I got my budget long range set up all done, and I've gotten to stretch it out a bit to about 620 so far, but my dope sorta baffles me. Shooting a 243 win-105 amax at an average of 3025 via Retumbo and cci250s. I know shooter just gets you in the ballpark, but it's way off for me. So is JBM. Sighted in dead on at 100 yds. I'm shooting high at 620 with 8.5 MOA dialed in, 7400 ASL. 5.75 MOA was hitting at 500 at 7300 ASL. These seem WAY goofy. Is it from a hot barrel (extended strings)? Are my rings moving? Help me out...
- Thread starter TannerGun
- Start date
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
What was the program saying and what were you getting? Saying it was shooting high does not tell us much. Did you put in your BC? Temp? Barometric pressure?
What kind of scope are you running? Have you done a box to check your adjustments?
I highly doubt the program is wrong, it's either your equipment or you using the program incorrectly.
What was the program saying and what were you getting? Saying it was shooting high does not tell us much. Did you put in your BC? Temp? Barometric pressure?
What kind of scope are you running? Have you done a box to check your adjustments?
I highly doubt the program is wrong, it's either your equipment or you using the program incorrectly.
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
Everything I entered in the programs was accurate and I trust it more than me, which leads me to believe its the scope. It's a Bushnell 10x Tactical, and I'm at the bottom of my adjustment range due to Burris sig rings and a 20 minute base. I didn't do a box test. Wondering if this had an effect.
Shooter says 9.3 MOA at 620, and I shot about a foot over with 8.5, shooting very slightly downhill. My BC and MV are accurate as are the Atmospheric conditions...
Everything I entered in the programs was accurate and I trust it more than me, which leads me to believe its the scope. It's a Bushnell 10x Tactical, and I'm at the bottom of my adjustment range due to Burris sig rings and a 20 minute base. I didn't do a box test. Wondering if this had an effect.
Shooter says 9.3 MOA at 620, and I shot about a foot over with 8.5, shooting very slightly downhill. My BC and MV are accurate as are the Atmospheric conditions...
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
Stupid question but is this a mil or moa bushnell 10x?
Stupid question but is this a mil or moa bushnell 10x?
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
Are you using G1 or G7 and what value are you using?
Are you using G1 or G7 and what value are you using?
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
And, why the hell are you using Retumbo? That stuff is designed for large cases.
And, why the hell are you using Retumbo? That stuff is designed for large cases.
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
Try G7 of .252 and see if it makes a difference.
If that power works, cool, but you are probably still burning it the entire length of the barrel, or more
Try G7 of .252 and see if it makes a difference.
If that power works, cool, but you are probably still burning it the entire length of the barrel, or more
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TannerGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got my budget long range set up all done, and I've gotten to stretch it out a bit to about 620 so far, but my dope sorta baffles me. Shooting a 243 win-105 amax at an average of 3025 via Retumbo and cci250s. I know shooter just gets you in the ballpark, but it's way off for me. So is JBM. Sighted in dead on at 100 yds. I'm shooting high at 620 with 8.5 MOA dialed in, 7400 ASL. 5.75 MOA was hitting at 500 at 7300 ASL. These seem WAY goofy. Is it from a hot barrel (extended strings)? Are my rings moving? Help me out... </div></div>
well at 100% fill with Retumbo/30" barrel I only get a 2790 vel. fps. ??????????????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TannerGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got my budget long range set up all done, and I've gotten to stretch it out a bit to about 620 so far, but my dope sorta baffles me. Shooting a 243 win-105 amax at an average of 3025 via Retumbo and cci250s. I know shooter just gets you in the ballpark, but it's way off for me. So is JBM. Sighted in dead on at 100 yds. I'm shooting high at 620 with 8.5 MOA dialed in, 7400 ASL. 5.75 MOA was hitting at 500 at 7300 ASL. These seem WAY goofy. Is it from a hot barrel (extended strings)? Are my rings moving? Help me out... </div></div>
well at 100% fill with Retumbo/30" barrel I only get a 2790 vel. fps. ??????????????
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tipper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TannerGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got my budget long range set up all done, and I've gotten to stretch it out a bit to about 620 so far, but my dope sorta baffles me. Shooting a 243 win-105 amax at an average of 3025 via Retumbo and cci250s. I know shooter just gets you in the ballpark, but it's way off for me. So is JBM. Sighted in dead on at 100 yds. I'm shooting high at 620 with 8.5 MOA dialed in, 7400 ASL. 5.75 MOA was hitting at 500 at 7300 ASL. These seem WAY goofy. Is it from a hot barrel (extended strings)? Are my rings moving? Help me out... </div></div>
well at 100% fill with Retumbo/30" barrel I only get a 2790 vel. fps. ?????????????? </div></div>
I was thinking the same thing. For a standard .243, a velocity of 3025 sounds way high for a 105. Now, if it was an AI, I could see it. Are you sure your velocity is correct? I would be sure that was the case before moving any further.
My .02
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tipper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TannerGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got my budget long range set up all done, and I've gotten to stretch it out a bit to about 620 so far, but my dope sorta baffles me. Shooting a 243 win-105 amax at an average of 3025 via Retumbo and cci250s. I know shooter just gets you in the ballpark, but it's way off for me. So is JBM. Sighted in dead on at 100 yds. I'm shooting high at 620 with 8.5 MOA dialed in, 7400 ASL. 5.75 MOA was hitting at 500 at 7300 ASL. These seem WAY goofy. Is it from a hot barrel (extended strings)? Are my rings moving? Help me out... </div></div>
well at 100% fill with Retumbo/30" barrel I only get a 2790 vel. fps. ?????????????? </div></div>
I was thinking the same thing. For a standard .243, a velocity of 3025 sounds way high for a 105. Now, if it was an AI, I could see it. Are you sure your velocity is correct? I would be sure that was the case before moving any further.
My .02
John
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
What the hell I'll give you the post.
I have not tried this load, do have a 243.
Do not have Retumbo powder.
QLoad say's 51gr. 55305PSI. Vel.3028fps. @ 112% fill don't know cc on case with 24" barrel, you must have a really fast barrel.!
What the hell I'll give you the post.
I have not tried this load, do have a 243.
Do not have Retumbo powder.
QLoad say's 51gr. 55305PSI. Vel.3028fps. @ 112% fill don't know cc on case with 24" barrel, you must have a really fast barrel.!
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
No no I know where you're coming from. Small stuff like that would make a big difference, but I'm pretty confident in that chronograph. My H4350 loads ran at right at 2900, and I know of a couple guys using the same charge getting that number.
I just switched bases and rings from a 20 MOA base to a zero cant base, and I'm going to see if that makes any bit of difference. I'm sure it's not great to be at the bottom end of your elevation travel.
No no I know where you're coming from. Small stuff like that would make a big difference, but I'm pretty confident in that chronograph. My H4350 loads ran at right at 2900, and I know of a couple guys using the same charge getting that number.
I just switched bases and rings from a 20 MOA base to a zero cant base, and I'm going to see if that makes any bit of difference. I'm sure it's not great to be at the bottom end of your elevation travel.
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
Are you shooting from an incline or decline? Say... down the side of a mountain or up the side of a mountain?
I don't know your experience and knowledge level, so if you realize this will greatly impact your dope and are not doing this, or are accounting for it, then I apologize... but it's worth asking.
Are you shooting from an incline or decline? Say... down the side of a mountain or up the side of a mountain?
I don't know your experience and knowledge level, so if you realize this will greatly impact your dope and are not doing this, or are accounting for it, then I apologize... but it's worth asking.
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
Sounds to me like your elevation turret isn't giving you what it's advertised to.
Measure the adjustments on a precisely distanced target. While you're at it, make sure the reticle subtends what it is supposed to.
Sounds to me like your elevation turret isn't giving you what it's advertised to.
Measure the adjustments on a precisely distanced target. While you're at it, make sure the reticle subtends what it is supposed to.
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
You don't have to change rings to check them, just go back to 100 and check zero. A warm barrel shouldn't change POI that much. It's prolly not one thing but a combo of little things. My guess is its the info you are feeding the program. IDK where you got your BC from but Hornady has a habit of over rating their bullets.( in my experience). If your velocity is off a little, that could make a little diff. If the scope tracking is off that could make a diff. Corrialis although minor at that distance could make a diff. If you are shooting on a incline or decline that would certainly make a diff. One of the biggest (and my guess) is atmosphere input. I almost always have to go back into shooter and play with velocity, and somtimes BC to get the out put to match the actual dope. Just some of my thoughts.
You don't have to change rings to check them, just go back to 100 and check zero. A warm barrel shouldn't change POI that much. It's prolly not one thing but a combo of little things. My guess is its the info you are feeding the program. IDK where you got your BC from but Hornady has a habit of over rating their bullets.( in my experience). If your velocity is off a little, that could make a little diff. If the scope tracking is off that could make a diff. Corrialis although minor at that distance could make a diff. If you are shooting on a incline or decline that would certainly make a diff. One of the biggest (and my guess) is atmosphere input. I almost always have to go back into shooter and play with velocity, and somtimes BC to get the out put to match the actual dope. Just some of my thoughts.
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
Don't worry too much if you off a few moa from your ballistics table. Just keep shooting at a distance until you are sure you have the moa that zeroes you at that distance. Now record that MOA!
Now move out another 100 yards and repeat.
How are you measuring your distance? You need an accurate way to do that or you'll never get it right. Also, your scope needs to be on tight and right.
There are reasons why your ballistics table is different than reality. What most of us do is adjust the ballistics table to match reality. You can do this by varying the BC and/or varying the speed of the bullet.
I shoot out at CRC and have done this a million times. If you want to go with me and do it at their 1000 yd range PM me and maybe I can bring you as a guest.
Carry on!
Don't worry too much if you off a few moa from your ballistics table. Just keep shooting at a distance until you are sure you have the moa that zeroes you at that distance. Now record that MOA!
Now move out another 100 yards and repeat.
How are you measuring your distance? You need an accurate way to do that or you'll never get it right. Also, your scope needs to be on tight and right.
There are reasons why your ballistics table is different than reality. What most of us do is adjust the ballistics table to match reality. You can do this by varying the BC and/or varying the speed of the bullet.
I shoot out at CRC and have done this a million times. If you want to go with me and do it at their 1000 yd range PM me and maybe I can bring you as a guest.
Carry on!
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
Thanks for the responses guys. More and More I'm beginning to believe this is a scope issue. I'll gather dope at one time in very similar weather, and go shoot at the exact same distance and location, and it'll be off- the scope is just not tracking. I think I may pick up a SWFA SS 16x42 (be interested in buying one if anybody is selling one). It returns to zero decently, but not perfectly. I can't say I expected excellence, it's one of the Bushnell 10x Tacticals.
sniperaviator, thanks for the invite! I'm not sure where CRC is, or where you're located, but I'm about 30 minutes west of Vail.
Thanks for the responses guys. More and More I'm beginning to believe this is a scope issue. I'll gather dope at one time in very similar weather, and go shoot at the exact same distance and location, and it'll be off- the scope is just not tracking. I think I may pick up a SWFA SS 16x42 (be interested in buying one if anybody is selling one). It returns to zero decently, but not perfectly. I can't say I expected excellence, it's one of the Bushnell 10x Tacticals.
sniperaviator, thanks for the invite! I'm not sure where CRC is, or where you're located, but I'm about 30 minutes west of Vail.
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TannerGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll gather dope at one time in very similar weather, and go shoot at the exact same distance and location, and it'll be off- the scope is just not tracking. </div></div>
I'm assuming you mean off a significant amount. It's not unheard of to have your zero shift between lots of ammunition, or conditions, but it is almost always a fairly small amount. If it's a significant amount, that is 100% your problem; no doubt about it.
For future reference, it's a good idea to run a box test; don't just use an 8.5x11 sheet- get like a 4'x4' sheet of paper, measure out your points and run a test with it. This will at least give you some idea of how your scope tracks; prevent you from chasing your dope and zero, and save you a bunch of time and headache.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TannerGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll gather dope at one time in very similar weather, and go shoot at the exact same distance and location, and it'll be off- the scope is just not tracking. </div></div>
I'm assuming you mean off a significant amount. It's not unheard of to have your zero shift between lots of ammunition, or conditions, but it is almost always a fairly small amount. If it's a significant amount, that is 100% your problem; no doubt about it.
For future reference, it's a good idea to run a box test; don't just use an 8.5x11 sheet- get like a 4'x4' sheet of paper, measure out your points and run a test with it. This will at least give you some idea of how your scope tracks; prevent you from chasing your dope and zero, and save you a bunch of time and headache.
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
The CRC range is an hour east of Denver.
If you are looking for a reliable, inexpensive scope that will shoot out to 1000+ yards a Nikon Buckmaster 3x-9 will work. I know I have two of them. $229 at midway. Just make sure you have enough vertical adjustment. The Bucky's have 80moa of total vertical adjustment which is plenty. I have shot out to 1200 yards with one of mine.
The CRC range is an hour east of Denver.
If you are looking for a reliable, inexpensive scope that will shoot out to 1000+ yards a Nikon Buckmaster 3x-9 will work. I know I have two of them. $229 at midway. Just make sure you have enough vertical adjustment. The Bucky's have 80moa of total vertical adjustment which is plenty. I have shot out to 1200 yards with one of mine.
Re: Confusing DOPE... Help a new guy.
Get a yardstick. Mount it perfectly vertical at 100 yards.
Shoot a five round group just to the side at the 0 mark.
Dial in 35.25 moa and aim at the same spot, shoot another five round group.
You should be right at the 36" mark on the yardstick, if not, you have a scope issue.
Get a yardstick. Mount it perfectly vertical at 100 yards.
Shoot a five round group just to the side at the 0 mark.
Dial in 35.25 moa and aim at the same spot, shoot another five round group.
You should be right at the 36" mark on the yardstick, if not, you have a scope issue.
