use it, it's got a consistency between honey and motor oil. very sticky. Sometimes when I pour it into a mixing bottle to dilute it, a drop or two runs down the side. So when I noticed a small sticky puddle at the base of the jug last week I wiped off the bottom, didn't see any holes and figured it must have run down the side. Wrong

Last night when we got home...

Girl who won't get out of my house: Does something smell like rotten eggs?
Me: Duh, kind of
girl: did YOU cook eggs?
Me: Duh, no

we live in an apartment complex so I just figured it was the neighbors. Wrong

This morning the girl finds a huge puddle (maybe 14 oz or so) all over the garage floor. It was on everything...workbench and shelving feet, a case of ammo, some electrical wires, etc. It was especially reactive with the concrete.

Lesson learned, keep acids in their original container.

 

[BDA2]

Lesson learned, keep acids in their original container.

Didn't it mention that in the directions on the bottle.......?

Posted Via Glade Plug In.

 

[dmike]

Didn't it mention that in the directions on the bottle.......?

Posted Via Glade Plug In.

I don't know. I didn't expect hdpe to be unsuitable for a citrus-based cleaner. It wasn't muriatic acid or hcl, no heavy warnings or anything. Besides, if we read warning labels we'd never use Hornady one shot and all our mattresses and couch cushions would still have paper tags on them

 

[BDA2]

Those tags say "except by the consumer".....

Anyway, I agree with you on the warning labels. I never read 99% of em.

Did you get it all cleaned up?

Posted Via Glade Plug In.

 

[mark5pt56]

What's in the Hornady? Curious, don't have any either.

 

[dmike]

Those tags say "except by the consumer".....

Anyway, I agree with you on the warning labels. I never read 99% of em.

Did you get it all cleaned up?

Posted Via Glade Plug In.

Fair point! Yep, garage is GTG I'm just waiting to see how the reloading table holds up, one of the 4x6 legs got some on it.

BDA2, you got me thinking with your 7th post on the hide. I am a self-declared troglodyte, I see this forum as a tool to learn and share information. If I make a mistake and I think someone else can learn from it, I share it. If someone with more knowledge on the topic can educate me, that's even better. There are some trolls that try to make themselves whole by shitting on people, I get that. If your primary service to the site is helping other people confront how stupid they are, your talents could be wasted on me as I already know.

However, if you've got something interesting to add I'm all ears. Like if you're a chemist and you can tell me that the original container citranox comes in is LDPE, or PETE, or FUMF, or whatever the fuck it is and that I might try using the empty 5 gal bucket that rear differential oil comes in to safely store my remaining cleaner. Or if you're a concrete guy and you tell me that there's a brush-on sealant that's resistant to citric acid in case I have the problem again. Or if you're a hitman and you can give me some funny stories about how you used to use citranox to clean up the worksite but it kept eating through the milkjug you had it in and ruining the interior of your trunk of your kia, and one time the fumes from the shitty carpet knocked you out and you drove into a ditch.

Our capacity to communicate and share info is what makes humans great. If your message is "OP is an idiot" I thought I covered that in the first post so you could have just "liked" it and been done with it.

*Break*
In case anyone else uses the product:

Alconox MSDS lists 3 chemical components: Citric Acid, Glycolic Acid, and 2,2',2''-nitrilotriethanol.

Per a chemical resistance chart from a random plastics manufacturer (sdplastics.com) it shows HDPE as resistant to the first two, I have no idea what the third one is...that may be the culprit. Problem right now is I didn't have any other jug to dump it in except an empty windshield washer solution container, which is...you guessed it...HDPE. Anybody have their original citranox bottle that can read the code off the bottom?

 

[dmike]

What's in the Hornady? Curious, don't have any either.

Mostly hexane, I don't think it's that bad but the warning on the can makes it sound more scary. Some people claim it "allegedly" sucks ass as a case lube and is a good way to ruin a die but others swear by it.

 

[mark5pt56]

I did try a can one time, didn't really seem to work well. I have the Dillon and/or the Hornady tub of whatever it is, that does work well.

 

[pinklbd]

I have used milk jugs a couple of time for different liquids. Let's just say, stopped using the for anything but milk and water.

 

[BDA2]

Fair point! Yep, garage is GTG I'm just waiting to see how the reloading table holds up, one of the 4x6 legs got some on it.

BDA2, you got me thinking with your 7th post on the hide. I am a self-declared troglodyte, I see this forum as a tool to learn and share information. If I make a mistake and I think someone else can learn from it, I share it. If someone with more knowledge on the topic can educate me, that's even better. There are some trolls that try to make themselves whole by shitting on people, I get that. If your primary service to the site is helping other people confront how stupid they are, your talents could be wasted on me as I already know.

However, if you've got something interesting to add I'm all ears. Like if you're a chemist and you can tell me that the original container citranox comes in is LDPE, or PETE, or FUMF, or whatever the fuck it is and that I might try using the empty 5 gal bucket that rear differential oil comes in to safely store my remaining cleaner. Or if you're a concrete guy and you tell me that there's a brush-on sealant that's resistant to citric acid in case I have the problem again. Or if you're a hitman and you can give me some funny stories about how you used to use citranox to clean up the worksite but it kept eating through the milkjug you had it in and ruining the interior of your trunk of your kia, and one time the fumes from the shitty carpet knocked you out and you drove into a ditch.

Our capacity to communicate and share info is what makes humans great. If your message is "OP is an idiot" I thought I covered that in the first post so you could have just "liked" it and been done with it.

*Break*
In case anyone else uses the product:

Alconox MSDS lists 3 chemical components: Citric Acid, Glycolic Acid, and 2,2',2''-nitrilotriethanol.

Per a chemical resistance chart from a random plastics manufacturer (sdplastics.com) it shows HDPE as resistant to the first two, I have no idea what the third one is...that may be the culprit. Problem right now is I didn't have any other jug to dump it in except an empty windshield washer solution container, which is...you guessed it...HDPE. Anybody have their original citranox bottle that can read the code off the bottom?

Wasn't my intention at all. Perhaps we should just call it a misunderstanding.

Sorry if I came off as an asshole. Didn't mean to at all, but I can see how you would take it that way.

Again, my apologies.

Posted Via Glade Plug In.

 

[dmike]

Wasn't my intention at all. Perhaps we should just call it a misunderstanding.

Sorry if I came off as an asshole. Didn't mean to at all, but I can see how you would take it that way.

Again, my apologies.

Posted Via Glade Plug In.

No worries my friend, welcome to the Hide. Hope you get as much out of it as I do!

 

[vh20]

Post #6 by dmike is one of the most intelligent, funny, and well-written rebuffs to a "perceived" unprovoked attack that I have ever read. I put "perceived" in quotation marks because I sort of perceived it the same way as the OP did. I especially liked the self-deprecation of "If your message is "OP is an idiot" I thought I covered that in the first post." Brilliant! If it had been a real attack, that would pull the teeth right out of it. The hit man scenario is just entertaining reading.

On the other hand, Post #10 by BDA2 is a very mature, humble response to someone who seemed to be offended by something he didn't mean at all. Rather than becoming defensive and writing a rude reply, he was willing to look at his post from a different (OP's) perspective and apologized even though he didn't mean it as an attack.

Post #11 shows how things get resolved when both parties act like mature, intelligent people.

I have no idea why I'm writing any of this as it's none of my business, but I just thought that this was a very impressive exchange by both parties, and it seems to be rare (and refreshing to read) on internet forums nowadays. Kudos to both of you guys!

 

[dmike]

Thanks vh20! It seems there's hope for our little tribe...

 

[BDA2]

There are assholes all over in life. I know better than most thanks to my job. It's just not worth being a douche bag to people. Especially those you don't know. Hell, I might need DMike one day.

 

[arnie19]

Where do you get the citranox ? Do you have to order it or is there some commercial places that use it . I wonder if Simple green would work as well? Arnie

 

[dmike]

Arnie, I got mine online. Let me know if you can't find it I'll see if I can find the retailer. There are a lot of different ultrasonic recipes, I know I've seen some with simple green. citranox is a fairly strong acid, I believe simple green is mildly alkaline. SG is a great cleaner and I've seen at least one thread that suggestedacid isn't great for brass anyway. I will say, a little citranox and dawn does get it clean as all get out.

 

[BDA2]

Arnie, I got mine online. Let me know if you can't find it I'll see if I can find the retailer. There are a lot of different ultrasonic recipes, I know I've seen some with simple green. citranox is a fairly strong acid, I believe simple green is mildly alkaline. SG is a great cleaner and I've seen at least one thread that suggestedacid isn't great for brass anyway. I will say, a little citranox and dawn does get it clean as all get out.

So does leaving it in a vibe tumbler for 7 days with a walnut corn cob mix and some Flitz.......

 

[dmike]

So does leaving it in a vibe tumbler for 7 days with a walnut corn cob mix and some Flitz.......

I tried the vibe tumbler for a while but sold it. Now I follow this routine:
-deprime/anneal
-ultrasonic (15 min, removes carbon/lead/dirt)
-lube, FL size (or I can neck size w/o lube and skip next step)
-stainless tumble (3 hrs, removes lube/polishes)
-trim
-load

 

[BDA2]

Deprime. SS tumble. Lube and size. SS tumble. Load.

Fuck trimming.

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[arnie19]

dmike .I found it on Amazon .I called a bunch of local janitor supply houses and they never heard of it so no help there .I have so far just used the gallon jug of stuff that came with my sonic cleaner .Its a commercial one so it has plenty of wattage .I find though that the cases don't come clean but it does make every thing soft like mud and you can wipe it off but that's labor and time intensive .I find if I put it in the sonic cleaner for a cycle or two and then tumble in the SS pins for one hour they come out better than new looking . Im wondering if the heat is doing more than the sonic waves and if a guy put the solution in a deep sauce pan and slowly boiled the cases for about 15 minutes I might get the same results . Arnie

 

[dmike]

Arnie, not sure if this would work for you but my u.s. routine goes like this...after annealing I put about 20 cases neck down into a glass (started with beakers but went to 8 oz tumbler type glass). I make sure they're all standing upside down. I froth up some dawn for suds, pour in boiling water to fill the glass, then set the glasses in the ultrasonic with water up to the fill line. A shot (tsp/tbsp) of mild citranox solution (maybe 1:30 mix) into the glass right before starting the u.s. If I add the citranox too early it will pink the brass. 15 min run time, the water in the glass is now pitch black. Dump it out and rinse the cases thoroughly in the glass to remove all cleaners, then spread on a cookie sheet to dry. Extremely clean and pretty fast/easy. I stole an electric kettle from my girl and keep it plugged in by the cleaner, I plug it in right after I'm done annealing so it's hot by the time I get the cases in the glass. Pointing them down lets the sludge fall out I think

 

[AED146]

Holy shit that's a neat recipe at first I thought you were making a batch of meth

But on a real note what's the turn around time on a 100 piece load start to finish

 

[dmike]

Ballpark guess, broken down by "active" time (where I'm working) and "inactive time" (doesn't require my presence)
Deprime: 10-A
Anneal: 25-A
U/S:15-I
U/S pre/post: 5-A
FLS: 25-A
S/S: 180-I
S/S pre/post: 5-A
Inspect/trim (optional): 45-A

Total Active time: 2:00
Total Inactive time: 3:15

I'm not in production or trying to achieve max efficiency. The process itself is relaxing to me. I work in a high stress environment and I like how it helps me unwind after a long day. Plus studies have shown that execution of non-demanding tasks supports the incubation phase of the creative process, so basically doing menial shit like this can make you smarter. I am not saying this meth recipe process is right for you, load-n-go is fine too.

 

[dmike]

black liquid is after US; clear is after final rinse