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Conclusion of GAP thread

bsp212

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 15, 2007
468
0
49
Porter, TX
I made a commitment to several members via email and PM to post the outcome of the following thread regarding an extractor install at GAP. I said I would post the outcome whichever direction it went when I had the bolt in hand because the thread was locked before it was resolved. Several can attest to this as I edited a post in another thread to reflect the same - before I received the bolt. Here's the thread:

http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1383849&page=1

Now, before I get started, I will say this since I was questioned before about what I have done for this site and what I do to financially support it. I, like the majority of the members here, are not paid sponsors and do not have a product to sell nor care to for that matter. The shooting industry, paid sponsors, and this site are for the most part supported by people like me, a consumer and shooting enthusiast. I use this site and others for an information bank and social networking so remember when you're flaming me, I'm the kind of guy that supports this stuff.

Back on topic. A commitment was made to have my work completed and shipped back to me by a certain date after the original communication breakdown. This was met and I received my bolt with the extractor installed on Friday of last week. Saturday morning, I made a trip to my smith to have the bolt nose recess opened up on my rifle as the extractor was something I decided to do after a build was completed. The barrel was pulled, recess opened to spec, and the rifle was reassembled. Next, my smith rechecked the headspace to make sure nothing had changed. At this point everything was good to go so it was time to test the function. A round was loaded and chambered and the bolt closed but would not extract the round. The bolt was pulled and the extractor was galling or sticking or binding (or whatever you want to call it because I'm not a metalurgist) on the bolt body. You could work the extractor back and forth with your fingers and it would stick causing it to be open just enough to not extract the round from the chamber. Next, the roll pin was pushed out and at it was evident the extractor was binding on the bolt for about 2/3" from the bolt nose back to the pivot point. My smith fixed it and now it works. Honestly, I kind of felt like it should have dropped in and worked after opening the recess to spec, but it didn't. This was not the most desirable outcome on my end to this but, it's done, it's fixed, it's over. I learned a lot on this one.....

The end.

Flame on,
bsp212
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

I clicked the link..... Why didn't I listen???
shocked.gif
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I clicked the link..... Why didn't I listen???
shocked.gif
</div></div>

I took his advice and passed.
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

The extractor worked flawless when it left here, the extractor is hard, the bolt is tough but not hard, there should be no way for it to gaul. Possibly your smith should have installed it for you, why did you send it to us anyway?? Did your smith check if it was machined to the Badger print? Becouse I guarantee it was, Kinda hard for a Mori-Seki MV with sharp tooling to to screw up. Sorry but this is fishy, I have installed hundreds of these without any issue.
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

I sent it to you because of the 1 day turnaround I was quoted by Kerry instead of the "1 month or so" turnaround I was quoted by my smith. I don't think the problem was with the cut in the bolt but with the tolerances on the extractor itself.

Nothing fishy about it, just facts.

Here's a quote from a PM to bigjohnintexas:

"When I have my bolt in my hand I will edit this post to show it is resolved and will post a public thanks to George. That is my plan. I am a stand-up guy and will not let it go so that people think it wasn't handled. Like I said though, it will be bolt in hand."

I sent this to him on 10/16/09, ask him. Also changed a post on another thread to reflect this. This was all before I received the bolt.
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bsp212</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I sent it to you because of the 1 day turnaround I was quoted by Kerry instead of the "1 month or so" turnaround I was quoted by my smith. I don't think the problem was with the cut in the bolt but with the tolerances on the extractor itself.

Nothing fishy about it, just facts. </div></div>

Then say that!, I already explained that the 1 day turnarround was for boltknobs and that Kerry mistakenly mis spoke. 1 month is about right, obviously your smith also agreed with that. I dont undestand your agenda to throw us under the bus. I even shipped it free of charge 2nd day air for Kary's mistake.

Oh Well. Glad its working well for you, I hope you enjoy your rifle. I busted my ass to get it to you by Friday guess you cant win them all.
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

Regardless of what happens, I think its pretty standup and rare for the owner of a company to come on an internet forum and try to fix a problem instead of ignoring it like he very easily could have. This is coming from someone who owns nothing from gap. I hope you get your bolt to work.
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

I have to ask....wouldn't a phone call have been a better way of resolving this than an open forum internet whine and cheese party?

From what I've read George stood up, took the message and got you sorted as he promised.

Like you say - it's done and over...move on!
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to ask....wouldn't a phone call have been a better way of resolving this than an open forum internet whine and cheese party? </div></div>

Exactly, hidden agendas at work here I think...
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

Question:

why was it nessecary to open the bolt nose up? was the final sizing of the bolt face and nose to be left to your smith ?


In which case the extractor would have been provisionaly installed with expectant removal for further boltface/nose machining. Which would explain the roll pin sticking out.

I expect that the extractor would have been removed for this operation by your smith.

I expect that the bolt was held in a jig in the lathe for the bolt nose to be opened slightly.

could it be that a bur was created that caused the extractor to ride hard against the one side of the extractor slot,
I see this happen on Howa's that I open the bolt faces on, the bur needs to be removed. otherwise the extractor binds.

If your smith removed the extractor, machined the bolt nose / face and then re installed the extractor, he will no doubt have driven out the roll pin. and you noticed the pin sticking out after that, then who installed the pin last?

just curiouse as there has to be an absolutely logical explination.

or some one is attempting discreditation..

not saying i expect one or the other..

Pete
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

I say too many hands on one rifle to accuse anyone of anything. Chalk this up as a learning experience, patience is a virtue. Let one smith build your rifle, and you'll only have one person to blame / praise.


If you need me, I'll be swinging on the nut sack in the corner...
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question:

why was it nessecary to open the bolt nose up? was the final sizing of the bolt face and nose to be left to your smith ?


In which case the extractor would have been provisionaly installed with expectant removal for further boltface/nose machining. Which would explain the roll pin sticking out.

I expect that the extractor would have been removed for this operation by your smith.

I expect that the bolt was held in a jig in the lathe for the bolt nose to be opened slightly.

could it be that a bur was created that caused the extractor to ride hard against the one side of the extractor slot,
I see this happen on Howa's that I open the bolt faces on, the bur needs to be removed. otherwise the extractor binds.

If your smith removed the extractor, machined the bolt nose / face and then re installed the extractor, he will no doubt have driven out the roll pin. and you noticed the pin sticking out after that, then who installed the pin last?

just curiouse as there has to be an absolutely logical explination.

or some one is attempting discreditation..

not saying i expect one or the other..

Pete

</div></div>

Pete

I think you miss read the post.

The bolt nose recess of the barrel was what had to be opened up to allow the extractor room to snap over the rim, not the bolt nose itself.
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swwwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiingggggin' from the nutsack


http://i33.tinypic.com/11qtp2a.jpg


don't click that link </div></div>

If he'd quit hanging organs from the ceiling he might still have a peepee.
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I clicked the link..... Why didn't I listen???
shocked.gif
</div></div>
Ditto!!
crazy.gif
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T CLICK THE LINK
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

I don't have a dog in this fight but there is something going on here that is rather unfortunate. As a gun builder and a business owner, it is my responsibilty to ensure that the customer comes first and has total satisfaction for the money spent. BSP212 made a comment that he supports this industry not only with his money, but with his time as well. This should be obvious by his mere presence here. That benefits people like me and George and whoever else may be involved in what we do. There are numerous guys on this site, Terry Cross, Randy Cain, William Roscoe, Mike Rescigno, George Gardner, that do many great things within the industry besides build quality rifles. There's a promotion of a part of the industry that I hope isn't forgotten and that is that the customer comes first and the customer is always right. The nutsack should never have any bearing on anything and the heat, regardless of the circumstances, that the OP is taking is unfounded. Could things have been done a little differently? Probably. But there is always emotion involved. By all appearances, the OP worked at being as factual as possible. I don't doubt that the "smith" did a great job building a rifle for BSP212 and there was obvious cooperation by GAP to install an extractor in a bolt belonging to a rifle that GAP didn't build. This is good. Were there problems associated during the process and with the end result? Apparently. Does the customer deserve this? NO! As builders and businessmen we can't and shouldn't lose site of this fact or the industry and this site will go to hell in a handbasket. Let's back off the OP and take a look at the real problem. Everyone can cheer for their favorite builder, but the governing of what happens when something goes wrong should be handled in a way that improves the end result. Not in a way that promotes the continued downward spiral of a certain part of this industry. That governing has to start within the individual shops that provide the services for the membership here and within the industry and if executed properly, things like this would never make it to the populous. I understand competition as much as anyone else here, but there's no benefit to anyone when it reaches the point of diminishing returns.

Sorry for the Harlequin novel, but I hope this makes sense....
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to ask....wouldn't a phone call have been a better way of resolving this than an open forum internet whine and cheese party? </div></div>

Exactly, hidden agendas at work here I think... </div></div>
With all the respect I have for GAP and its work, it doesn't look like any hidden agendas are at play here.
Just the sum of all possible things that can go wrong in a deal with a smith
smile.gif
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

I'm not a GAP owner and I have never even spoke with george. His company made a mistake, he busted his ass to fix it, paid for return shipping. Another gunsmith had his hands on it anything could have happened. IMO george did everything reasonable to right this. There is no perfect company because there are no perfect people. What more could george have done to right this? Nothing! I disagree about the customer is always right, some times self-entitled customers just need to pull there head out of there ass.
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys please let this just Die. The Customer's rifle is now done its working properly and he is happy with it.

Amen </div></div>

I agree with George here, this can be bitched and debated until the world ends. End result customer got his rifle working right. George did what he did on his end to make it right. Let it go, personally i think this thread should have never been started
 
Re: Conclusion of GAP thread

Amen to George.

He just did a rifle for me. It was a crusader that I wanted cut down and rethreaded for a QD muzzle device for my can. He did it in LESS THEN A WEEK. and stayed in contact with me the entire time via phone.

George and the rest of GAP go above and beyond, always have for me. I appreciate them and their work they do for me!

Thanks George!