This will never be 100% correct and in the perfect "gun language". Add your feedback to this thread and I'll update the spreadsheet.
Reload to see updates. Link to see full spreadsheet on Google Sheets.
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- Thread starter HousePlant
- Start date
This will never be 100% correct and in the perfect "gun language". Add your feedback to this thread and I'll update the spreadsheet.
Reload to see updates. Link to see full spreadsheet on Google Sheets.
ARC, Nucleus gen1, Push feed (fight me on this one), mechanical ejector (not mauser style), ARC extractor, direct trigger, bolt on optic rail, non-integral lug, I think 2lb 1oz.
What are the different types of "ejectors" and "extractors"? I'll need to label these proper-like.
If you’re going to put weight then you need to specify action length and bolt face I suppose
I'm only going to do short actions converted to ounces. Don't know anyone using anything but in PRS anymore.
Bolt nose profile (stepped/cone)
Tennon length & thread pitch dia
Footprint
Tennon length & thread pitch dia
Footprint
Not getting that specific. 95% of the time, if it's integrated, it's 20 MOA.
Think of it as a table, then.
I have ARC Nucleus 1.0, Archimedes, and Mausingfield M7 actions. Here's the corrections I'd like to suggest:
The ejector for all three is a mechanical pivoting ejector in the receiver like the 1903 Springfield.
The Nucleus and Archimedes are claw, controlled feed extractors, not "semi-controlled" in my experience. If your rifle is set up properly, the cartridge rim is under the claw extractor as soon as it comes out of the magazine.
The Mausingfield is a 2 lug bolt head with toroidal locking lugs.
Also the M7 Mausingfield closed top version has a keyed scope rail that's anchored by 5 screws on top, but the open top version has a scope rail anchored by 4 screws on the side of the rail.
Tthe Archimedes, besides having very powerful extraction, has a light bolt lift for a 3 lug action because the bolt rotation is only cocking the striker, not doing the primary extraction also.
Nice chart, thanks for putting it together.
The ejector for all three is a mechanical pivoting ejector in the receiver like the 1903 Springfield.
The Nucleus and Archimedes are claw, controlled feed extractors, not "semi-controlled" in my experience. If your rifle is set up properly, the cartridge rim is under the claw extractor as soon as it comes out of the magazine.
The Mausingfield is a 2 lug bolt head with toroidal locking lugs.
Also the M7 Mausingfield closed top version has a keyed scope rail that's anchored by 5 screws on top, but the open top version has a scope rail anchored by 4 screws on the side of the rail.
Tthe Archimedes, besides having very powerful extraction, has a light bolt lift for a 3 lug action because the bolt rotation is only cocking the striker, not doing the primary extraction also.
Nice chart, thanks for putting it together.
Extractors:
claw (Mauser Type)
Sako type
M-16 type
Slide type
Ejectors:
Plunger type (single/dual)
Mechanical (Reciever Mounted)
There may be something missing but that's mostly what I see. There is the spring steel extractors in 700s but I wouldn't worry about those.
claw (Mauser Type)
Sako type
M-16 type
Slide type
Ejectors:
Plunger type (single/dual)
Mechanical (Reciever Mounted)
There may be something missing but that's mostly what I see. There is the spring steel extractors in 700s but I wouldn't worry about those.
I'm sticking with "semi-controlled" because it is not a traditional controlled-round feed design like the, for example, Montana Rifle Company action.
We can debate that one forever... at least I noted its not just push!
It’s still not a semi-controlled anything. “Non-traditional” doesn’t make it something it isn’t.I'm sticking with "semi-controlled" because it is not a traditional controlled-round feed design like the, for example, Montana Rifle Company action.
We can debate that one forever... at least I noted its not just push!
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NM.
Not getting into that in this list. The cheapest is the MAC (if you can get one), the second cheapest is the Stiller or ARC Nucleus... of the actions I know of.
Per Arc website
Snaps right over the cartridge when single feeding. There is no downside to controlled round feed.
Extractor
Claw-type extractor with controlled round feed. Secure and large contact area grips the cartridge.Snaps right over the cartridge when single feeding. There is no downside to controlled round feed.
For extractors you can add clip type for the shitty standard rem 700 extractor.
Older Kelbly actions featured sliding type extractors. Newer ones feature Sako style ones though they are of somewhat modified geometry to make sure they stay retained in the event of an over-pressure. Kelbly's have never had anything I would term as "claw" extractors. The term "claw" generally refers to and extractor that does not rotate with the bolt such as on a Mauser. This type of extractor has a larger purchase for removing stuck cases but also results in a bolt that provides less case head support. I believe Kelbly's are the only true push feed actions with mechanical ejectors. It's one of my favorite features about them.
You should also add a note for the threaded trigger pins on a Terminus. This is really more like a hanger system than the awful hammered in standard 700 pin system. It is a big upgrade to be able to remove the trigger without having to hammer away at your action whether this is with a hanger or Terminus threaded pin system. Terminus threaded system probably has the added benifit over a hanger system of being a bit more robust though it would have the disadvantage of not being able to adjust the rifles timing via the hanger to fit with a finicky trigger. I believe Terminus actions are also plunger eject and not mechanical.
I belive BAT Igniter features an M16 style extractor. It certainly does not have a claw type.
Older Kelbly actions featured sliding type extractors. Newer ones feature Sako style ones though they are of somewhat modified geometry to make sure they stay retained in the event of an over-pressure. Kelbly's have never had anything I would term as "claw" extractors. The term "claw" generally refers to and extractor that does not rotate with the bolt such as on a Mauser. This type of extractor has a larger purchase for removing stuck cases but also results in a bolt that provides less case head support. I believe Kelbly's are the only true push feed actions with mechanical ejectors. It's one of my favorite features about them.
You should also add a note for the threaded trigger pins on a Terminus. This is really more like a hanger system than the awful hammered in standard 700 pin system. It is a big upgrade to be able to remove the trigger without having to hammer away at your action whether this is with a hanger or Terminus threaded pin system. Terminus threaded system probably has the added benifit over a hanger system of being a bit more robust though it would have the disadvantage of not being able to adjust the rifles timing via the hanger to fit with a finicky trigger. I believe Terminus actions are also plunger eject and not mechanical.
I belive BAT Igniter features an M16 style extractor. It certainly does not have a claw type.
I have a note about the Terminus threaded trigger pins already.
What I mean by claw is basically... just a claw -- the manufacturer didn't specify which type/heritage. Just... a claw. They're all claws of some sort.
What I mean by claw is basically... just a claw -- the manufacturer didn't specify which type/heritage. Just... a claw. They're all claws of some sort.
Okay, fine! Don't hate me for what I did now.
Now you’re just changing common terms used to describe specific types of extractors to whatever you want.
You make a list. You ask for help with the list. You get help with the list. Then you argue your justifications about why you’re wrong instead of just saying thank you and editing the list. It’s that same mentality that keeps me from training a new guy at work, and instead I’m just leaving.
Calm down. Many of the manufacturers do not overtly specific the extractor design and a large percentage of them don't even show the damn bolt head in their pictures and frankly I'm not sure I can tell the difference reliably between a Sako and M16 extractor, for example. The Kelbly's actions listed - as far as I can tell - use a mechanical extractor design (not a spring-loaded plunger) that is within the bolt (vs. the more traditional mechanical design which is mounted, pivoting or not, on the receiver and a cutout is milled into the bolt).
If you or anyone want to run down the list and specifically tell me which action and the name of it's claw design, I'll welcome that. Not going to be right 100% of the time but I also don't want to be adding unnecessary layers of information when 100% of these actions are going to extract 99% of cases, even hot loads. Otherwise, I have been going with generic "Claw (nondescript)" (clue: read the word in parenthesis).
I'm not necessarily listing ONLY Rem700s. The Kelby's Black Bear is a flat bottom, much like an F-class action these days.
I was simply not aware of the Badger action. Can you buy the AI action separately? Intended to be a list of custom actions you can buy alone... not included with the rest of the rifle. I'll add the Badger M2013 Standard.
I had heard you can now order an AI action separately if you want to. The Badger is nearly identical to the Tempest, just designed by Badger, two recoil lugs and flat bottom. I dont mind flat bottoms
. Every extractor is mechanical, and none are mounted in a receiver.
The Mausingfield (correct spelling) and Defiance controlled round feed Deviant use traditional claw extractors. The Nucleus and Archimedes are claws that break slightly with tradition.
Only actions I can buy brand new right now. So the ARC Nucleus Gen1... not in the list. Can't buy it right now brand new from ARC.
And I'm glad the current gen GAP Templar has a M16 extractor. Why they'd put a standard 700 style on a custom action that cost that much... wow.
Well it was like 15 years ago so not what people are expecting today with the large amounts of options. Not many back then.
Okay, they're all mechanical. So is a car engine.
But some ejectors don't use any spring-loaded plunger. Those are what I refer to as mechanical in this list and what most manufactures who claim "mechanical ejector" mean: a piece of metal the brass runs into when you pull out the bolt. Those pieces of metal - being very simplistic here - are mounted to the receiver itself, not the bolt (except in the case of Kelbly's in-bolt mechanical design). I also consider mechanical to not put any pressure on the brass when chambered (like Kelbly's design, like all the traditional mechanical on receiver designs). Gotta differentiate somehow.
Well now I've confused myself! Just be civil. If the listed feature has a proper name that isn't getting into ridiculous detail... just say it clearly without the lecture. I'm not a damn 75 year old gunsmith that's been working on guns since cars had to be hand spun to start. Just... be cool.
Maybe that was a typo but the badger mimics the AI, and the tempest is a whole different animal. The tempest is round bottom with one lug.I had heard you can now order an AI action separately if you want to. The Badger is nearly identical to the Tempest, just designed by Badger, two recoil lugs and flat bottom. I dont mind flat bottoms
Just sayin, that's the official word. If people have a problem with that terminology take it up with ARC.
No, I was intentional in my post I was pointing out that the Tempest is the same action as the Badger with minor differences that you note.
I own both. They are both made by Horizon Machine. They are the same design just one is round body and another is flat bottom.
No, the Havak is Seekin's own design. Very different styling than Mac Bros/Horizon Machine (they are the same company).
Got it.
Already there.
Lone peak Razor. Basically a round fuzion (Fuzion is multi-flat) with a bolt on pic rail. Lug is integral. Same bolt extractor/ejector configuration. Comes nitrided.
Defiance Anti should go on there too. Same extractor/ejector as any standard defiance. Bolt on two piece mounts.
Defiance Anti-x has same features but adds integral 20 moa split pic rail.
Both anti’s are 416R receiver, with 4340 bolts. Can be had natural/polished or nitrided.
Defiance Anti should go on there too. Same extractor/ejector as any standard defiance. Bolt on two piece mounts.
Defiance Anti-x has same features but adds integral 20 moa split pic rail.
Both anti’s are 416R receiver, with 4340 bolts. Can be had natural/polished or nitrided.
The Falkor comes with a freakin case!?! Alright... this is getting out of hand. I need one.
Added Razor. Sticking to tactical-intent actions. The Definance Anti is more tuned to a hunting rifle (weight reduction). I suppose you could go with the Anti for an NRL hunter competition rifle, though. But... I'm just cutting this off at actions that are specifically designed to reduce weight.
No. It comes with a "snazzy hard case". In red... for when you want to walk around with a mini-briefcase containing your rifle action sans barrel.
I had heard you can now order an AI action separately if you want to. The Badger is nearly identical to the Tempest, just designed by Badger, two recoil lugs and flat bottom. I dont mind flat bottoms
When AI has a specific page for you to order their action, I'll add it. I can't find that page. And honestly... why buy just the AI action? To me that's kind of one of those... you buy the entire rifle ones. Does anyone actually want to buy JUST an AI action? They aren't that great... not the ones I've operated.
FWIW I have an Impact 737R. After making this list, it almost feels outdated in a way. But having prefits available on every corner of the earth... nice.
