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Sidearms & Scatterguns Coating options on custom 1911

JR1200W3

JR1200W3

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Apr 21, 2020
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I've been lusting after a classic Les Baer 1911 for some time. I own a couple of STI's, Staccatos, a Glock or two, and my only full size 1911'esque .45ACP is a S&W 945. Which is a beautiful gun but it's a big pistol. Of all the guns, I feel like a single stack 1911 in a leather holster OWB is the most comfortable carry option I own. I have a G43X MOS for IWB carry but my wife and I frequently hike in moose country. Last year we happened on a pair of moose and saw them before they saw us. Our dog alerted to them and we saw his demeanor and stopped. That allowed us to see the moose and we got out of there. A couple of months later a hiker got trampled by moose in that exact area. I was carrying the S&W 945 that day we saw them and I was glad I had a bigger pistol with a stronger round than the 115gr RMR Nukes I load for the 43X.

So I decided I finally needed a classic 1911 in 45ACP. I feel like the Les Baer pistols are the epitome of the classic, custom 1911. A worthy investment that can be a heirloom. I finally picked one up on GunBroker. It is an estate sale rescue and is very well used. The owner put some ugly G10 grips on it. I don't have any history on it. It is a CDR length, carry oriented model. I really like Les Baer's classic blueing and I like how it ages. But this pistol has some pretty good scratches. Although I like the classic rosewood grips on a blued gun, this pistol has a dark grey, stressed, battleworn thing going on and I bought some black VZ diamond checkering grips because I thought it would match the pistol. Then I saw the Black Bear on the Baer website and thought it would be pretty cool to have this pistol refinished with their DuPont coating. Black on black.
1000005784.png


I called them today and they quoted 4-6 months to be refinished with their Du Pont coating! Holy shit! That's crackhead addiction stuff. That's like camping out overnight in front of a Walmart on Black Friday to fight over TVs in a riot. That's like panic-buying toilet paper. I have too much self-respect to participate in those reindeer games.

I really like the idea of buying an old reliable Les Bear from someone that used it as their daily carry and revitalizing it for another couple of decades of trusting ones life with it. And Baer won't work on their pistols after another gunsmith has modified it. It would be great to have Baer refresh this pistol and keep it going but sending it in for a 6 month wait for a refinish is insane.

Who else could coat this pistol? I'm thinking an Ion Bond/ DLC coating service. Anyone have experience DLCing a complete pistol after the fact? Anyone know of a place that does good work with reasonable wait times?
 
Moose country is often bear country- and sometimes those bears are brown bear or even polar bear. For moose habitat you might want to consider a 10mm pistol with 15 rds capacity (shooting hardcast lead Buffalo Bore 220gr). The Glock models g20 & g40 have become fairly popular in moose and bear country like Alaska, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. YMMV
 
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Milf Dots said:
Moose country is often bear country- and sometimes those bears are brown bear or even polar bear. For moose habitat you might want to consider a 10mm pistol with 15 rds capacity (shooting hardcast lead Buffalo Bore 220gr). The Glock models g20 & g40 have become fairly popular in moose and bear country like Alaska, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. YMMV
Click to expand...
I've owned a 6" 10mm 1911. It was a behemoth. I would like to pick up a S&W 329PD one day. That would probably do it.
 
kentuckyMarksman said:
I had my 1911 coated by CCR refinishing in Tennessee. They did a great job on my pistol.
Click to expand...
I had them do their Cera Hide finish on a Sig years ago and they did an excellent job.

They even found an issue the barrel, it was out of spec from a precious owners mistake. I sent them a replacement and they installed it, checked function, all at no extra charge
 
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I really like my "duty coating" on my DW Valor.

I'm not sure what it is exactly, if it's a proprietary coating/treatment applied in-house, or something that's available at other places under a different name.
 
Baers aren't custom guns, .45 ACP isn't sufficient for moose, and 4-6 months is a blink in the custom 1911 world. That being said, DLC is a phenomenal finish but all about the prep. I have carried a few DLC finished guns that still looked new after being carried, competed with/shot in classes, dry fired, exclusively in/from kydex holsters. For DLC I highly recommend Steve Owen's of Integrity Arms.
712C3DFD-02FC-4991-828F-898851FC19F7.jpg
 
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Bigfatcock said:
Majority of finishes are going to get holster wear.
Click to expand...

Sure, but some are more resistant than others to it.

I like Birdsong, I have a rifle coated with it. But the coating on the bolt definitely shows wear after use. I'm not sure how well it would hold up to holster use.

However, I did just do a search for 1911's with Birdsong, and apparently it's the only coating Ted Yost will use. So that definitely says something.
 
kthomas said:
Sure, but some are more resistant than others to it.

I like Birdsong, I have a rifle coated with it. But the coating on the bolt definitely shows wear after use. I'm not sure how well it would hold up to holster use.

However, I did just do a search for 1911's with Birdsong, and apparently it's the only coating Ted Yost will use. So that definitely says something.
Click to expand...
It’s a good coating.
 
I own valor riflewerks in co. I’m a cerakote shop, I can get it done for you in a few days. Just did this one
 

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In Africa they like a sectional density of 300 + for dangerous game, they tend to know a fair bit about stopping big things.

Many focus on penetration depth, but to get to brain, outside of elephant, it isn't really about depth, this isn't generally a huge issue once you get to an appropriate caliber area.

The reason sectional density is so important is because it's an indicator of a bullets resistance to lateral forces, or, in layman's terms, ability to maintain straight-line penetration. Particularly in solid style bullets.

The 255gr hardcast in a 45 has a sectional density of 179.
The 220gr hardcast in a 10mm has a sectional density of 196.

Now you may think, well, both sound poor.

And guess what, you'd be right.

May they work, sure, but the probability of them deflecting and not penetrating to your desired location is greater.

So, what does that mean, well, it means, take the risk, or, get something better.

The 340gr 44mag hardcast is near 260, the 454 casull and like calibers usually have a bullet in that 250 area as well.

About the only handgun that has, at least production wise, bullets that get to that 300 area, is the 500 S&W, which actually has the 700gr hardcast that is a 400 sectional density, 342 being the recommendation for elephant in Africa.


So, get a 500... well, no, that isn't necessarily the point, the point is, calculated risk, use what you wish but understand what you're doing to best help your odds.

One thing I would suggest testing, whichever gun you choose, is a load with CEB mono-metal solids, test their penetration on some wood, phone book, dinner plates, whatever will get you to actually test it. Give them a chance and see. Of course, in handguns, hardcasts need to be tried as well.
But I'd make the effort to try the Cutting Edge Ballistics copper solids too, they may be more reliable in your weapon.

Plus, mono metal solids like that are longer for the weight, so they'll weigh less, but be longer, and their penetration usually follows that of the larger sized hardcasts.

In other words, they can be a bit of an exception to the "standards" of what one looks for in sectional density.

Expanding bullets, especially if you are going to stick with your 45acp, would absolutely not be recommended, you're handicapped with the cartridge already, don't further that with an expandable, it is still better than nothing, but find a solid.
 
FWoo45 said:
Baers aren't custom guns, .45 ACP isn't sufficient for moose, and 4-6 months is a bink in the custom 1911 world. That being said, DLC is a phenomenal finish but all about the prep. I have carried a few DLC finished guns that still looked new after being carried, competed with/shot in classes, dry fired, exclusively in/from kydex holsters. For DLC I highly recommend Steve Owen's of Integrity Arms.
Click to expand...
What's a "bink"?
 
calling4life said:
In Africa they like a sectional density of 300 + for dangerous game, they tend to know a fair bit about stopping big things.

Many focus on penetration depth, but to get to brain, outside of elephant, it isn't really about depth, this isn't generally a huge issue once you get to an appropriate caliber area.

The reason sectional density is so important is because it's an indicator of a bullets resistance to lateral forces, or, in layman's terms, ability to maintain straight-line penetration. Particularly in solid style bullets.

The 255gr hardcast in a 45 has a sectional density of 179.
The 220gr hardcast in a 10mm has a sectional density of 196.

Now you may think, well, both sound poor.

And guess what, you'd be right.

May they work, sure, but the probability of them deflecting and not penetrating to your desired location is greater.

So, what does that mean, well, it means, take the risk, or, get something better.

The 340gr 44mag hardcast is near 260, the 454 casull and like calibers usually have a bullet in that 250 area as well.

About the only handgun that has, at least production wise, bullets that get to that 300 area, is the 500 S&W, which actually has the 700gr hardcast that is a 400 sectional density, 342 being the recommendation for elephant in Africa.


So, get a 500... well, no, that isn't necessarily the point, the point is, calculated risk, use what you wish but understand what you're doing to best help your odds.

One thing I would suggest testing, whichever gun you choose, is a load with CEB mono-metal solids, test their penetration on some wood, phone book, dinner plates, whatever will get you to actually test it. Give them a chance and see. Of course, in handguns, hardcasts need to be tried as well.
But I'd make the effort to try the Cutting Edge Ballistics copper solids too, they may be more reliable in your weapon.

Plus, mono metal solids like that are longer for the weight, so they'll weigh less, but be longer, and their penetration usually follows that of the larger sized hardcasts.

In other words, they can be a bit of an exception to the "standards" of what one looks for in sectional density.

Expanding bullets, especially if you are going to stick with your 45acp, would absolutely not be recommended, you're handicapped with the cartridge already, don't further that with an expandable, it is still better than nothing, but find a solid.
Click to expand...
Let's not turn this thread into a 10mm vs .45 vs. 500S&W debate. Not the point of the thread.
 
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Lucreau said:
I own valor riflewerks in co. I’m a cerakote shop, I can get it done for you in a few days. Just did this one
Click to expand...
I'm specifically NOT looking for Cerakote on this pistol although I have a 2011 build that I will be. I'll hit you up when I get it to that point.
 
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Silverjay said:
Evolution Armory is highly recommended on 1911 addicts. I have never used them but read good things.
Click to expand...
I ended up speaking to Evolution Armory. They will not work on Les Baer pistols. But I have spent the last 24hours lusting after their 21 page thread on 1911 addicts. Amazing pistols. Seem like class acts too.
 
Bigfatcock said:
2 1911’s and a Hi-Power. Novak’s sent them in when I had them built.
Click to expand...
I checked out their website. Not much info on it. Chemical process. I would assume it doesn't add to dimensions.
 
I have Birdsong Black T on several rifles an one S&W Model 15 2". When I purchased the S&W, it was a very old beat up detective's carry gun that looked like junk. I received it back from Birdsong and it is perfect. Even my gunsmith ( Deep South Tactical) could not believe the transformation. The coating is amazing. There have been many reviews on the Hide, 911 Forum an Snipercentral. In one test, a gun was sprayed with salt water for 7,464 hours ( 311 days). One review article said that Walter Birdsong said that he NEVER had to warranty a finish.
 
Mike R at Tac Ops used Birdsong on all his builds.
For a long long time.

It takes time and costs.

But is like magic.

I would do it before dlc…..

Reminds me, I too have a 1911, one of great sentimental value, I would love to send to them to get coated in Black.
 
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Not the best pics, but.....
Black T on my Springer Pro and Garthwaite BHP- It wears and scratches, but does retain anti corrosion properties...
IMG_3344.jpeg


Baer bluing- probably the thinnest in the world, but I do like the way. it wears in...terrible pic. This is a crap finish for an outdoor gun that gets wet....
IMG_3345.jpeg


Wilson ArmorTuff- this is a "spray n bake" similar to CeraKote - chips and scratches- probably my least favorite.

IMG_3347.jpeg

Nighthawk with their Nitrocarburized/Tennifer/DutyCoat/Melonite type finish. Almost zero wear. super hard finish- Note that the natural color of these finishes is a dark grey- the black is added through a secondary application, often black oxide. This can be manually scrubbed away without losing the protective qualities of the Nitrocarburizing to look like a worn bluing.- See Nighthawk's Smoked Nitride finish and my CBOB below....

IMG_3350.jpeg


Dan Wesson with aftermarket DLC finish and a lot of surface prep- basically DLC is so thin that the texture of the metal surface comes through- this had matte rounds and fine brushed flats. It looks very much like grayish bluing, but it won't wear off. if you want the look off bluing without the wear, this would be the one. Zero wear after many years...
IMG_3352.jpeg


If you take fine steel wool to melanite/duty coat, you can wear away the black coloring to get quite close to the look of worn bluing.
but it will be "fixed" at whatever state you leave it. You can reapply black oxide to reverse the process.
The CBOB looked like the NH for many many thousands of rounds, so I had at it...
IMG_3358.jpeg


Newish blued against worn bluing, but such a bad pic you can't really tell.
IMG_3361.jpeg


Overall I would pick Nitrocarburizing for a) wear proofedness and b) metal protection, followed by DLC.

I would never choose a spray on coating, be it Black T, Armortuff, Cerakote or similar, the only advantage is (slightly) cheaper.
If all the DLC and Nitrocarburizers unexpectedly went up in flames, then Black T....
 
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Vulcan Machine Werks does great work. Did a Stacatto slide cut and DLC in a few weeks.

I assume they will do a full pistol—give them a call. They are not new to this.

ZY
 
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@Short-bus has been doing finishing work for a long time and is a well respected Hide member. I have a 1911 I had a bunch of custom work on that I'm about to send him to be DLC coated.. I know he's done a lot of DLC over the years.


www.clubcustomguns.com

Club Custom Guns Inc.

www.clubcustomguns.com www.clubcustomguns.com
 
Asiparks said:
Not the best pics, but.....
Black T on my Springer Pro and Garthwaite BHP- It wears and scratches, but does retain anti corrosion properties...View attachment 8289662

Baer bluing- probably the thinnest in the world, but I do like the way. it wears in...terrible pic. This is a crap finish for an outdoor gun that gets wet....
View attachment 8289664

Wilson ArmorTuff- this is a "spray n bake" similar to CeraKote - chips and scratches- probably my least favorite.

View attachment 8289666
Nighthawk with their Nitrocarburized/Tennifer/DutyCoat/Melonite type finish. Almost zero wear. super hard finish- Note that the natural color of these finishes is a dark grey- the black is added through a secondary application, often black oxide. This can be manually scrubbed away without losing the protective qualities of the Nitrocarburizing to look like a worn bluing.- See Nighthawk's Smoked Nitride finish and my CBOB below....

View attachment 8289667

Dan Wesson with aftermarket DLC finish and a lot of surface prep- basically DLC is so thin that the texture of the metal surface comes through- this had matte rounds and fine brushed flats. It looks very much like grayish bluing, but it won't wear off. if you want the look off bluing without the wear, this would be the one. Zero wear after many years...
View attachment 8289673

If you take fine steel wool to melanite/duty coat, you can wear away the black coloring to get quite close to the look of worn bluing.
but it will be "fixed" at whatever state you leave it. You can reapply black oxide to reverse the process.
The CBOB looked like the NH for many many thousands of rounds, so I had at it...
View attachment 8289675

Newish blued against worn bluing, but such a bad pic you can't really tell.
View attachment 8289677

Overall I would pick Nitrocarburizing for a) wear proofedness and b) metal protection, followed by DLC.

I would never choose a spray on coating, be it Black T, Armortuff, Cerakote or similar, the only advantage is (slightly) cheaper.
If all the DLC and Nitrocarburizers unexpectedly went up in flames, then Black T....
Click to expand...
Great post!
 
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padom said:
@Short-bus has been doing finishing work for a long time and is a well respected Hide member. I have a 1911 I had a bunch of custom work on that I'm about to send him to be DLC coated.. I know he's done a lot of DLC over the years.


www.clubcustomguns.com

Club Custom Guns Inc.

www.clubcustomguns.com www.clubcustomguns.com
Click to expand...
I've used short bus many years ago. Didn't know he does DLC now. Good to know.
 
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Rimfire Jesus said:
Integrity Arms has the job. He's going to DLC the pistol and will have it back before mid-January. He's got a couple of pistols to do so I'm just getting in to a batch. His customer service seems great. Good communicator and helpful.
Click to expand...
Whenever I need some small parts done I call him and he lets me know when to send them in to get in the batch he's working on.
 
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I have a Parkerized 1991A1 that I carry every day, and has gotten a lot of finish wear from training, practice, and a little IDPA. I've gone back and forth on getting it refinished, but I just can't seem to bring myself to do it. It just has too much character now.

Having a nicely worn finish from honest use isn't a bad thing.
 
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JoshPutman said:
I have a Parkerized 1991A1 that I carry every day, and has gotten a lot of finish wear from training, practice, and a little IDPA. I've gone back and forth on getting it refinished, but I just can't seem to bring myself to do it. It just has too much character now.

Having a nicely worn finish from honest use isn't a bad thing.
Click to expand...
I think you have more affinity to it when you're the one that put it there.
 
padom said:
@Short-bus has been doing finishing work for a long time and is a well respected Hide member. I have a 1911 I had a bunch of custom work on that I'm about to send him to be DLC coated.. I know he's done a lot of DLC over the years.


www.clubcustomguns.com

Club Custom Guns Inc.

www.clubcustomguns.com www.clubcustomguns.com
Click to expand...

Branden/@Short-bus is https://www.customguncoatings.com/category/gap/

He does awesome work, I've had two chassis's painted by him. Highly recommend. However I don't believe he does DLC type stuff.

I don't think there's an affiliation with club customs, but I could be wrong.
 
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Well. Steve at Integrity Arms knocked it out of the park. Had him add some Hi-power cuts, replace the dead tritium sights with a black U notch rear and a tritium front, and DLC the pistol. I added the Simonich gunner grips, tuned the extractor a little and the grip safety to release earlier. Really happy how it turned out. I bought this for carry and it's all business.

Went from this:
1000001235.png


To this:
1000004048.jpg

1000004054.jpg
 
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JR1200W3 said:
Well. Steve at Integrity Arms knocked it out of the park. Had him add some Hi-power cuts, replace the dead tritium sights with a black U notch rear and a tritium front, and DLC the pistol. I added the Simonich gunner grips, tuned the extractor a little and the grip safety to release earlier. Really happy how it turned out. I bought this for carry and it's all business.

Went from this:
View attachment 8330479

To this:
View attachment 8330483
View attachment 8330484
Click to expand...


Carry a 1911?

Shouldnt your grand kids get you back to your nursing home gramps??

Lemme guess, you like old Winchesters too????
 
powdahound76 said:
Carry a 1911?

Shouldnt your grand kids get you back to your nursing home gramps??

Lemme guess, you like old Winchesters too????
Click to expand...
Ha ha, a single stack in a OWB leather holster is the most comfortable carry in my opinion.

I did see a post the other day of a guy with a bone stock GI new/ reproduction Colt titled "Mailing the check today for my new 1911". I was like, "Jeez... Boring Clint Eastwood, save some pussy for Elon Musk".
 
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