Night Vision Clip ons clip ons clip ons!!!

DownRangeThermal

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Alright, I will add to this thread as more info comes in but wanted to get all the new stuff in one place. Finally we will have some serious options in the clip on category. Stand alone scopes are very popular in this country for good reason. They have everything you typically need and want for short range hunting. Recording, multiple reticle options, great resolution etc. Where they really come up short is in the long range arena. Utilizing a etched reticle from your day optic will always be far superior and exponentially more precise than using a digital reticle in a low mag stand alone. I could go on and on about why clip on units are superior beyond MPBR (maximum point blank range) but I'd like to focus on the products here.

One technical item to discuss here as you compare optics is FOV. Field of view is the best indicator of the long range capabilities of a clip on. The more FPA pixels you are jamming into a given area the greater the detection and ID range all other things equal. Obviously there are other pieces of the pie ( post image processing, display type and resolution, sensitivity, etc) but the best indicator of " how much mag can it handle" is FOV at full res. For reference the long range king of the uncooled long wave thermals is still the UTC series. Both the X and Xii have 6.2 degree fov which equates very roughly to 34 feet horizontally at 100 yds. So if you think in terms of " im spreading the 640 pixels of my thermal detector across 34 feet when viewing an object at 100 yds" you can understand how a narrower fov would enable you to have more pixels on the given target and therefore more ability to handle higher mag before detector pixelation occurs. Of course the tightest FOV may not be what fits your situation best. Keep in mind that even 5x utilizing your own reticle and turrets will get you some serious range at night time compared to a stand alone optic.

Lets get to the products. Obviously this is not an all encompassing list but wanted to talk about some of the new stuff on the immediate horizon.


COMM units

1. Steiner C-35
These should be hitting the market 1st quarter 2022.
specs
IRAY 12 micron 640 detector 50hz
35mm lens F1.0 12.5 degree FOV.
800x600 display

We've been given a sneak preview of the capabilities of this unit by the release of the 35mm s35 and h35 units from steiner. Both of those units have extremely impressive imaging. While the s35 and h35 have high res displays (1024 and 1280 respectively), the C35 comes in at 800. It is effectively assigning 1.25 display pixels to every detector pixel. While I like to see that number a little higher keep in mind that the benchmark (utc xii) is 1 to 1 640 display. Sometimes assigning detector pixels to more display pixels allows for a little optical cheating especially on higher FOV units. Honestly you're unit is only as good as its detector but smoothing of lines can be achieved when "upscaling" so high res displays are a nice option especially on a unit like this.
In looking at the specs I'm guessing that this unit will have a sweet spot of about 3x on your day scope mag and a range of 1.5 to 5x or so. One of the biggest remaining questions on this unit will be the mounting system. As of now the plan is to have a pic mount that interfaces with the c35 from the eyepiece ring. We'll see how that turns out. Should be a pretty solid med range unit with above average imaging and a quality aluminum housing. Steiner/iray have very impressive post processing software they plugged into these.

2. AGM TC50-640
1st quarter 2022
specs
Unknown Chinese 640 12 micron 50hz
50mm f1.0 8.8 degree fov
1024 display 1.6 detector pixel per display pixel

I have some limited experience with the tc35 384 units and the stand alone 50mm 640. I think this will be one of the best bang for the buck long range units this yr. around $5k will get you a unit that can take 8x pretty easily. Biggest questions at this price range is component/build quality and a very rudimentary post processing software that tends to struggle with gain control. Nearly all "polymer", the unit is very lightweight but at what expense? With the display and detector specs I'd bet on a sweet spot of 4x and a happy range of 2x- 8x. These units do allow for screen collimation but don't expect it to be plug and play with multiple guns as far as poi shift.
20220111_104009.jpg


3. Pulsar Krypton
1st quarter 2022
specs
BAE 12 micron 60hz
50mm f1.2 8.7 degree fov
1746x1000 display 2.7 detector pixels to display
unknown price until shot show

This is an intriguing product for sure. Great sensor, great display. I had a chance to play with a early production euro model back about a yr ago. The unit I had did have an issue with the focus but that was just an issue with that particular unit. Even so, it looked great. Much like the steiner the pic mount was an afterthought that had to be engineered after the fact......, it will interface with the eyepiece for the picatinny mount. In a perfect world they would have a body mount like everyone else but these euro models are always built to hang off of the objective for some reason. Sweet spot on this should be 4x and should have 2-9x acceptable range. Focus dial on top of unit and the long run rechargeable pulsar battery system should make it an attractive option in the medium-long range segment.

MIL Spec units

1. EOTECH/Theon Thermis
2nd or 3rd quarter 2022

MR
specs
THEON 17 micron 640 60hz
50mm f1.1 12.4 degree fov
640x480 oled display
price tbd $10-11k ballpark estimation

This is the medium range version of the optic that EOTECH will be importing from THEON Sensors in Greece. Warranty and US service will be handled by eotech.
Theon builds these entirely in house and is a major player in the overseas market. They are pretty heavy units since they have a very robust collimated eyepiece and all aluminum body. They are 50 cal rated and they utilize a raised objective design similar to a lwts enabling the unit to clear a rail mounted laser. eyepiece height above rail is the industry standard of 1.55 inches or so. Being a 12 degree fov optic it has a sweet spot of 3-4x and a comfortable range of 1.5-6x or so.

LR
Specs
THEON 17 micron 640 60hz
75mm f1.1 8.3 fov
640x480 oled display

$11-12k estimation

The LR version of the Thermis has the same body as the above model but with a 75mm lens. I used and tested this model. I was very impressed with its performance. repeatable POI on several rifles. Solid imaging capabilities. The different agc modes did take a little getting used to but once it was dialed in I was very happy with it. The 50 cal rating is very believable when you pick this thing up. It is like the pvs30 of thermals. heavy and built like a brick shithouse. It did have a compass built in. Not sure what the final "BOM" will look like or if there is any LRF display capabilities that can be tapped in to but I will update as info becomes avail. Sweet spot on this guy was around 5 or 6x and 10x was very usable. This will be a popular item at its projected price point.. I feel that the capabilities as a clip on fill in the gap between the lwts-lr and the utc. LWTS-LR falls behind as a clip on primarily due to the display resolution in clip on mode.

The second cell phone pic below is a house and hill top at 2200 meters. I was able to see a person walking their dog on that road with enough detail to tell them apart at that range.

20211129_194044.jpg
20211129_170844.jpg
20211124_085228.jpg





stay tuned...there is more ill add soon. Including a potential UTC replacement. :)
 
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The King

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    Many euro thermals mount only to a riflescope due to export laws changing when its a hunting only application.

    Pic rail mounts are specifically included in Military export authorization required.
     
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    shoots100

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    With the addition of wired + wireless remotes, battery options, better mounts and display's, the LR night hunter has a lot of choices now a days.
     

    EWS6

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    Is there any news to report on the commercial availability of drs iws

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    Terry Cross

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    Is there any news to report on the commercial availability of drs iws

    From the way it is used in the photos, it must be the equivalent of a modernized CRATOS.

    Very cool and I'm very interested.

    ./
     

    TheHebrewHammer

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    When the C35 drops, I will do a head to head comparison with the Yoter-c 640 that I have had for about 9 months. Yoter-c is awesome outside of nickel and diming you for mounting options and accessories, and no instructions with the unit. I am very excited for the higher end units to drop as well. Exciting time for clip on lovers.
     
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    LSUbeatUby40

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    Is there any news to report on the commercial availability of drs iws

    View attachment 7778144
    Sweet ass rifle. Can you give me a run down on it? Looking to build another and rather like this one..
     

    cake5150

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    I know who's stuff that is.... :)
    I have to ask, is the INOD in that picture (at least it looks like an INOD, please correct me if I'm wrong) really as good as people say? If the performance of my AN/PAS-13G at 200 yd was a 3 out of 10 for me, approximately where would that thing fall? The only MWIR device I have ever played with was a 13B(V)3, and I was fairly shocked with how far it could see.. Asking for a friend :D
     

    Bravo6niner

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    On the 17um theon/eotech unit I was talking to a dealer that has seen one and he said with a 4-20 day scope the menu was partial blocked on 4x. Said you needed like a 1-2x scope to get the full menu in the fov. Hope that isn’t the case on the production units!!
     

    rlsmith1

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    INOD for thee but not for me. I guess LEO is closer to civilian ownership than mil only though
     

    RKM556

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    INOD for thee but not for me. I guess LEO is closer to civilian ownership than mil only though
    I agree that that’s very stupid. As an aside, how much would an INOD even cost? I bet a lot more than the high end uncooled options due to the value of the sensors.
     

    rlsmith1

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    I’ve heard $75k or so. But can you put a price on MWIR capability?:ROFLMAO:
     

    Sigma

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    INOD will cost close to if not a bit more then 100k.
    Army/ navy pays 45-55k (depending on branch) but that’s because they order thousands of them at a time.

    You fellas wanting cooled devices shouldve bought my Flir Hiss when ya had the chance! Lol 😆
     

    NoLegs24

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    INOD will cost close to if not a bit more then 100k.
    Army/ navy pays 45-55k (depending on branch) but that’s because they order thousands of them at a time.

    You fellas wanting cooled devices shouldve bought my Flir Hiss when ya had the chance! Lol 😆

    Wonder if the buyer is happy on that purchase??🤔
    Go get F*ed Felipe…
     
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    Sigma

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    Wonder if the buyer is happy on that purchase??🤔
    Go get F*ed Felipe…
    Hi.. my name is Braxton. I am not Felipe. I have told you this several times now. Yet you remain delusional thinking my name is Felipe. Felipe is my friend. Yes. We’ve been over that. We have been over that a few times now actually. LOL chill out dude.

    The buyer paid $25 k for the HISS so I’m thinking he’s loving it to be quite honest. 👍
     

    Sigma

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    Beats me dude. This guy has been stalking my posts since Felipe got banned.
     

    Sigma

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    Here’s what’s really going on. This joker is tryng to get me banned as some harsh punishment for being Felipe’s friend, so he tries to get a rise out of me by poking at me in every thread I post in. In return he ends up ruining good threads. That’s it that’s all.

    Let’s keep this on topic… this actually has potential to be a awesome and informative thread about new technology!
     

    Sigma

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    Wonder if the buyer is happy on that purchase??🤔
    Go get F*ed Felipe…
    Tell ya what, show me concrete proof or even a smidge of dealings you had with Felipe that went south.. and I’ll quit this site and leave you to your own misery.

    That’s right ya can’t. And why? Because the internet chooses sides buddy. So when Felipe got into arguments and BS feuds (which he should of avoided as a business tbh) half of the main stays on here turned against him overnight. He never did shady business, he never fucked anyone over. @Eliteuas has 100% positive feedback and was here for commercial purposes. Arguing with chumps over the Internet got him booted… he lost some allies … but that doesn’t change the fact he’s a good dude and an honest business man. The MODS took his feedback rating down when he was banned, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t stellar. It was… im proud of my friendship with Felipe the owner of Elite Unlocked Aiming Solutions. Which FYI while we are on the topic recently had his rights restored , and was never a felon unlike the misinformation you jerks like spreading. He was 19 - 20 during his hospital stay for substance use. And you jokers pretend like ya didn’t do anything dumb as a young adult.

    /rant over
     

    WindstormSCR

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    Tell us how you really feel:LOL:
    How I really feel would involve more expletives and require explanation involving information I am not at liberty to disclose. so it will have to do. It does make me wonder how much less the unit cost would be if there was a more competent production engineer involved though.
     
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    R3H0R13

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    On the 17um theon/eotech unit I was talking to a dealer that has seen one and he said with a 4-20 day scope the menu was partial blocked on 4x. Said you needed like a 1-2x scope to get the full menu in the fov. Hope that isn’t the case on the production units!!
    I feel like this got over looked. If this is true what is the point of a long range thermal on a 1 or 2 power scope?
     

    Evolution 9

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    I feel like this got over looked. If this is true what is the point of a long range thermal on a 1 or 2 power scope?
    Most of the time, you don’t need the menu in view. You just need to be ABLE to have it in view.

    So, for instance, if you were using a Vortex 1-10, you could see the whole menu when needed to adjust settings, but crank up to higher power for observing and shooting your target.

    Thus, you’re not “using a 1 or 2 power scope”, you’re using a scope that can go DOWN to 1 or 2 when necessary.