New guy here. I am going to be getting a bolt gun in a few months and am debating what magnification range will be best for my needs. I am new to bolt action guns and anything that will be effective past 400 yards. After looking through the shorty rifle thread, I am looking at getting a Ruger American Gen 2 Ranch in 6.5 creedmoor if it is available at that time. It is going to be mainly used for coyotes and deer with the occasional plinking out to 1000 yards. I have a relative that is upgrading and will sell me a Burris XTR II 5-25 for $500 and eurooptic has the 3-15 for the same price at the moment. Would the 5-25 be too much for my needs or will the 3-15 leave me wanting for more?
- Thread starter bhux
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For coyotes I would lean pretty heavy toward the 3-15, that mag range is also plenty to work out to 1k and beyond for steel work.
Coyotes are moving targets and big field of view is a big help especially if you have multiple coyotes coming in.
For steel shooting I rarely go up to 20x usually I am between 12-16 ish during matches. I use the higher magnification for sighting in only.
Coyotes are moving targets and big field of view is a big help especially if you have multiple coyotes coming in.
For steel shooting I rarely go up to 20x usually I am between 12-16 ish during matches. I use the higher magnification for sighting in only.
We have another recent thread about what actual magnification is needed. Out to 400 yards, you might not ever go above 10x. The YouTube channel West Desert Shooter talks about this. Even at 1,000' yards, he is only at 16x.
Going anymore puts him in too much mirage and wavering. However, a 25X might help in seeing some details or ranging with the reticle. I happent to like 5-25 for the eyebox and eye relief. But I usually not at 25x.
That being said, go for the comfort of eyebox and eye relief and 15x is probably going to be okay, even for 400 yards shots at game. So, then, it boils down to glass quality, reticle, and comfort to your eye. Your eye is different than anyone else's.
Going anymore puts him in too much mirage and wavering. However, a 25X might help in seeing some details or ranging with the reticle. I happent to like 5-25 for the eyebox and eye relief. But I usually not at 25x.
That being said, go for the comfort of eyebox and eye relief and 15x is probably going to be okay, even for 400 yards shots at game. So, then, it boils down to glass quality, reticle, and comfort to your eye. Your eye is different than anyone else's.
I had the chance to look through the 5-25 when I was at his house and I was happy with how the glass was. It was much better than anything that I have had my hands on. This will be my first step to mid to high magnification. My previous experience is with old style fixed 4x on .22s and an lpvo on my AR. My main concern with the 3-15 is image at the 10-15x not being as clear as the same magnification on the 5-25. From what I have been able to read, it seems like the glass performs better around the middle of the magnification range than it does towards the top end
In general I have found that middle of the range is usually the most forgiving. I guess do you prioritize the hunting aspect or target shooting aspect more? Both options will work for both hunting and target shooting but 3-15 I feel is better for hunting and 5-25 better for targets
That is also a good point with any scope that the extreme end of magnification might have some visual acuity problems but if you are in the middle of whatever range, then that helps.
I have 5-25 because it appeals to my eye and I just about never need to have it on 25x.
~$500 for an XTR II isn't a bad price, and 5-25 is a sweet spot for the type of shooting you'll be doing. Besides, if you decide to move up from the XTR II later, your relative has already taken the price hit - you would likely be able to sell it for the same that you bought it for.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 8,645
- 17,544
Dude......
The guy is just starting out. Let's just overcomplicate his decision.
My brother in law does thermal hunting and I would like to get into that eventually but with a baby on the way, that will be out of the budget for a while
- Nov 3, 2010
- 8,645
- 17,544
Muh bad. Most guys come here talking yote hunting and within a few months start talking night hunting. I figured there would be a surplus of Gen 1 Steiner thermals hitting the market soon as well, a lot of guys will probably be in the market sooner than they think.
As to the mag question. I have never been in a situation where I asked for less low end mag………yet. As stated, you don’t have to use max mag all the time, but it is nice to have the availability.
For coyote hunting in open spaces and target shooting out to 1000, I see no reason to go with a 3-15 over a 5-25 unless the larger size and extra weight of the 5-25 are an issue for you. The only time I ever use anything under about 6-8x is when I'm hunting in thick woods where I can't see more than 50 yards anyway (and in those cases I'm usually opting for my 45/70 with a fixed 2.5x). While I might not use more than 15x a ton either, there are times where it's useful to have more.
I've been hunting/shooting for 49 years, and as my eyes get older I need and want more magnification. Have a 5-25 now and rarely come off the top end while hunting deer and varmints.
I agree, as I get older my eyes need more help and the mag collar seems to stay buried at the top of what ever I am using.
I would rather have a 4-16x with good glass/resolution over a 5-25x with poor clarity for anything other than playing around.
Not sure why you can't have both. Most companies price by quality not power (small deltas but not significant), pick the power you need and optical quality you want.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that they're mutually exclusive. Was really trying to get across that clarity beats top-end magnification (to a certain extent, of course).
Oh I totally agree, my ZCO 527 is easier to use than my NF ATCAR 7-35s. it is clear and bright (not suggesting you need to spend that much)
have you looked through that 5-25 in the field during low light?
I think the XTR II is a good scope for the money, especially the price you're getting it for.
I have a 4-20 that I wish that I never bought.
I have used an older 3-15 that I think is pretty dandy, @FuhQ has had good success with fairly recent manufacture 5-25 XTR II's.
You would be hard pressed to get an equivalent, new scope for that price.
Personaly, I would opt for the 3-15 as the wider field of view on low power is helpful in a hunting situation, but many folks make 5x work.
There is another option in your price bracket, that is the Athlon Midas HMR 2.5-15, it is a sfp scope and is only available in moa/moa but they are dandy scopes with good glass and a well designed reticle. The turrets are capped.
@gr8fuldoug has them on sale now.
I think the XTR II is a good scope for the money, especially the price you're getting it for.
I have a 4-20 that I wish that I never bought.
I have used an older 3-15 that I think is pretty dandy, @FuhQ has had good success with fairly recent manufacture 5-25 XTR II's.
You would be hard pressed to get an equivalent, new scope for that price.
Personaly, I would opt for the 3-15 as the wider field of view on low power is helpful in a hunting situation, but many folks make 5x work.
There is another option in your price bracket, that is the Athlon Midas HMR 2.5-15, it is a sfp scope and is only available in moa/moa but they are dandy scopes with good glass and a well designed reticle. The turrets are capped.
@gr8fuldoug has them on sale now.
I haven't looked through it in the lowlight but that seems to be one of the main complaints of the scope. The gun that he has it on has seen a mix of hunting and competition use. He also has a 4-20 that he is keeping. The times I have been coyote hunting, we were either taking shots 250 and further or inside of 50 yds. There are quite a few shot opportunities further than that but I am not comfortable with my current AR set to take anything ethically past that 250 mark. I would more than likely keep the 5-25 set around 12x pretty all the time other than plinking at distance and sighting in.have you looked through that 5-25 in the field during low light?
I think the XTR II is a good scope for the money, especially the price you're getting it for.
I have a 4-20 that I wish that I never bought.
I have used an older 3-15 that I think is pretty dandy, @FuhQ has had good success with fairly recent manufacture 5-25 XTR II's.
You would be hard pressed to get an equivalent, new scope for that price.
Personaly, I would opt for the 3-15 as the wider field of view on low power is helpful in a hunting situation, but many folks make 5x work.
There is another option in your price bracket, that is the Athlon Midas HMR 2.5-15, it is a sfp scope and is only available in moa/moa but they are dandy scopes with good glass and a well designed reticle. The turrets are capped.
@gr8fuldoug has them on sale now.
EuroOptic has the NEW 5-25x50’s on sale for like $649. The glass on the newer XTR-II’s is better than the old ones. I’d spend the $150 and get a brand new one…
Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR II 5-25x50 Illum SCR Mil Scope 201051
Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR II 5-25x50 SCR Mil Scope 201051 | Only at EuroOptic.com!
This is a very good point. Your aperture and focal length are going to determine your speed (optics is literally focal length / ap = f). The more magnification you give something, the longer the focal length gets, reducing reducing light transmission.
The main thing I look for in hunting scopes is:
- A good reticle (same on both scopes)
- Light transmission (better on the x15)
- Capability for PID (fine on both)
- Weight (x15 is lighter)
Ideally, I get a scope that has a decent tree, and just enough focal length so that I can PID a yote vs some farm dog running around, packaged in something that doesn't weight as much as my Razor Gen III. An x15 scope you'll be able to PID just fine out to 400 and beyond. Both the 15 and the 25 are 34 mil tubes, the 15 weighs less and will have better light transmission. I'm also a big fan of having a 2 to 3 low power, just gives a really nice FoV for scouting.
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