Night Vision Clip-on decision: Voodoo S or M, or something else?

[Charger442]

I've conversed with a couple guys here directly about the Voodoos but wanted to open it up to the group in case there's other input I haven't considered.

Obviously the price is significant, and I'm looking to step up performance wise from my C35 to something on the high end of performance. I've considered the clipir line but agree with another user that the shape and bulkiness of the unit is a turn off.

Night time hunting I can see out to 900+ yards and would like to shoot to 600-700 with positive id differentiation between deer, cattle, pigs and coyotes.

Am I ignoring the Tigir or is that a consideration also? I think fixed focus rules it out

Voodoo S is what I've been focusing on for a while but the M might really be the better option at those distances.

 

[wigwamitus]

Voodoo S&M ( ) are the best we can (relatively easily) buy.

Have tested the S ... its solid out to 400yds (as far as we tested it)

White splooch of a target at 400yds

==

S of course can be swapped back and forth between head mount and weapons mount. Probably the only REAL head mountable thermal that also actually works as a clipon.

==
Both the S and M do have adjustable diopters on the rear. That's necessary for the S, but not clear what they were thinking with the M.

Since the S is both an HMT and a clipon, it needs the adjustable diopter. There are witness marks on the diopter ring and the housing and if you line those up you are set to factory collimation for shooting - BUT - to use this at night - we need to add some raised material on top of those marks (fancy tape). It would've been nice if the factory put some raised material on the unit for us.

The M also has adjustable diopter and its not obvious why ppl would clamor to try to use a real long distance thermal clipon as a monocular since the demagnified screen on back is so tiny. But this is the case !
==

These are essentially the "skeet gen 2" and the "utc gen 2" ... produced by some of the same ppl involved in making the original BAE Oasys line. Top notch stuff !

==

I don't think the issue with the Tig is lack of focus, though the symptom is "fuzzy image". Unfortunately I think its "something wong with the image software". Inside 300yds and under 4x magnification on the day scope the Tig is fine. But at those distances and magnifications, I'd rather just use a dedicated TWS. I want thermal clipons for longer distances - so I can use my day scope reticle to hold.

==
For over 500yds, you definitely want the M. There's also an "ML" available with a build in range finder. These are "built to order" so pay now and wait 60-90d lead time period. But they are obtainable. We have some in the pipeline now.

 

[Charger442]

Voodoo S&M ( ) are the best we can (relatively easily) buy.

Have tested the S ... its solid out to 400yds (as far as we tested it)

White splooch of a target at 400yds

==

S of course can be swapped back and forth between head mount and weapons mount. Probably the only REAL head mountable thermal that also actually works as a clipon.

==
Both the S and M do have adjustable diopters on the rear. That's necessary for the S, but not clear what they were thinking with the M.

Since the S is both an HMT and a clipon, it needs the adjustable diopter. There are witness marks on the diopter ring and the housing and if you line those up you are set to factory collimation for shooting - BUT - to use this at night - we need to add some raised material on top of those marks (fancy tape). It would've been nice if the factory put some raised material on the unit for us.

The M also has adjustable diopter and its not obvious why ppl would clamor to try to use a real long distance thermal clipon as a monocular since the demagnified screen on back is so tiny. But this is the case !
==

These are essentially the "skeet gen 2" and the "utc gen 2" ... produced by some of the same ppl involved in making the original BAE Oasys line. Top notch stuff !

==

I don't think the issue with the Tig is lack of focus, though the symptom is "fuzzy image". Unfortunately I think its "something wong with the image software". Inside 300yds and under 4x magnification on the day scope the Tig is fine. But at those distances and magnifications, I'd rather just use a dedicated TWS. I want thermal clipons for longer distances - so I can use my day scope reticle to hold.

==
For over 500yds, you definitely want the M. There's also an "ML" available with a build in range finder. These are "built to order" so pay now and wait 60-90d lead time period. But they are obtainable. We have some in the pipeline now.

That's great information. Still hard to choose though : . The current wait on an M is 90-120 days. The ML sounds interesting

 

[wigwamitus]

... The current wait on an M is 90-120 days ...

Ha, 2 weeks ago when we ordered our 2nd one it was 60-90 ... I guess they just keep turning that knob !!

There is another higher end new one on the way ... might be here around SHOT-ish, not that they were aiming for that - but might hit it by accident.

But depends on how much of a hurry you are in.

Of course 120d lead time puts you right around SHOT-ish anyway !

We're also waiting on the "New Armasight" Jockey 640 thermal clipons. I doubt they have the DOBA factory collimation to match the $10k plus units, but they have manual (software) adjustments like most commercial units. Timeframe on those is "hopefully before SHOT".

And the gen 2 Theons are also on the way "one day". There's another XELR unit in that mix, roughly equivalent to the UTCs. I have one of the gen 01s ...

The gen 01 ELR even fits on my mk18ish !

Plus of the Theons is they have 10 year warranty backed up by the USA distributor EOTECH. That got me to sell my UTCs and replace one with an ELR, currently waiting on the new mystery unit and deciding between a Voodoo or a Mystery.

On balance the ELR is a bit more finicky on image than the UTCs, but it beats them in open country, up to 20x on the day scope and clear image, but struggles a bit more in the wooded area I am currently in. But the ELR is by far the closest we can get to a UTC and as I said, on some nights beats it.

 

[Charger442]

any place out there where i can get the Voodoo S battery extender and it not be $600? i dont need extra batteries, i dont need a carrying pouch, i just need the screw in housing. or is the $600 just the price to pay to play?

any suggestions? im currently getting my voodoo order placed with Preston at SOK, maybe they know? @wigwamitus @SkyScrapin

 

[TheHorta]

Voodoo-M, if you want best-of-breed.

New xELR v2 will likely be the best widely available clipon with some form of .MIL heritage.

Voodoo will play nice with TracIR/iBEAM tech with an AB Raptar, MRF or MARS.

Theon will not.

May or may not be an issue for you.

nVision — get your ass in gear! 50-75mm BAE-cored clipon, please! Take a cue from the Andres TigIR, but with objective focus and same or better image processing as your Halo/Nox.

 

[jstokes1]

any place out there where i can get the Voodoo S battery extender and it not be $600? i dont need extra batteries, i dont need a carrying pouch, i just need the screw in housing. or is the $600 just the price to pay to play?

any suggestions? im currently getting my voodoo order placed with Preston at SOK, maybe they know? @wigwamitus @SkyScrapin

Unfortunately...you gotta pay the full price for one.

 

[Evolution 9]

Voodoo-S. Elk herd @ 1430 yards. Day scope at 4X.

As usual, PID was accomplished with a combination of animal location, movement, herd behavior, sounds (bugling is pretty obvious).

The M would definitely be better for this kind of distance but I’ve been impressed with the S. As usual, it looked better in person.

 

[Charger442]

Unfortunately...you gotta pay the full price for one.

im afraid i may have to. ive got someone contacting POT to see if i can get one.

 

[Charger442]

Voodoo will play nice with TracIR/iBEAM tech with an AB Raptar, MRF or MARS.

im thinking about upgrading my Raptar to one with AB. MARS would be great also.

 

[TheHorta]

im afraid i may have to. ive got someone contacting POT to see if i can get one.

Sounds like a super easy 3D print job to me.

 

[Max_R]

...

nVision — get your ass in gear! 50-75mm BAE-cored clipon, please! Take a cue from the Andres TigIR, but with objective focus and same or better image processing as your Halo/Nox.

Thinking about it. However, not all of your wishes will be granted, but it's too early to disclose which one we are going to ignore

 

[Charger442]

Sounds like a super easy 3D print job to me.

yeah i would assume so. i dont have one of those.

looking around my for something with AB.... looks like i need to save my pennies and or sell off more items i dont use much to get into a Wilcox MRF-Xe

 

[Max_R]

...
looking around my for something with AB.... looks like i need to save my pennies and or sell off more items i dont use much to get into a Wilcox MRF-Xe

There could be other options sometime in the foreseeable future.

 

[Charger442]

There could be other options sometime in the foreseeable future.

 

[Charger442]

ok... Voodoo S in inbound, hoping to have in hand in the next couple of weeks.

my next steps are to sell the C35, the Radius, and probably my Raptar ES (but only if i obtain another range finder first like the MRF Xe)

Then i guess the next real question is do i go ahead and get an MH25 to "bridge" with my PVS14 or spend the money on the MRF Xe? IF i can find one in stock somewhere which seems to be damn near impossible.

i know which way im leaning as of now but wanted some opinions from the guys here....

 

[Conqueror]

Did you get your voodoo direct from PoT or a dealer? I’m in the market presently.

 

[Charger442]

Did you get your voodoo direct from PoT or a dealer? I’m in the market presently.

Strictly offensive kit. @SkyScrapin

 

[Charger442]

Anyone know max magnification of daytime optic? I've been using a 10x top end scope.

Thinking about jumping up to 15x.....

 

[Evolution 9]

I’ve used mine to 10X and it definitely works but I’d say 8X is top end for most targets/conditions.

 

[Travis224]

I love my S (thanks Horta)! I love the versatility of using a day scope and sighting in easily then throwing it on. My Nvision Nox 35 gives nearly the same image but it dedicated thermal. I'm waiting on the Nvision clipon I've heard hinted but I'm sure that's a SHOT release. For my shooting out to 400yds, I'm happy with what I have currently, maybe a scope to bump the magnification of a day scope, but I don't know how willing I am to give up FOV.

 

[Charger442]

going to pull the trigger on the battery extender and then i can easily use the 18650s with my Nox and the Voodoo together. in the long run im not super thrilled with cr123 performance and run time.

 

[Travis224]

You'll want to verify, but I'm pretty sure that it is 16650s. It is that way with mine at least. So when I'm running both, I carry one battery of each. I do wish the voodoo had a battery indicator that told me when the battery was getting low. But for the most part the Knox and the voodoo have about the same runtime

 

[Charger442]

You'll want to verify, but I'm pretty sure that it is 16650s. It is that way with mine at least. So when I'm running both, I carry one battery of each. I do wish the voodoo had a battery indicator that told me when the battery was getting low. But for the most part the Knox and the voodoo have about the same runtime

you are 100% correct. in my mind i didnt differentiate. but you are correct, its 16650.

 

[Lojin]

I’m about to drop some coin on a voodoo s, but I always get nervous around shot show time. Does anyone know if POT is releasing a new unit, or core anytime soon? Thanks for any advice, will prob order tomorrow if you guys think I’m GTG.

 

[Evolution 9]

My understanding is that nothing’s coming out in the S line.

I believe Strictly Offensive Kit has one in stock right now (usually these are an order and wait type thing.

 

[Lojin]

Good to know, thanks!

 

[Charger442]

Just some advice, I had been playing with my voodoo as a handheld, then got out and had it on a couple rifles and was pissed off because the image was so shitty.

Well somehow in my handheld jacking around with it, I'd turned the gain up 3 and it was rough. Adjusted back down and it's beautiful once again.

Don't be like me. Leave that gain alone!

 

[Lojin]

Sounds like solid advice! I just grabbed a unit from Own the night as they had the best pricing that I could find. I’m very excited to get this thing!

 

[Dogtown]

It takes so much restraint to not click Add Cart on a Voodoo-M. I keep having to tell myself: "But you're just shooting steel"

 

[Evolution 9]

Do it. Feeding your family is overrated.

 

[Dogtown]

I divested myself of a TigR & NOX35 primarily because good 'ol I^2 worked better at night when shooting steel. Guess I've got to go with cooled thermal and that's not happening any time soon

 

[wigwamitus]

... I've got to go with cooled thermal and that's not happening any time soon ...

Be careful what you wish for

---

 

[Night Assassin]

@jstokes1 and others in the know, what video recording device are you guys running to get videos?
Also some of the images I see look like a filter is being used, images looks more blue. Is it just the SNB from Jay?
Thanks!

 

[jstokes1]

For those interested, I put out a Voodoo S review here this week. I also have a little Voodoo M footage in there as well with a full review to follow!

 

[jstokes1]

@jstokes1 and others in the know, what video recording device are you guys running to get videos?
Also some of the images I see look like a filter is being used, images looks more blue. Is it just the SNB from Jay?
Thanks!

I straight up use my phone with a GPS holder for image sample testing (I find that's the best way to get good/true 1 to 1 video of what the unit looks like to your eye) and a triggercam for action shots .

 

[upSLIDEdown]

good 'ol I^2 worked better at night when shooting steel.

Without a doubt.

 

[WhereNow&How]

For those interested, I put out a Voodoo S review here this week. I also have a little Voodoo M footage in there as well with a full review to follow!

 

[Dogtown]

Without a doubt.

I've become quite fond of running dual NODs w/ E-COTI. That kind of thermal overlay capability applied to an I^2 clip-on would be amazeballs, but I'm under no illusions that we're many years off from that being civie obtainable anytime soon.

 

[Charger442]

i swear i saw someone was using the Elcan behind the Voodoo... was it @TheHorta ? i couldnt find any info on centerline height above rail for the Elcans but maybe i am not looking hard enough.

 

[wigwamitus]

Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x from the manufacturer:

Magnification 1x unity 4x telescope
Length 153mm (6″)
Width 76mm (3″)
Height 76mm (3″)
Weight 640g (1.41lbs)
Illumination Source Battery powered LED (650nm)
Illumination Settings 5 intensity levels
Reticle 5.56, 7.62 STD
Eye Relief 70 mm (2 ¾ “)
Field of View 24° 6
Axis Height 39mm (1.53″)
Exit Pupil 8 mm (0.275”)
Zeroing Range ±60 MOA
Movement per Click ½ MOA
Mount Capability MILSTD1913
Mount Attach Dual Levers
Rain Sights Yes, Modular
Aiming Point 6 MOA dot @ 1X 1.5 MOA dot @4X
Operating Temp 40 to +65°C (40 to 140°F)
Storage Temp 40 to +85°C (40 to 180°F)
Environmental
Waterproof:
Shockproof:
66ft for 2 hours min
450 g’s
Battery / Life DL 1/3 N / Min 300 hrs @ max brightness
Finish Anodized with chemically resistant rubber casing

I'm going with "Axis Height 39mm (1.53")

 

[Charger442]

I'm going with "Axis Height 39mm (1.53")

So...... absotutely perfect then? Ok... looks like ive found my new optic for my 300 BO shooting subs and supers.

 

[TheHorta]

i swear i saw someone was using the Elcan behind the Voodoo... was it @TheHorta ? i couldnt find any info on centerline height above rail for the Elcans but maybe i am not looking hard enough.

Yup. Exact height alignment. Same with UTM-X.

Problem is, 1x on Elcan with Voodoo is wonky. Really only useful on 4x, but then FOV is heavily cropped.

A 1-8x or 1-10x LPVO works best.

 

[Lojin]

I got my unit over Christmas! I’m super excited to put it through its paces. I do have two 1.7 height mounts. Has anyone had any success with these, or is that too much of an offfset? I may have to just go to an absolute height for one of my guns. Does anyone know where I can get a lower 1/3 height shoe?

 

[jstokes1]

I got my unit over Christmas! I’m super excited to put it through its paces. I do have two 1.7 height mounts. Has anyone had any success with these, or is that too much of an offfset? I may have to just go to an absolute height for one of my guns. Does anyone know where I can get a lower 1/3 height shoe?

Thats going to be around the collimation height, but you might have some offset to account for.

 

[Lojin]

Gotcha, it will prob be easier to just get a 1/3 height shoe, or different height mount.

 

[jstokes1]

Gotcha, it will prob be easier to just get a 1/3 height shoe, or different height mount.

I haven't missed with removing any factory hardware personally, but a different mount for your day optic would be recommended

 

[Night Assassin]

I got my unit over Christmas! I’m super excited to put it through its paces. I do have two 1.7 height mounts. Has anyone had any success with these, or is that too much of an offfset? I may have to just go to an absolute height for one of my guns. Does anyone know where I can get a lower 1/3 height shoe?

Did you choose the S or M ?

 

[Charger442]

Yup. Exact height alignment. Same with UTM-X.

Problem is, 1x on Elcan with Voodoo is wonky. Really only useful on 4x, but then FOV is heavily cropped.

A 1-8x or 1-10x LPVO works best.

update to this: i went with a Vortex Razor HD 1-8.

 

[Evolution 9]

I got my unit over Christmas! I’m super excited to put it through its paces. I do have two 1.7 height mounts. Has anyone had any success with these, or is that too much of an offfset? I may have to just go to an absolute height for one of my guns. Does anyone know where I can get a lower 1/3 height shoe?

POT says (in the manual) that

1. You shouldn’t mess with the existing shoe

2. The side plate (held on by 4 screws) is removable and is for alternate shoe heights

3. You should contact them for those shoes.