Combat shooting

[STA TACTICAL]

Guys I wanted to post this beacuse I feel strongly about this subject... Ive seen in the past where guys think they can actually shoot beacuse they hit a tgt at 800 meters in the prone in perfect world thats pretty easy... I can train a monkey to shoot at 800 meters in the prone with a rifle that holds a minute.. Now lets switch it up a little bit lets say its 120 degrees you have rounds coming towards you and you are running gunning!! Now do you think you are able to still engage targets and nuetralize them with accurate shots from any position at anytime... This is were our basic fundamentals really need to kick in in situations like this we must train ourselves to this standard beacuse as a True Sniper you should be able to to engage targets and nuetralize them from any postion at anytime. Have a good one gents!!

 

[Hogstooth]

Re: Combat shooting

I won't argue with your point but..... I think a good portion of the people who frequent this site on a regular basis are not going to combat?

Even the ones that are going to combat are not coming here for training, I'm sure that most of the Tier III, II, and I groups have some sort of training in place. Even if they don't, any good platoon sgt worth his salt is going to make sure that he gets as many of his guys school trained before deploying. That is the bare minimum someone could get in the military, you won't get much learning about combat by reading here on an internet forum.

Anything that you read you would have to go out and prac app to make sure it works for the environment and meets your employment needs.

True Sniper senario training is fairly difficult, that is why military snipers are given training in every facet of fieldcraft and employment. The standards are extremely high also because the skill sets need to be mastered, because in combat one of those skill sets may save your ass or someone elses.

Perfect example
http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,102328,00.html

If they had just been sitting on their asses they would have never seen the insurgents, but attention to detail and probably countless hours behind the glass doing observation exersises paid off. The untrained eye would have probably never seen it, and they saved the lives of Marines that day.

There are also several training institutions like Rifles Only that are training various groups and using their after actions to develop their training ciriculum (sp?)

Also there are a ton of matches that are setting stages up based on real events or senarios, if you haven't shot some of these matches I would recommend you get out there. They are alot of fun and you learn alot about how you might do in combat!!

"You seen any combat?.... I seen a little on TV!!"

Semper Fi

 

[STA TACTICAL]

Re: Combat shooting

True that is a very valid point.. I agree with you totally I just wish that these new guys that come out of basic that think they know everything become humble beacuse you know as well as I do once they get that hogs tooth around there neck all of the sudden training stops and you see it all the time always shooting in the prone and not challenging them selves when there on the range. They would rather thrash pigs then teach them... Not saying trashing pigs is bad beacuse Ive done my fair share

just saying thou we have to get out of the cowboy mentallty

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Combat shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STA TACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">True that is a very valid point.. I agree with you totally I just wish that these new guys that come out of basic that think they know everything become humble beacuse you know as well as I do once they get that hogs tooth around there neck all of the sudden training stops and you see it all the time always shooting in the prone and not challenging them selves when there on the range. They would rather thrash pigs then teach them... Not saying trashing pigs is bad beacuse Ive done my fair share

just saying thou we have to get out of the cowboy mentallty </div></div>

Good Lord dude, everything you post gives me a damn headache....

The US military is the best trained fighting force on the planet.

 

[Graham]

Re: Combat shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STA TACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive seen in the past where guys think they can actually shoot beacuse they hit a tgt at 800 meters in the prone in perfect world thats pretty easy... I can train a monkey to shoot at 800 meters in the prone with a rifle that holds a minute.. Now lets switch it up a little bit lets say its 120 degrees you have rounds coming towards you and you are running gunning!! Now do you think you are able to still engage targets and nuetralize them with accurate shots from any position at anytime... This is were our basic fundamentals really need to kick in in situations like this we must train ourselves to this standard beacuse as a True Sniper you should be able to to engage targets and nuetralize them from any postion at anytime. Have a good one gents!! </div></div> OK. I won't argue; that's your opinion.

So, how would you do that: How would you suggest that one train for that?

 

[Lowe Left]

Re: Combat shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STA TACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive seen in the past where guys think they can actually shoot beacuse they hit a tgt at 800 meters in the prone in perfect world thats pretty easy... I can train a monkey to shoot at 800 meters in the prone with a rifle that holds a minute.. </div></div>

You're a vendor right? You want people (or monkeys) to purchase items from you so that you can profit, right? hmmmm...

 

[mission_fail]

Re: Combat shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STA TACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">True that is a very valid point.. I agree with you totally I just wish that these new guys that come out of basic that think they know everything become humble beacuse you know as well as I do once they get that hogs tooth around there neck all of the sudden training stops and you see it all the time always shooting in the prone and not challenging them selves when there on the range. They would rather thrash pigs then teach them... Not saying trashing pigs is bad beacuse Ive done my fair share

just saying thou we have to get out of the cowboy mentallty </div></div>

I agree with this in that it's dangerous when that mentality occurs. Command structure (plt level) needs to be able to identify and do something to halt further progression of that "I'm a hog so I'm as trained as I need to be" mentality. I've found that you have to be popular to be taken seriously in the military though. It all seems to be on the good ol' boy system.

On training to shoot in stress, a good place to start is to shoot after exertion (always keeping safety in mind of course). A short sprint to your rifle and making a shot is a helpful exercise. Doing the same thing and running a dot drill is another. I guess I should have just said any drill preceded by a short run or sprint. Or it could be a long run if you have the time.

 

[Win_Easy]

Re: Combat shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STA TACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys I wanted to post this beacuse I feel strongly about this subject... Ive seen in the past where guys think they can actually shoot beacuse they hit a tgt at 800 meters in the prone in perfect world thats pretty easy... I can train a monkey to shoot at 800 meters in the prone with a rifle that holds a minute.. Now lets switch it up a little bit lets say its 120 degrees you have rounds coming towards you and you are running gunning!! Now do you think you are able to still engage targets and nuetralize them with accurate shots from any position at anytime... This is were our basic fundamentals really need to kick in in situations like this we must train ourselves to this standard beacuse as a True Sniper you should be able to to engage targets and nuetralize them from any postion at anytime. Have a good one gents!! </div></div>

While I agree that it's important to practice for more "real world" scenarios. It is also not a common occurrence, or even realistic for that matter for even some military snipers let-alone civilians to <span style="font-weight: bold">accurately</span> engage targets 800+ yards away while doing fire and manoeuvre type tactics. Especially with "bullets flying over head," rapid heart beat, and heavy breathing. In the civilian world you would be hard pressed to find yourself in a situation where you need to be good at run and gun in 120+ degree weather with a sniper rifle, outnumbered, with no means of egress, and no ability to disengage. Never mind the fact that the chances of a civi actually having to use a long range precision rifle is already a million to one odds. Just my two cents.

 

[Hogstooth]

Re: Combat shooting

You can do all the physical exsertion that you want but it will not mimic the stress of combat, there have been several studies that show this.

The closest I have felt is the instant heart rate acceleration, fear, nervousness all at once when you have to confront someone because of your job, anger, or defense (situations that put you in fight or flight mode). The Military does a pretty good job of training for this by having priority of work, and leadership building. Some people are good at it, others are not?

The only way in which I think that you could simulate this is to have physical exertion coupled with having to solve a near impossible task in impossible time. This way you have multiple things going on and not enough time to do it, you would never win the said senario. Instructors would have to say that it is feasible to do it, and run the said senario or senarios over and over again expecting perfection.

Then give the same senarios in a doable time limit without telling the student/s, until after the first time they accomplish it. Once the relief of stress is over they will be able to accomplish the nearly impossible task fairly easily within reasonable (still strict) time limits.

Its just a theory, but an old Plt Sgt once told me, you give Marines 3 days to accomplish a mission, it will take them 3 days. You give them 3 min. they will do it in 3 min., you always got to push the limits of what they can do!!

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Combat shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Combat Shooting

Guys I wanted to post this beacuse I feel strongly about this subject... </div></div>

Who doesn't. I'm an old man and not in the game any more but I do remember we trained for such and we did such in combat. I don't know what it's called now but in my time we called it Bounding Overwatch.

Now I just shoot for fun and I'm not worried about it.

 

[sosicmcise]

Re: Combat shooting

Daaaaang! Combat is soooo cool these days! What a great place to showcase your skillz dawg! Maybe i should re-enlist!

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Combat shooting

I tried to but they told me I was too old and my eyesight was too bad.

Told 'em, screw it!!! The grunts never called the right color smoke when they popped it, they never had the grid co-ords right, and I always closed my eyes when I landed because I was skeered I wuz gonna crash anyway, so I didn't need to see.

Told 'em, screw it!!! I'm freakin 60 years old!!! I don't have enough time left to put in 20 and draw retirement.

But they still wouldn't take me.

Bastards!!!!