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Concentricity

Chiller

Moderator
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Dec 18, 2008
    6,133
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    Sole resident of Mt. Crumpit.
    Please tell me your thoughts on concentricity.
    Here is my conundrum.
    7mmWSM new brass (Winchester)
    Trimmed
    I am using Redding Competition Dies. I am seeing as much as .004-.005 out of round. In that this is new brass will it “flow” and bring my numbers back into the sub .002 that I am seeing with my .260. Would love to hear your thoughts.
     
    Re: Concentricity

    The out of round "number" depends on where it is measured. For example, the closer you are to the tip of the bullet, the larger the "number" can be - it's just geometry. So, the only good number is zero. I measure at slightly different places, depending on what cartridge I am using. Typically it's about 3/8" to 1/2" from the edge of the case neck along the shank of the bullet near the beginning of the ogive. I get numbers like yours and am not suprised at 0.002"-0.004" from low to high spots, even in reloaded cases that have been full-length resized in Redding dies using a neck bushing.

    I don't believe in pushing on one side of the bullet to get better numbers as this distorts the round shape of the neck and makes it an oval. I haven't yet figured out how to make the necks more concentric, but then I haven't really worried about it either.

    One way to demonstrate whether it makes a difference is to measure, say, 10 rounds and find the high or low spot and mark it with a Sharpie. Go to the range and fire the 10 rounds carefully at a 100 yard target, orienting the rounds so that the mark on the high spot is on top in the chamber each time. Then shoot 10 more rounds without orienting them and see whether there is a difference in the shot pattern. If your runout makes a difference, there should be a visible vertical pattern on the first target, and a more circular one on the second.
     
    Re: Concentricity

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HumungoSpheres</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are seeing this much run out, and are seating the bullet in two stages, try to loosen the die and allow the case body to align the die to the threads. Barely start the bulet into the case and rotate 180 degrees and finish with a smoooth stroke. Also be sure you are rotating the case on the solid head portion of the body when checking RO, as the previousily expanded case body will not be kind.

    If when sizing the original fired brass you did not use a similiar start and rotate and finish stroke... mis-alignment of the die body could be a culprit.

    Remember when a case is fired the portion due to gravity which lies on the chamber bottom doesn't expand as does that which is facing the roof, which of course has lots of potential for upward mobility...

    You can mark the high spots and align in the chamber to fire and in so doing eliminate this horrible condition... The easy way out.

    When spinning the bullet, measure the shank, not the ojive for RO numbers.

    D </div></div>

    1) you are up past my bedtime....
    laugh.gif


    2) will be calling to talk tomorrow. (you tell em the time)

    My concern is doing the load testing on monday I want to have them be as good as I can make...
     
    Re: Concentricity

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The out of round "number" depends on where it is measured. For example, the closer you are to the tip of the bullet, the larger the "number" can be - it's just geometry. So, the only good number is zero. I measure at slightly different places, depending on what cartridge I am using. Typically it's about 3/8" to 1/2" from the edge of the case neck along the shank of the bullet near the beginning of the ogive. I get numbers like yours and am not suprised at 0.002"-0.004" from low to high spots, even in reloaded cases that have been full-length resized in Redding dies using a neck bushing.

    I don't believe in pushing on one side of the bullet to get better numbers as this distorts the round shape of the neck and makes it an oval. I haven't yet figured out how to make the necks more concentric, but then I haven't really worried about it either.

    One way to demonstrate whether it makes a difference is to measure, say, 10 rounds and find the high or low spot and mark it with a Sharpie. Go to the range and fire the 10 rounds carefully at a 100 yard target, orienting the rounds so that the mark on the high spot is on top in the chamber each time. Then shoot 10 more rounds without orienting them and see whether there is a difference in the shot pattern. If your runout makes a difference, there should be a visible vertical pattern on the first target, and a more circular one on the second. </div></div>

    Will take a look at this for Monday. Load testing will be in full swing....

    I just want to make sure I can control what I can...
     
    Re: Concentricity

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HumungoSpheres</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, just returned from a PBS fund raisr at the Hilton... nice time for all.

    Call around 10:30 AM or after 3 PM...

    Not as big a problem as you think... especially if seating into the lands as previousily discussed.

    Bedtime... I don't have no stinkin bedtime... </div></div>

    Seating long..2.97

    Just not sure that I am into the lands...
     
    Re: Concentricity

    If you are using a Redding comp seater die you shouldn't have to do the multi-turn thing while seating.

    I would check the brass real good and make sure the inside the case necks are clean. I use a new bore brush in a screwdriver handle from RCBS. I twist some 4/0 steel wool into the bristles of the brush and use that to get all the carbon out. Twist while pushing in, then twist while pulling it out. That gets mine clean and back to the less than .002" runout.
     
    Re: Concentricity

    Ditto on the bore bush and steel wool! I chuck it up in my cordless and give them a quick spin.

    I also removed the snap ring that holds the shell holder into my ram. I replaced it with a rubber O-ring to hold it in place! I found that the snap ring was putting pressure onto my shell holder not fully allowing it to sit flush on the top of the ram!

    DSC00383.jpg


    I also keep all the old tooth brushes for the bench! I always wipe of the top of the ram prior to each loading session and take a tooth brush to the shell holder. Clean is good!

    As for the Redding die! Victor is correct! You should not have to spin the case to get your run-outs below .003 with them!

    Wilson Straight line seater's are the same! There was a article some where that they compared all the top name dies for run-outs. Redding and Wilson was at the top!

    Terry
     
    Re: Concentricity

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please tell me your thoughts on concentricity.
    Here is my conundrum.
    7mmWSM new brass (Winchester)
    Trimmed
    I am using Redding Competition Dies. I am seeing as much as .004-.005 out of round. In that this is new brass will it “flow” and bring my numbers back into the sub .002 that I am seeing with my .260. Would love to hear your thoughts.
    </div></div>

    Have you checked the case wall thickness at the mouth?
    Did you turn the neck?


    John