Collet dies appear to be much cheaper where Bushing dies seem to have more flexibility...
Is one better than the other or is it more a matter of price??
Is one better than the other or is it more a matter of price??
Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
- Thread starter bcuzisedso
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Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bcuzisedso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Collet dies appear to be much cheaper where Bushing dies seem to have more flexibility...
Is one better than the other or is it more a matter of price?? </div></div>
I'm happy with my Redding S bushing Neck and FL sizing dies. I use them for 223, 308, 7 Rem Mag and 338LM.
I've used my Bersin concentricity gage/fixer set up for 7 RM and the runout is generally excellent using the body die/neck bushing die from Redding, on my Dillon 550b.
I'd like to fiddle with the Lyman M dies just to see what they're all about, but I've yet to pull the trigger.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bcuzisedso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Collet dies appear to be much cheaper where Bushing dies seem to have more flexibility...
Is one better than the other or is it more a matter of price?? </div></div>
I'm happy with my Redding S bushing Neck and FL sizing dies. I use them for 223, 308, 7 Rem Mag and 338LM.
I've used my Bersin concentricity gage/fixer set up for 7 RM and the runout is generally excellent using the body die/neck bushing die from Redding, on my Dillon 550b.
I'd like to fiddle with the Lyman M dies just to see what they're all about, but I've yet to pull the trigger.
Chris
Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
Lee collet dies actually make some pretty straight necks. They are less costly than bushing dies and don't require lube. You can order a few different mandrels and polish them down .001 or .002" if you want more neck tension....but a smaller diameter neck really isn't going to do you much good for neck tension any way.
Bushing dies are nice in that you can order a few bushings and experiment with neck tension rather quickly. With the redding you can also partial size the neck, where with the lee I don't think it can be done unless you shim the shell holder.
I've used both and the quality of the redding bushing dies are way better than the lee.
If I had to choose one die, it would be a full length sizer with a neck bushing.
Lee collet dies actually make some pretty straight necks. They are less costly than bushing dies and don't require lube. You can order a few different mandrels and polish them down .001 or .002" if you want more neck tension....but a smaller diameter neck really isn't going to do you much good for neck tension any way.
Bushing dies are nice in that you can order a few bushings and experiment with neck tension rather quickly. With the redding you can also partial size the neck, where with the lee I don't think it can be done unless you shim the shell holder.
I've used both and the quality of the redding bushing dies are way better than the lee.
If I had to choose one die, it would be a full length sizer with a neck bushing.
Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
I decided to go with Lee collet and Redding body die for two step FL sizing process. Originally used Forster FL w/ expander. I wasn't happy with how much the neck was sized down before expander opened it back up. Pretty much all the other FL dies w/ expander look to work the same way so no ding on Forster. Did a lot of reading and decided collet was way to go for me. I've only run 20 cases through it so far (got it last week) but it seems to work great. Set up was easy and the neck sizing is quick and easy too. No lube and minimal pressure on the press handle so it goes pretty much as quickly as you can get them in/out of the shell holder. Necks are sized to .336 and my loaded rounds are .337.
If you go the collet route you might want to check out this discussion.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?48671-lee-collet-dies-neck-tension/page2
I decided to go with Lee collet and Redding body die for two step FL sizing process. Originally used Forster FL w/ expander. I wasn't happy with how much the neck was sized down before expander opened it back up. Pretty much all the other FL dies w/ expander look to work the same way so no ding on Forster. Did a lot of reading and decided collet was way to go for me. I've only run 20 cases through it so far (got it last week) but it seems to work great. Set up was easy and the neck sizing is quick and easy too. No lube and minimal pressure on the press handle so it goes pretty much as quickly as you can get them in/out of the shell holder. Necks are sized to .336 and my loaded rounds are .337.
If you go the collet route you might want to check out this discussion.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?48671-lee-collet-dies-neck-tension/page2
Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
Crewchef,
I did the redding body and lee collet/bushing neck die for a long time.
For the same reasons, didn't like the over working of brass.
I realized that basically I was full length sizing in just two steps. If you still have that forster fl die, send it to Forster and have them hone just the neck portion to the exact diameter that you want. For example if you want a finished outside diameter neck of say .334", have them hone the neck to around .333".
You'll get the best combination with the best concentricity in my opinion by full length sizing with a custom honed neck.
This is the only way I size my precision brass now. This only works if you're using the same brass. If you mix and match brass brands, they may or may not have the same thickness around the neck of the case and it will give you varying results.
If that is the case then the lee collet/body die combo is a good one to use.
Crewchef,
I did the redding body and lee collet/bushing neck die for a long time.
For the same reasons, didn't like the over working of brass.
I realized that basically I was full length sizing in just two steps. If you still have that forster fl die, send it to Forster and have them hone just the neck portion to the exact diameter that you want. For example if you want a finished outside diameter neck of say .334", have them hone the neck to around .333".
You'll get the best combination with the best concentricity in my opinion by full length sizing with a custom honed neck.
This is the only way I size my precision brass now. This only works if you're using the same brass. If you mix and match brass brands, they may or may not have the same thickness around the neck of the case and it will give you varying results.
If that is the case then the lee collet/body die combo is a good one to use.
Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frogman77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lee collet dies actually make some pretty straight necks. They are less costly than bushing dies and don't require lube. You can order a few different mandrels and polish them down .001 or .002" if you want more neck tension....but a smaller diameter neck really isn't going to do you much good for neck tension any way.
Bushing dies are nice in that you can order a few bushings and experiment with neck tension rather quickly. With the redding you can also partial size the neck, where with the lee I don't think it can be done unless you shim the shell holder.
I've used both and the quality of the redding bushing dies are way better than the lee.
If I had to choose one die, it would be a full length sizer with a neck bushing.
</div></div>
I actually bought both the Hornady FL and NS Match bushing dies just last week, didnt realize they made both until I noticed the die had FL on the side and so i decided I wanted a neck sizer, too. So I ordered the NS die and more bushings since the .336" bushing wasnt giving any neck tension with the 308 Lapua brass. So now when my brass starts getting a little too snug when I chamber them, Ill FL size and then go back to neck sizing after that. Other than that, I like my Hornady Match bushing dies. BTW, the other 2 bushings I ordered were .334(Lapua brass) and .331(for my Win brass) RCBS Tungston Disulfide, they really dont need any lube though the inside of the neck might benefit from some as it goes past the expander. http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/142025/rcbs-neck-sizer-die-bushing-334-diameter-tungsten-disulfide
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frogman77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lee collet dies actually make some pretty straight necks. They are less costly than bushing dies and don't require lube. You can order a few different mandrels and polish them down .001 or .002" if you want more neck tension....but a smaller diameter neck really isn't going to do you much good for neck tension any way.
Bushing dies are nice in that you can order a few bushings and experiment with neck tension rather quickly. With the redding you can also partial size the neck, where with the lee I don't think it can be done unless you shim the shell holder.
I've used both and the quality of the redding bushing dies are way better than the lee.
If I had to choose one die, it would be a full length sizer with a neck bushing.
</div></div>
I actually bought both the Hornady FL and NS Match bushing dies just last week, didnt realize they made both until I noticed the die had FL on the side and so i decided I wanted a neck sizer, too. So I ordered the NS die and more bushings since the .336" bushing wasnt giving any neck tension with the 308 Lapua brass. So now when my brass starts getting a little too snug when I chamber them, Ill FL size and then go back to neck sizing after that. Other than that, I like my Hornady Match bushing dies. BTW, the other 2 bushings I ordered were .334(Lapua brass) and .331(for my Win brass) RCBS Tungston Disulfide, they really dont need any lube though the inside of the neck might benefit from some as it goes past the expander. http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/142025/rcbs-neck-sizer-die-bushing-334-diameter-tungsten-disulfide
Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
For you guys using the neck bushings, my concern about them was potential for donuts to form inside the neck. Is that really an issue and if so, how are you dealing with it.
For you guys using the neck bushings, my concern about them was potential for donuts to form inside the neck. Is that really an issue and if so, how are you dealing with it.
Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crewchef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For you guys using the neck bushings, my concern about them was potential for donuts to form inside the neck. Is that really an issue and if so, how are you dealing with it. </div></div>
Donuts are an issue that is independent of how the neck gets sized.
Donuts are caused when the shoulder material flows into the neck area. The shoulder is slightly thicker than the neck, so when the material flow durring FL or body sizing, it WILL end up in the neck.
Right now, I am using an obscenely long OAL (2.943) in 308 so the donuts are not affecting my loadings (30 reload cycles) yet. I can see the donuts at the botton of the necks. I further suspect that the <ahem> generous diameter of the throat (0.3445) would render getting rid of the donuts moot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crewchef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For you guys using the neck bushings, my concern about them was potential for donuts to form inside the neck. Is that really an issue and if so, how are you dealing with it. </div></div>
Donuts are an issue that is independent of how the neck gets sized.
Donuts are caused when the shoulder material flows into the neck area. The shoulder is slightly thicker than the neck, so when the material flow durring FL or body sizing, it WILL end up in the neck.
Right now, I am using an obscenely long OAL (2.943) in 308 so the donuts are not affecting my loadings (30 reload cycles) yet. I can see the donuts at the botton of the necks. I further suspect that the <ahem> generous diameter of the throat (0.3445) would render getting rid of the donuts moot.
Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
You won't get donuts if you lube the necks before running them into the die. On unlubed necks, material does sometimes get pushed down the neck and can lead to a donut. Lubing the necks will also give you lower runouts.
Collet dies are designed to work with cases that have a certain neck thickness (domestic brands). The rounded part of the collet is a certain diameter. If your case necks are too thin, the center of the fingers are squeezing the necks harder than the edges. Sizing the case, then rotating it helps minimize the effect. However, if the necks are too thick, the edges of the fingers are squeezing the necks more than the centers. Even if you size and rotate, you will likely end up messing up the necks in the long run.
Either one will work well if used correctly, but both also have potential pitfalls that can give you headaches. I like the collet die on over-sized factory chambers, but prefer to use Redding FL bushing dies on tighter chambers. I design my chamber reamers around Redding FL bushing dies.
You won't get donuts if you lube the necks before running them into the die. On unlubed necks, material does sometimes get pushed down the neck and can lead to a donut. Lubing the necks will also give you lower runouts.
Collet dies are designed to work with cases that have a certain neck thickness (domestic brands). The rounded part of the collet is a certain diameter. If your case necks are too thin, the center of the fingers are squeezing the necks harder than the edges. Sizing the case, then rotating it helps minimize the effect. However, if the necks are too thick, the edges of the fingers are squeezing the necks more than the centers. Even if you size and rotate, you will likely end up messing up the necks in the long run.
Either one will work well if used correctly, but both also have potential pitfalls that can give you headaches. I like the collet die on over-sized factory chambers, but prefer to use Redding FL bushing dies on tighter chambers. I design my chamber reamers around Redding FL bushing dies.
Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
You can count me as one of those that use a body die and a collet die as a FL resize two step process.
My theory was always that a collet would be better to make sure the inside of the case is as uniform as the outside but, if you are turning your necks this should not be an issue with a bushing die.
You can count me as one of those that use a body die and a collet die as a FL resize two step process.
My theory was always that a collet would be better to make sure the inside of the case is as uniform as the outside but, if you are turning your necks this should not be an issue with a bushing die.
Re: Collets or Bushings for neck sizing?
I bought a lee collet die because I was tight on money when i first started loading. Although for some it's important to have a specific neck tension, I'm ok as long as its consistent and concentric, which the Lee does perfectly well.
I did try the neck bushing dies from redding and I didn't see any improvement in accuracy at all... in turn I personally felt I didn't need them and I remain with my Lee collet die. YRMV
I bought a lee collet die because I was tight on money when i first started loading. Although for some it's important to have a specific neck tension, I'm ok as long as its consistent and concentric, which the Lee does perfectly well.
I did try the neck bushing dies from redding and I didn't see any improvement in accuracy at all... in turn I personally felt I didn't need them and I remain with my Lee collet die. YRMV
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